not impressed with the start of this "new regime"

[fansince62]

that's what we've heard... but like I said before, Hatcher/Porter essentially materialized out of nowhere. I hadn't heard EITHER one of those names tossed around until news broke that they had been signed/agreed to terms. I'm sure multiple players had been considered/courted but they were too expensive or determined they didn't want to come here for anything less then a blockbuster.

I'm with ya on one level. I get the push for good vibes, new regime, no Deions, the future holds nothing but promise, etc., etc. It's a nice place to be. Just the same.....I'm seeing other teams get better, faster. I think what we've done is add a bundle of ok players. good locker-room types. no real change agents.

This team is basically stuck whether by design or circumstance having to rely on the draft. that's a longer process. that's a process that easily becomes develop a player for 3 or 4 years and then watch em walk out the door for a big payoff. it has its downside as well.

I'm glad we held on to many of our quality players. that's a good thing. but after all the kvetching about the cap penalty these past two years...I'm looking at what's been accomplished - which as Ax points out is just on paper - and nothing really stands out to me. it's a wake-up call. I had been laboring under the impression that, whatever else, the previous regime had elevated the talent level through good drafts. what's going on now is a quiet reminder "nope....that was mostly smoke and mirrors."

bad day today due to other things. hope this all comes together as intended by some grand vision. at least, for the moment, one can relish the notion that the cowterds are lookin a whole lot worse than we are!

 

[Primus Porcus]

I'm with ya on one level. I get the push for good vibes, new regime, no Deions, the future holds nothing but promise, etc., etc. It's a nice place to be. Just the same.....I'm seeing other teams get better, faster. I think what we've done is add a bundle of ok players. good locker-room types. no real change agents.

This team is basically stuck whether by design or circumstance having to rely on the draft. that's a longer process. that's a process that easily becomes develop a player for 3 or 4 years and then watch em walk out the door for a big payoff. it has its downside as well.

I'm glad we held on to many of our quality players. that's a good thing. but after all the kvetching about the cap penalty these past two years...I'm looking at what's been accomplished - which as Ax points out is just on paper - and nothing really stands out to me. it's a wake-up call. I had been laboring under the impression that, whatever else, the previous regime had elevated the talent level through good drafts. what's going on now is a quiet reminder "nope....that was mostly smoke and mirrors."

bad day today due to other things. hope this all comes together as intended by some grand vision. at least, for the moment, one can relish the notion that the cowterds are lookin a whole lot worse than we are!

I'm with ya, we haven't really lit anything on fire, but the teams around us getting better, started with more... We've tried to buy championships before and it set us back further. Baby steps brother. Lets get consistent, then we can get better, then we'll get great. We gotta walk before we can run...

 

[Bulldog]

Denver doesn't care about 2015 or 2016 . Guys like Manning, Welker, Ware, etc will be nearing retirement if not already there.

The Redskins meanwhile will need new deals for Trent Williams, Griffin and Morris. Garçons deal is also up then.

Allen and Gruden are not going to bust the cap for those next two years to simply bring in one or two DBs like the Broncos.

Their future is now, understandably.

Ours is not.

 

[fansince62]

Denver doesn't care about 2015 or 2016 . Guys like Manning, Welker, Ware, etc will be nearing retirement if not already there.

The Redskins meanwhile will need new deals for Trent Williams, Griffin and Morris. Garçons deal is also up then.

Allen and Gruden are not going to bust the cap for those next two years to simply bring in one or two DBs like the Broncos.

Their future is now, understandably.

Ours is not.

that's true. a situation every team faces. one made more interesting by the fact that rosters seem to operate in 3-4 year cycles these days. how did the Broncos go from dregs just a few short years ago to championship contenders? they signed: a top tier veteran QB; they signed the top receiver from one of their primary contenders; they signed a FA rb. what they're doing this off-season isn't a change in approach.

why did the Pats sign reevis?

why did the Packers sign peppers?

why did the iggles sign sproles?

because there was outstanding talent that made their teams better.

our team doesn't win without better talent.

