Adam Schefter ESPN.com : Redskins to start McCoy over RG III

I don't totally agree. I understand why you would say that, except that all those that haven't been performing prior to his benching Robert are still on the field, so...

Tyler Polumbus ?

Even Mike Shanahan never brought himself to bench the guy during his 2 years straight starting, and floundering at RT.

It took Gruden only, what ? About 7 games to figure that out.
 
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I'll admit to being surprised by the amount of blame many of you are putting on Gruden for Robert's awful level of play. Yes, Jay has a lot to learn about handling the managerial and public aspects of the job, but I have never felt or had reason to believe he didn't give the tutelage of RG3 a genuine effort.

Until and unless I see or hear clear evidence to the contrary, my feeling is the failure is largely on the shoulders of the player in this case. It's not just that he hasn't been great, or even good, or even just average. It's that he's looked utterly lost within the framework of an NFL-level passing offense.

You all know what a big proponent I've been of the quarterback. And I take no pleasure in any of this continued drama being played out in the media world. But what my eyes have been screaming at me the last couple of weeks is that said quarterback has a very, very long way to go before he's ready to run a sustainable offense in this league.

I just can't put this one on the coach. Not based on what I've seen.

Here's my thing, Om. And maybe in my ignorance overall about football operations, I'm lost to the details. But, it seems to me that from the beginning, Jay said that it would be "foolish" to try to make Robert a pocket passer. Now, maybe that was his way of trying to throw off the rest of the League in what he was doing or what his plan was. Whatever the case, he did exactly what he said would be foolish to do. And let's face it, regardless of whether that was his plan all along or not, the process of changing a "read-option" QB into a pocket-passer is not an easy or quick one. In fact, I would almost say it's near impossible. And they don't seem to really want to give him a lot of that time needed.

That said, I am glad to see that we have a coach that is ballsy enough to make a move like this in an attempt to stir the flames & get wins. It is a bit refreshing in that manner. But I also have to question whether he is paying attention to everything that is going on or is he just focused on the QB because it almost seems to me like he is only focused on Robert. Now, maybe it's just that the QB position is so highly regarded, not just in football, but especially in Washington, that the focus is more the medias, not his. But, we see so many other players not performing on the field week in & week out, why is there such little attention paid to that? Why is it that the Defense is still in the hands of an incompetent boob? We all see it. We all know what's going on there. Yes, there are failures on the field, but many of those can be traced back to the lack of solid coaching, IMHO.

I see a weekly debacle in the O-Line & guys that seem to get lost in blocking just one guy & run thru trying to block one guy (and it's not always the best guy on the opponents D, either)...I find it difficult to blame the QB when he is struggling to trust the coaching staff behind him & the O-Line in front of him. No ground is stable for him, so it's really no surprise that he is shaky most of the time.

Anyway, that's what I see. If Colt can come in & start winning games, great. As I said in another post, I am first & foremost a Redskins fan. If this is what it takes to start winning games, so be it. W's are good period. I'm just not convinced that he'll be able to do things Robert wasn't able to because the O-Line is so bad. And if I were Robert & things got hairy with Colt at the helm & they came back to me asking me to take over again, I would say no & demand a trade & never play for the Redskins again. But, we'll see where we are at the end of the season. I am, as always, hoping for the best either way.
 
Tyler Polumbus ?

Even Mike Shanahan never brought himself to bench the guy during his 2 years straight starting, and floundering at RT.

It took Gruden only, what ? About 7 games to figure that out.

Ok, you say it only took him 7 games? Why is he still here, period? Didn't he have game film from last year? Didn't he have game film of the whole O-Line? Yet, he did little to bolster that position & still seems to pay little attention to the problems there. Tyler is just one out the whole O-Line that needs to be benched. I mean, I get it & I knew you were going to bring him up. But what about all the others that truly suck? Why are they still on the field?
 
I think Gruden could be a good coach (not that he will here because that would take Vince Lombardi) but when I read this (below) months ago it made me wonder wtf was Allen, I mean Snyder, thinking if they wanted him to be RG3's coach. That and he's a Gruden and we all know how Jon Gruden went through like 12 QB's in Tampa and in Oakland he replaced Jeff George (prototype) with Rich Gannon (noodle arm). Looking familiar now isn't it?

"When Jay Gruden convinced Bengals owner Mike Brown to draft Andy Dalton over Colin Kaepernick back in 2011, the former Cincinnati offensive coordinator acknowledged that he wasn't on board with the read-option craze sweeping college football. "

Gruden: Designed runs 'few and far between' for RGIII - NFL.com
 
I was basing my view on his last 3 games. TB, Minnesota and SF. He's getting worse each passing game. I'm at a loss trying to understand why. Regardless he needs to ride the bench, he was given ample time to show some progress and he didn't.
 
in the end it's the players who Gruden really needs to impress.

