Adam Schefter ESPN.com : Redskins to start McCoy over RG III

[Elephant]

Gruden actually has a poor history with qbs...this year, his first failure was Cousins.

I hope that doesn't continue to happen.

Where do you get this? He was wildly successful with Andy Dalton!

 

[Gulf Coast Redskin]

Griffin is "healthy" again so he starts. I thoroughly believe that is not Gruden's decision. I believe Gruden bit the bullet, handled things in the media and let RG3 hang himself on the field.

I don't believe this. He's a first year HC & wants to do whatever is necessary to succeed. Whether he was really leaned on or not remains to seen (& heard), but as of right now, with the FO supporting Gruden's decision to bench RG3, it would seem that your theory is off base.

Look, I know people are convinced that Snyder is the devil, but if he felt the need to sell the farm for a kid out of college to sell tickets, then he doesn't know this fanbase at all. And being that he is part of this fanbase, I find it difficult to swallow that his only concern is butts in the seats. Especially considering that this is routinely one of the most loyal & financially supportive fanbases in the League & have been for decades.

I truly think that Snyder is a fan & wants to win & will do whatever he thinks is necessary to get those wins. But therein lies the problem. It would be no different than one of us owning the team & doing what we felt was necessary & not being interested in what other people who think contrarily believe the team needs.

That said, Gruden's concern is winning games. I think, based on what I've seen & read, I would say that the Snyder camp is in Gruden's corner & giving him a lot of freedom to move around & do whatever is necessary to succeed. I don't believe that Snyder has leaned on Gruden about anything other than winning. Selling tickets? I don't think that has ever really been a major concern for Snyder, despite popular belief.

 

[Win4us]

So is there any chance coach means it that Griff MAY be in future plans?

 

[Primus Porcus]

So is there any chance coach means it that Griff MAY be in future plans?

Yes, in the plans to get draft picks to develop the future of the team..

I still in my heart hope I'm wrong. I dont think Gruden will write him off completely this year. If Griffin can take steps in the right direction, I hope Gruden doesn't close the door on ANYONE completely.

 

[Elephant]

I don't believe this. He's a first year HC & wants to do whatever is necessary to succeed. Whether he was really leaned on or not remains to seen (& heard), but as of right now, with the FO supporting Gruden's decision to bench RG3, it would seem that your theory is off base.

See but you're missing the entire theory...I believe Gruden had to let it play out on the field so the higher ups would finally support him.

Look, I know people are convinced that Snyder is the devil, but if he felt the need to sell the farm for a kid out of college to sell tickets, then he doesn't know this fanbase at all. And being that he is part of this fanbase, I find it difficult to swallow that his only concern is butts in the seats. Especially considering that this is routinely one of the most loyal & financially supportive fanbases in the League & have been for decades.

I didn't say his only concern was butts in the seat...it's not an all or nothing propostion. However, his goal is the bottom line in this business and if he is successful in the bottom line with a poor product on the field, what on earth makes anyone think he'll change his way of running this organization. And nowhere did I say Snyder was the devil...simply he is the one constant throughout the last 15 years of sub-mediocrity.

I truly think that Snyder is a fan & wants to win & will do whatever he thinks is necessary to get those wins. But therein lies the problem. It would be no different than one of us owning the team & doing what we felt was necessary & not being interested in what other people who think contrarily believe the team needs.

I truly believe Snyder is a fan of the Redskins too, unfortunately, I think he is a bigger fan of himself and his control of the team. He needs to learn some valuable lessons from the teams that succeed...the owners with the most success do not micro manage.

That said, Gruden's concern is winning games. I think, based on what I've seen & read, I would say that the Snyder camp is in Gruden's corner & giving him a lot of freedom to move around & do whatever is necessary to succeed. I don't believe that Snyder has leaned on Gruden about anything other than winning. Selling tickets? I don't think that has ever really been a major concern for Snyder, despite popular belief.

If you really doubt Snyder's desire to sell tickets is not a major concern, then I am going to simply disagree. I have no idea how you see it that way.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

I truly think that Snyder is a fan & wants to win & will do whatever he thinks is necessary to get those wins. But therein lies the problem. It would be no different than one of us owning the team & doing what we felt was necessary & not being interested in what other people who think contrarily believe the team needs.

I wholeheartedly agree that this is the biggest problem with Snyder. He is too much of a fan and thinks too irrationally like a fan. I can see him thinking and saying the same things after each game that many on here say. It's also what drives his love and admiration for the superstars. You can be all those things as a fan, but as an owner you have a greater responsibility. Until he gets that or until he has someone who can stand up to him, things will still be messed up.

 

[Boone]

Where do you get this? He was wildly successful with Andy Dalton!

'Wildly successful'?? Mildly successful maybe . Dalton improved (as did the Cincy offense) 3 straight seasons under Gruden. But let's not get carried away...

I'm hopeful our offense will have the same trajectory - it'll certainly be hard not to improve from year one!

 

[Elephant]

'Wildly successful'?? Mildly successful maybe . Dalton improved (as did the Cincy offense) 3 straight seasons under Gruden. But let's not get carried away...