 

[Primus Porcus]

that's true. a situation every team faces. one made more interesting by the fact that rosters seem to operate in 3-4 year cycles these days. how did the Broncos go from dregs just a few short years ago to championship contenders? they signed: a top tier veteran QB; they signed the top receiver from one of their primary contenders; they signed a FA rb. what they're doing this off-season isn't a change in approach.

why did the Pats sign reevis?

why did the Packers sign peppers?

why did the iggles sign sproles?

because there was outstanding talent that made their teams better.

our team doesn't win without better talent.

They also each have as strong core of players and strong QB play. Watch the Eagles take a step back because Foles cant keep a 20-1 TD to INT ratio.


Griffin played VERY well in 12 and we won the division. After that season you could look at this team and count on 1 hand what we 'thought' we needed to sure up to be a legit contender. Green Bay lost Aaron Rodgers last year and they fell apart. New England maintains a strong QB play but even more-so they have a powerful system in place by the coaching... so much so that even when Brady went down, Cassil came in and dominated the regular season, they went 11-5 that season. My point here is that after next season, lets look at Philly and see if they are going to be a continued success... and as for the other 2 teams? They've been a contender for multiple years now..... they have the luxury of paying for guys as a risk.

 

[fansince62]

Very true. We need better talent. We've resigned two d-guys...one was supposed to have a 'beast' year last year, and the other looks fairly mediocre. I guess the 'unfettered' Haslett defense will make these guys better?

Oh, and why Moss is back is a head scratcher...he may still be fast, but he's afraid of taking a hit anymore.

Now, look at Hatcher. The guy was in a FA year, and he played like a beast. Unfortunately, we all remember how guys generally react when they come to the Skins for the year of their big pay day...especially when they're 32.

I'm not happy with our FA signings so far. Picking up a 32 year old, an average o-lineman from a pretty bad franchise and paying so much money for Orakpo isn't giving me great confidence going in. And, I thought that signing a 5-11" receiver wasn't something Gruden was going to do...he likes WRs that are bigger.

I guess just getting rid of Shanny will make us better...I hope so.

half of me agrees (except I like keeping Rak)...and half of me thinks "let's see how it all plays out...I'm just a Skins' fan jaded by all the nonsense over the last 20+ years."

"won't get fooled again"........but trying "to be like Mike"!!!!!

 

[Henry]

Dallas isn't getting better

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

 

[GSF]

Man some of you guys are some serious hand-wringers.

In 2012 the Redskins won the NFC East and RG3 was the ROY. I think you guys forget how good Griffin was that year.

In 2013 RG3 was hurt and got zero reps in pre-season and the Skins went 3-13. The Shanahans made some of the dumbest decisions in the history of professional coaching last year.

So far the Redskins have shown patience and discretion, something we were all screaming for just a few short years ago. Now RG3 comes back healthy with a much better offensive coach. The Skins are in the process of addressing the line, and they have already made a big additions to the d-line and special teams. Talk about safety and receiver all you want, but make no mistake, the Redskins' biggest weaknesses last year other than RG3 were on the lines and special teams. The main reason the pass defense was so horrible last season was they got zero push up the middle, exactly what Hatcher is best at.

I don't expect the Skins to go undefeated next year. I'm pretty sure they will have their ups and downs. I do like what they have done so far though in the first few days of the first pre-season of the Gruden era. Just the fact the RG3 is healthy and KS and MS are gone makes me feel like the Skins will be much better in 2014 than they were in 2013.

 

[fansince62]

GSF...like your optimism!

- they can't be any worse than last season

- an o-line doesn't get better because we sign a thus far undistinguished guard from the Cleveland Browns. Gruden is changing the strategy for how the line will play. so we'll see in time. no argument that better pass pro will help RGIII mature into a NFL QB with mastery over all the required skills. more work to be done.