A coach certainly has to establish credibility in the locker room and have players respect his authority - lots of different ways of going about that. But ultimately in a functioning sports team its the players who need to impress the coach - if its the other way around thats a recipe for disaster and mediocrity at best.
 
I think Gruden could be a good coach (not that he will here because that would take Vince Lombardi) but when I read this (below) months ago it made me wonder wtf was Allen, I mean Snyder, thinking if they wanted him to be RG3's coach. That and he's a Gruden and we all know how Jon Gruden went through like 12 QB's in Tampa and in Oakland he replaced Jeff George (prototype) with Rich Gannon (noodle arm). Looking familiar now isn't it?

"When Jay Gruden convinced Bengals owner Mike Brown to draft Andy Dalton over Colin Kaepernick back in 2011, the former Cincinnati offensive coordinator acknowledged that he wasn't on board with the read-option craze sweeping college football. "

Gruden: Designed runs 'few and far between' for RGIII - NFL.com

It certainly has not been a marriage made in heaven.
 
Give me an example of who else should be benched, and also why their backup won't suck worse .

More sucker's choices.

That's not the only question. Why didn't we draft O line to begin with? Every Redskins fan in America, even casual ones, knew our O line couldn't protect, and you've got a QB back there who's already had one traumatic injury and you still elect not to beef up the O line? Moses was a wing and a prayer and that's not looking so promising so far.

As I said before, I WANT the coach to make the player-related decisions, who starts, who doesn't. My issue is, if you were pretty sure Robert was never going to be your guy, why didn't you act decisively to begin with. Why did you cave to the pressure to bring him back after Colt had won games and looked great doing so? And why do you play a bunch of public mind games that only serves to create drama, tension, and discord in and outside of the locker room. That's high school coaching stuff, not NFL caliber head coaching.

Gruden is a lot more like Shanahan so far on that front than he is Belichick - and that's the absolute last thing this franchise needs. I would prefer Gruden just stop talking so damn much and focus on coaching this mostly pathetic team. If you ask me, if we're grading actual performance on the field, his has been sorely lacking so far.
 
One thing I haven't heard mentioned... and I am not typically one to call for 'blamestorming', but someone needs to lose their job over the drafting of Robert Griffin. I understand as well as anyone that drafting a franchise QB is a crap shoot. But that was a draft where we could not afford to miss, and we certainly couldn't afford to give up what we did to move up and get him, and miss. We could've stayed where we were and gotten Russell Wilson for God's sake. I know the fans wanted RG3, and I was one of them. I can forgive the error. But our scouting department is clearly fatally inept.

And I also believe this disaster should cost Bruce Allen his job. We need a damn football GM, a REAL football GM, not a backslapping gladhander who's really just a glorified politician in GM clothes.
 
I'm still on board with Gruden. I believe in straight talk from a new coach especially in todays media. Straight talk isn't always going to say what we want to hear but it does help with the sound bytes that are circulated and reinterpreted different ways to make a story that isn't there. When a team is winning all is good things get chalked up as just being colorful. However when a team is having a 3-5 win season coming into December every statement made is over analyzed. Losing sucks, writing off the season before Thanksgiving sucks even worse. There is no feel good story or way to talk his way out of the mess that is his own. There isn't one thing he can say to make it all better.
We aren't 3 win team because Griffin couldn't find his way back from last season. I know some want to blame it on someone or something...It looks like shattered confidence to me. Prior to Griffins ankle injury he was making some progressions with his receivers and some decent throws. Ever since? He's playing like a rookie, 3 games in a row. He seems to be especially bad on 3rd downs...I believe I heard we were like 0-32 or so on 3rd downs over 10 yards.
Some of you have already given up on Gruden. I'm disappointed but for different reasons than some...I'm giving Gruden a pass on resurrecting RG3, (I think he like most coaches are unsure how to transition a read option qb to pro style offense.) I'm giving him a pass for retaining Haslett (I'm not convinced a rookie head coach has the clout to hand pick his entire staff and there was some familiarity with Haslett as a person and a coach)
Gruden has let me down with his Draft choices (Moses and Long) used for the O Line. I can't explain that away. I realize he may or may not have been given the final say but as a communicator I would hope he could do a better sell job steering them away from wasting good picks on marginal talent...unless of course they were his picks to start with.
 
More sucker's choices.