I'm hopeful our offense will have the same trajectory - it'll certainly be hard not to improve from year one!

That is a big success considering that regression we've sen in Dalton in just one year. Look, he hasn't plummeted into an abyss, but he is not the QB he was under Gruden's tutelage. Dalton was no slouch, I'd kinda hoped he'd end up here as a project. But as a rookie he was very successful, and got better each year. Wildly may be a little exaggerated, but his success is more than mild.

 

[Boone]

I was impressed with what Gruden did with the Cincy offense, Dalton included. That's one of the reasons I was excited at him being Snyder's choice. I haven't seen much to be excited about since though - except he does run a pretty entertaining press conference.

 

[Win4us]

Yes, in the plans to get draft picks to develop the future of the team..

I still in my heart hope I'm wrong. I dont think Gruden will write him off completely this year. If Griffin can take steps in the right direction, I hope Gruden doesn't close the door on ANYONE completely.

Yeah odds definitely seem against BG3 staying in maroon & black though stranger things have happened. After the ridiculous media coverage I can't see the team getting more than a 5th, and that's on the generous side.

Always possible a "time-out" really is all that is needed to get the old Griff back. Probably be on another squad IF it happens tho.

 

[Nobody]

I know the fans wanted RG3, and I was one of them. I can forgive the error. But our scouting department is clearly fatally inept.

Are you serious? When the hell did we get a scouting department?

 

[McD5]

You're not helping McD. You don't remember the anger after the Seattle game? Selective memory much? Hell, Elephant was mad, as mad as the rest of us even.

The fact that you can't or won't admit Gruden's fault in this predicament says more about you than anything, imo.

Shanahan ruined the kid. Gruden was brought in to help. He has failed. There is plenty of blame to go around, and Gruden definitely deserves a large portion. Griffin has regressed under his "expert tutelage".

I've never been more angry in my life as a fan than I was in the second half of that Seattle game. I was livid. When halftime came the discussion in my house was 100% about how Kirk would look after halftime.

When RG3 came back into the game my house was stunned in silence. I don't think a single word, aside from maybe an "are you f'n kidding me?" was muttered under someone's breath. Forget the final score, that was completely secondary.

If I were RG3's father, I would have literally walked down to that locker room after the game, have beaten the living hell out of Shanahan until I was pulled off of him, and I would have gladly been arrested. No question about it.

I remember coming onto the board after that game and I saw a few people in disbelief, but I didn't see widespread realization about what we had likely just witnessed.

I remember typing something to the effect of "that's the stupidest coaching decision I've ever seen in my life" but didn't sense the outrage and despair I was feeling. Forget the stupid playoff loss. Mike Shanahan, who always thinks about Mike Shanahan, had likely just destroyed our team for the next five years.

The next offseason I watched mostly quietly as others got hyped for the documentary and what was to come. 2 ACL's, seriously? Who recovers from that and possibly plays again without losing a permanent step against the top football competition on earth?

In the meantime, Shanahan didn't even fly down to RG3's hospital bed, he lied about the doctor clearing him, and then he sabatoged the team in the media week after week and snuck off with bags of cash.

If people want to point fingers, there's your target.

Now we have a coach drawing up plays specifically for the QB's success and getting multiple WRs open on many plays. That's not working. There are other players that want to win. The other option is to let a slower RG3 run the r/o and hope he survives.

 

[stevenaa]

RG hasn't passed the eye test for any fundamentals from the pocket. 2012 was an aberration. A unique season and situation. The hard truth is you can't have a QB 3 years in be this raw in fundamentals. Either he isn't capable of grasping it or he hasn't put in the proper time in the classroom. Either is untenable and you really can't continue down the path when evidence points to it not working. The offense looks woefully different when RG is at the helm. This team is a hot mess all the way around. Online blows. Sucks to be a QB here. But that isn't why RG hasn't picked up the basics.

 

[SNF]

RG hasn't passed the eye test for any fundamentals from the pocket. 2012 was an aberration. A unique season and situation. The hard truth is you can't have a QB 3 years in be this raw in fundamentals. Either he isn't capable of grasping it or he hasn't put in the proper time in the classroom. Either is untenable and you really can't continue down the path when evidence points to it not working. The offense looks woefully different when RG is at the helm. This team is a hot mess all the way around. Online blows. Sucks to be a QB here. But that isn't why RG hasn't picked up the basics.

Steve Young provides some answers to that based on his own experience.

Steve Young provided blueprint for Robert Griffin III - Washington Redskins Blog - ESPN

John Keim | ESPN.com

Steve Young understands the transition. He also understands the scrutiny – and failure.

Tampa Bay selected Young with the first overall pick in the 1985 NFL Supplemental Draft, after he played one season in the USFL. He offered hope then frustration as, in his 19 games as a starting quarterback, Tampa Bay went 3-16 as he threw for 11 touchdowns, 21 interceptions and spent a lot of time running instead of throwing. It was a lot more than just the quarterback.

Still, a career looked dead. Until the 49ers revived Young, putting him around better talent and better coaching. Then, after four years mostly waiting on the bench, he embarked on a Hall of Fame career.