- I don't recall a single post here...ever...come dallas week....of anyone remarking "that hatcher...he's a beast. we gotta stop him first". I hope, and think, he is an improvement and believe he is a good signing for the team (their best this off-season). sounds like the team is brainstorming a lot more flexibility in fronts/schemes/etc for the defense and Hatcher is a key component.

- disagree on the "main reason" argument. that's been a weak secondary and has been for years. there's a reason the Skins have been chasing/drafting safeties and cbs year after year. I like the Seattle approach - build a strong line and a strong secondary.

- you're right about the offense being closer to meeting expectations. Roberts will make a decent 2nd or 3rd receiver. that said, there's a reason the Skins talked to Steve Smith and may draft a wideout.

- as for all the other signings. eh...if the criterion is "they didn't spend a lot of money" I don't find that to be a compelling argument. 7-9/8-8 isn't a shiny apple because it comes with a cheaper price tag. the reality is that the Skins haven't been inking outrageous contracts since Haynesworth. that is one of the things the Shanahan's fixed (they inherited Haynesworth - one can debate whether they should have cut him). I remind you, btw, that it was Shanahan who began the process of straightening out the priorities. they made a lot of mistakes - but they fixed some things also.....most especially the locker-room.

I would think it prudent to reserve judgment. for example, has the defense improved its speed sufficiently to meet the extraordinary challenges Philly's offense presents? we don't know.

anywho...in my mind the thought that things are better because we haven't repeated mistakes of the past is a positive by subtraction - not addition. this team's biggest problem is talent. it's strengths are at QB, RB, FB, LT, OLBs, Field Goal Kicker. TE maybe depending on whether or not JR's bell isn't getting rung next season. Garcon isn't an elite receiver - but he's pretty dang good. that leaves a lot of other positions where incumbents need to elevate their game or new players need to make an impact.

hopefully, we make a steal or two in the draft and a surprise June cut by some other team works in our favor. most especially - we get our RT (I have no idea if Penn is all that good or not) and both a FS and a SS - on the roster or not...we don't have either at the moment.

you're right that we'll be better next season - per previous...it's not possible to be worse than last seasons outfit!!! how much better? good enough to beat the Iggles, Packers, Niners, Seahawks, Broncos, patriots of the world? cuz that's all that really matters (and dallass of course).

 

[fansince62]

They also each have as strong core of players and strong QB play. Watch the Eagles take a step back because Foles cant keep a 20-1 TD to INT ratio.


Griffin played VERY well in 12 and we won the division. After that season you could look at this team and count on 1 hand what we 'thought' we needed to sure up to be a legit contender. Green Bay lost Aaron Rodgers last year and they fell apart. New England maintains a strong QB play but even more-so they have a powerful system in place by the coaching... so much so that even when Brady went down, Cassil came in and dominated the regular season, they went 11-5 that season. My point here is that after next season, lets look at Philly and see if they are going to be a continued success... and as for the other 2 teams? They've been a contender for multiple years now..... they have the luxury of paying for guys as a risk.

yes the 2012 Griffin did play well...very well....in a structure created by the hated/departed Shanahans. he played in a system designed for specific strengths - most especially his running skills. my guess is that is going to be donwnplayed in the future. there's only so much knee to go around. I've always been a big homer for RGIII - mostly because of what lies between his ears. a million QBs have great physical assets. it's decision-making under pressure that separates the great from the near-great.

 

[fansince62]

Peppers is old and often injured
Sproles is 31 and on the downside
Revis costs as much as all the players we signed so far practically.

None of them would do us any good.

but hatcher in his 30s is going to do us wonders? plenty players do quite well in their 30s. I seem to recall a certain Redskins CB who is an example!

the reason we're not spending big bucks on any one need area is because, IMO, there are so many holes to be filled. that's kinda obvious. the trade-off is less improvement at the top-end vis talent - one of the reasons I supported keeping Rak even if a bit expensive.

man - you guys are gonna make me work for every idea!