That's not the only question. Why didn't we draft O line to begin with? Every Redskins fan in America, even casual ones, knew our O line couldn't protect, and you've got a QB back there who's already had one traumatic injury and you still elect not to beef up the O line? Moses was a wing and a prayer and that's not looking so promising so far.

Its a fair question but it comes back to the huge issue with RGIII being the price we paid to get him - we used 3 first round picks and a 2nd round pick in acquiring him. Then you add in the cap penalty and the impact that had on our ability to sign free agents and the need for us to sign and keep players with low cap hits. Anyone with a brain can and could see we needed help on the line, but so does the whole NFL. Getting quality O'line players you need to use high draft picks or spend big free agent dollars. We didn't have high draft picks and were very limited on free agent spending - result you sign second and third tier veterans (e.g. Polumbus) take a chance on players who have injury concerns (e.g. Brown) and use mid round and lower draft picks hoping to find gold (LeRib, Compton, Moses, Long etc).

The cheap free agents then show why they were cheap, the guys who were injured stay injured and so far none of the low round draft picks show the scouts made a mistake with the grading. So you end up with what we have.

There are some good O'line prospects in the coming draft and at least two who are likely to go in the top 10 picks. I'd much rather see us take one of them with our top 10 1st round pick, or say Leonard Williams (DT who would play DE in a 34) than any of the QBs in this years draft.
 
I find it such a refreshing change to have a coach who holds every player equally accountable, doesn't play favorites, coddle players, hold bias, or hold up any blinders on his eyes at all, but rather sees the whole picture, and does so fully objectively, and doesn't beat around the bush when it comes to doing exactly what it takes to win football games, no matter how unpopular,
The real shame is that we don't have an ownerwho feels the same way.

I've reached the point where (for the first time in 10 years) I don't watch the games anymore since I'm convinced things won't change as long as Snyder's inept and caustic leadership is still in place.

Any precedent for forcing an owner of a team to sell?
 
More sucker's choices.

That's not the only question. Why didn't we draft O line to begin with? Every Redskins fan in America, even casual ones, knew our O line couldn't protect, and you've got a QB back there who's already had one traumatic injury and you still elect not to beef up the O line? Moses was a wing and a prayer and that's not looking so promising so far.

As I said before, I WANT the coach to make the player-related decisions, who starts, who doesn't. My issue is, if you were pretty sure Robert was never going to be your guy, why didn't you act decisively to begin with. Why did you cave to the pressure to bring him back after Colt had won games and looked great doing so? And why do you play a bunch of public mind games that only serves to create drama, tension, and discord in and outside of the locker room. That's high school coaching stuff, not NFL caliber head coaching.

Gruden is a lot more like Shanahan so far on that front than he is Belichick - and that's the absolute last thing this franchise needs. I would prefer Gruden just stop talking so damn much and focus on coaching this mostly pathetic team. If you ask me, if we're grading actual performance on the field, his has been sorely lacking so far.

Boone,

There are bigger problems that extend higher up than the coach. We have no talent evaluators in the front office. None. Zilch.

Until that happens (and we haven't had any credible front office since 1999), forget about addressing the holes in this team.
 
One thing I haven't heard mentioned... and I am not typically one to call for 'blamestorming', but someone needs to lose their job over the drafting of Robert Griffin. ... But our scouting department is clearly fatally inept....We need a damn football GM, a REAL football GM, not a backslapping gladhander who's really just a glorified politician in GM clothes.

Bingo.

The unfortunate part is that we have a team owned by someone who has demonstrated repeatedly that he either lacks the skills or is too stupid to undertand the basics of management of a franchise. When you have no limits to how much you can spend on scouts, general managers, front office staff but a cap on how much you spend on players - you have to put as much resources as possible on the GM and scouting department to attract the best money can buy. Especially critical when you can't afford to whiff draft after draft or free agency after free agency.

Don't spend the money on players - spend it on GM/scouts. And get the hell out of their way.
 
Man, it's incredible that folks forget that RG3 paid dividends his rookie year. When was the last time we went to the playoffs? That's right, it was GibbII. Robert saved Shanny from getting fired in Shanny's third year.

We had the best qb in football and he was a friggin' ROOKIE that year. Even after the injury, the hopes for the guy were sky high.

I think the whole off-season rehab was a disaster. Allowing RG3 to make those expectations in the media was not only his failure, but the failure of the franchise. He was 22 years old and calling the shots, along with his dad. That's when Snyder should have stepped in and set him straight. I suppose the opposite happened. You don't let a 22 year old lead the direction of the franchise.