That doesn’t mean Washington Redskins quarterback Robert Griffin III will follow the same path. But it does mean Young provided a blueprint for second chances. It started with understanding how to operate in the pocket.

“If you exhaust every play out of the pocket, what happens is you find more opportunities,” Young said. “I can’t tell you how many times I left something on the table because I thought, 'I’m going, this is crazy.’ And that’s where the mastery comes in. To exhaust it all means to understand it all, to know every element of the responsibility and why they’re moving. It’s reflexive. I have a reflexive response to what’s happening.”

Young said working with Sid Gilman and Mike Shanahan and Bill Walsh helped change his mindset. He would still run on occasion, but he became more of a pocket passer.

It’s what Griffin must do if he wants to regain the starting job and be an effective quarterback in the future. It might take him a few offseasons working in this area to achieve that goal.

"It’s hard," Young said. "You’re under the gun. I remember thinking, 'I have to make a career.' I’d go in and have to play and I was like, 'I don’t care, this ball has to move.'"

Young knows the importance of adopting that mindset rather than just taking off and running.

"You end up not progressing in what can help you do it in 10 years because of what you can do today," he said. "That’s the hard part. Peyton Manning has to do it this way because he’s not going anywhere. For him, it’s either you get this down immediately or you’re done. Guys that can move around, you can kind of make a career of it."

More at link if you haven't read it already ...

 

[McD5]

That's an awesome article. It's definitely a long process, but it paid off huge for him.

"What I call in the huddle, I want that play run and I want it delivered, and I want it delivered as you take a shot to the chin," Young said Walsh would tell him. "If we get that ball delivered to Jerry [Rice] or Brent [Jones] and we’re completing it and moving on and consistently doing stuff out of the huddle, it will make us champions. If you run around and make plays, you’ll never make enough plays for us to be great. There are always people who would be open or could have been open if you hung in there. There’s a negative effect when you run around without exhausting everything that happens with the play call."

 

[McD5]

If you say so.

tr1, if the impossible happens in your eyes this weekend, and we score 35 points, and the o-line gives up zero, or only one sack...then what?

 

[Kel Varnsen]

Did anyone happen to watch the Eagles beat the pukes yesterday?

Chip Kelley made Mark Sanchez look like a friggin' option quarterback. I don't remember how many of his passes were out of the pocket on rolls. And, he faked the run almost on every play.

This is Mark Friggin' Sanchez!

Imagine RG3 in that offense. It would be 10 times more potent.

We made a horrible mistake in choosing Gruden. The game has evolved, and his offense is a bit of a turd with today's rules.

We're destined to mediocrity because we have a mediocre organization from top to bottom.

My dad has never been a big RG3 fan. But this week, he said how RG3 needs a coach like Chip Kelly who would design an offense around him. I'd rather see RG3 find a coach like that in the AFC. I especially don't want to see that in the NFC east.

 

[TomE]

Of course all of this assumes that Griff himself wants to play in a scheme 'designed' for his attributes.

In an ideal world, Griff becomes one of the best at doing everything. A threat from the pocket as well as out of it.

Both Sanchez and Young had to move on from their original teams before that something 'clicked' and near as I can tell, both also benefited by having decent talent around them on subsequent teams.

Could be that Griff moves on and lights it up, don't know, but as has been shown that sometimes a fresh start benefits the player and allows for fulfillment of more reasonable expectations.

Po' little ol' Colt McCoy sits in one of those situations right now, put out to pasture after expectations in Cleveland, kicked around and now starting with a group of better talent in a system he claims he likes.

Championship!!

 

[micks113]

If you say so.

tr1, if the impossible happens in your eyes this weekend, and we score 35 points, and the o-line gives up zero, or only one sack...then what?

bwa ha ha, I guess he will find something else to bicch about. He doesn't give one once of credit to Colt for beating Dallas. None. Yet he fails to acknowledge that Colt ran exactly the playbook Gruden implemented, and won. So if you don't give Colt credit, by definition you must give Gruden credit. I think tr1 lost his cred.

There is no doubt this team will get carved up against the Colts. But the real interest is how Gruden will game plan for the Colts defense with McCoy. Therein lies the interest in this game. Win or lose, it will be more entertaining Redskins football than we've had thus far over two years. At least it will be watchable.

 

[Goaldeje]

Most people who watched the Cowboys game saw the Cowboys unwilling to change their offense to counter what our defense was doing. Haz seems to have a good read on Dallas for whatever reason, and he continued that trend, though the Garrett playcalling was kind of mind-blowingly bad (not that I'm complaining).

I don't think we will see the same thing this weekend. If our defense can contain Luck & Co., I will be exceptionally pleased and will admit I'm wrong, but Luck has been putting up absurd numbers all season against defenses almost universally regarded as superior to ours. Colt is going to have to score 35+ to be in this game, and I don't see that happening. I hope I'm wrong, but he wasn't asked to do too much against Dallas, because our D stepped up. It could happen again, but I think given our track record this season so far, that's asking a lot.