After that disaster of a year last year, we were told Shanny was the problem. That we need a qb mentor...someone who can get RG3 into a pro set qb. So what does the Tampa mafia do? They hire Gruden, who hates option qbs, and lies to the media saying that it would be ridiculous to make RG3 and exclusive pocket passer. Then, he tries to make him an exclusive pocket passer.

Gruden actually has a poor history with qbs...this year, his first failure was Cousins.

I hope that doesn't continue to happen.

I agree with most of this - but what does it have to do with my post which was a response to a question about why we have not drafted better O'Line players?
 
One thing I haven't heard mentioned... and I am not typically one to call for 'blamestorming', but someone needs to lose their job over the drafting of Robert Griffin. I understand as well as anyone that drafting a franchise QB is a crap shoot. But that was a draft where we could not afford to miss, and we certainly couldn't afford to give up what we did to move up and get him, and miss. We could've stayed where we were and gotten Russell Wilson for God's sake. I know the fans wanted RG3, and I was one of them. I can forgive the error. But our scouting department is clearly fatally inept.

And I also believe this disaster should cost Bruce Allen his job. We need a damn football GM, a REAL football GM, not a backslapping gladhander who's really just a glorified politician in GM clothes.

Wow, Boone. you hit this one right out of the park, right into McCovey Cove. I couldn't agree more. If we there was ANY indecisiveness where Robert was concerned, they should have thought better about drafting him & spending so much to get him. Someone should be out the door for that. If Snyder really wants to win here, he needs to start showing it by truly getting football people. Period.
 
I agree with your comment Martin that nearly every team in the NFL needs a better O-line. Even the very best teams in the league. Seattle gave up 7 sacks last week alone.

I think what we are seeing now is understandable frustration and finger-pointing that is being placed in the wrong direction and years late.

We had a ton of holes this offseason, and no first rounder. What did people reasonably expect? Fill 10 holes with all-pro talent with limited resources?

And where was all this rage after the Seattle game? When Shanahan did the equivalent of driving a ferrari at 150 mph down the highway, watched the front tire fall off and then continued to punch the gas as we skidded down the road on our axle with sparks flying everywhere? He risked our next 5 years or more in hopes of one playoff run.

Everyone is justifiably angry and venting. I'm just surprised in which direction.
 
You're not helping McD. You don't remember the anger after the Seattle game? Selective memory much? Hell, Elephant was mad, as mad as the rest of us even.

The fact that you can't or won't admit Gruden's fault in this predicament says more about you than anything, imo.

Shanahan ruined the kid. Gruden was brought in to help. He has failed. There is plenty of blame to go around, and Gruden definitely deserves a large portion. Griffin has regressed under his "expert tutelage".
 
One thing I haven't heard mentioned... and I am not typically one to call for 'blamestorming', but someone needs to lose their job over the drafting of Robert Griffin. I understand as well as anyone that drafting a franchise QB is a crap shoot. But that was a draft where we could not afford to miss, and we certainly couldn't afford to give up what we did to move up and get him, and miss. We could've stayed where we were and gotten Russell Wilson for God's sake. I know the fans wanted RG3, and I was one of them. I can forgive the error. But our scouting department is clearly fatally inept.

And I also believe this disaster should cost Bruce Allen his job. We need a damn football GM, a REAL football GM, not a backslapping gladhander who's really just a glorified politician in GM clothes.

Well, if you believe Shanahan made the decision, then he has been fired. However, I don't think the decision maker in this scenario can be fired. I am leaning toward the idea that Snyder was all in on Griffin from the start. He was going to sell tickets, not Ryan Tannehill.

Watching the way things have played out over the past 2 years and how Shanahan and now Gruden seem to be playing scenarios out in the public domain, I think they were both leaned upon by Snyder through Allen to sell tickets with Griffin on the field.

Gruden benches Cousins in favor of McCoy. McCoy seems to be the type of QB Gruden likes for his offense and succeeds in his 6 quarters of football. While not dominant, he wins 2 games.

Griffin is "healthy" again so he starts. I thoroughly believe that is not Gruden's decision. I believe Gruden bit the bullet, handled things in the media and let RG3 hang himself on the field. I agree with Goal that this may not have been the proper way to handle things, but we are talking about strong personalities likely on a head-on collision.

It all boils down to Snyder again. It has to! He is the only constant.

Here's the rub and Canadian Hog mentioned it...as have others over the past 5 years...the Redskins are the 3rd most valuable team in the league and one of the most valuable teams in the world. You think Dan Snyder is going to change as long as he can earn that much with a sub par product on the field?
 

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