 

[Nobody]

You know what I find hilarious about all of this? Most guys that become great players while previously being no names, were acquired for peanuts. Most of the top names in the league right now were nothing before they were something. I'd rather spend very little on a guy who could turn out to be a steal, than do the same routine of overpaying for someone who was good once, but stinks it up once they get here.

 

[GSF]

TR1, I'm going to wait until after the draft to decide whether or not this regime is going to address the lines. The lines are built in the draft, no free agency. Clearly they at least recognize the deficiency along the lines since they have already signed a good DT, and have a good OT at the park today.

I'm not saying everything is perfect, and the skins are going to the superbowl next year, but I'm much more optimistic about how this group has started off than how the previous ones did. Don't forget Shanny came in and traded our second round pick for a washed up McNabb. I think we'll have a much clearer picture of this staff's agenda after the draft, but they have addressed several of the teams issues already, and they done it without trading away draft picks.

 

[fansince62]

TR1, I'm going to wait until after the draft to decide whether or not this regime is going to address the lines. The lines are built in the draft, no free agency. Clearly they at least recognize the deficiency along the lines since they have already signed a good DT, and have a good OT at the park today.

I'm not saying everything is perfect, and the skins are going to the superbowl next year, but I'm much more optimistic about how this group has started off than how the previous ones did. Don't forget Shanny came in and traded our second round pick for a washed up McNabb. I think we'll have a much clearer picture of this staff's agenda after the draft, but they have addressed several of the teams issues already, and they done it without trading away draft picks.

this group is benefitting from much of the clean-up work Shanahan had to initiate given what he inherited.

not disputing that this leadership team may be doing things even better. what I find troubling is the comparison process that always seems to un-appreciate/under-recognize what the Shanahans did accomplish. this group has a foundation because the Shanahans went out and got RGIII (and at the same time not settling for say....Gabbert or Tannehill), drafted Morris, traded for Garcon, etc, etc. not singling you out....just working toward a more accurate picture of how this franchise has been evolving.

 

[Bulldog]

Someone is really going to compare the Patriots or Broncos situations in re FA to the Redskins?

These teams can spend a lot on one player bc they have better talent to put around him.

Revis on a one year deal here in DC for $12M makes no sense.

Neither does acquiring a 31 year old running back like Sproles and giving up a middle pick in a deep draft.

That fourth or fifth round pick could be a bust but it could another Richard Sherman or Dexter Manley too.

 

[GSF]

this group is benefitting from much of the clean-up work Shanahan had to initiate given what he inherited.

not disputing that this leadership team may be doing things even better. what I find troubling is the comparison process that always seems to un-appreciate/under-recognize what the Shanahans did accomplish. this group has a foundation because the Shanahans went out and got RGIII (and at the same time not settling for say....Gabbert or Tannehill), drafted Morris, traded for Garcon, etc, etc. not singling you out....just working toward a more accurate picture of how this franchise has been evolving.

I agree with you 62. The Shanahans did so some good things and left us in better shape overall then when they got us imo. RG3, Morris, Kerrigan, Garcon...all great moves. The problem was they also made some terrible decisions, especially in their first and last years with the team. Not saying it was all bad though. My point was that I like the way this group has started off in comparison, which is what I thought the debate was in this thread.

 

[fansince62]

I agree with you 62. The Shanahans did so some good things and left us in better shape overall then when they got us imo. RG3, Morris, Kerrigan, Garcon...all great moves. The problem was they also made some terrible decisions, especially in their first and last years with the team. Not saying it was all bad though. My point was that I like the way this group has started off in comparison, which is what I thought the debate was in this thread.

no argument from me! Shanahan's ego/hubris undid him!

I think the OP's orig purpose was to comment on whether the signings were actually fixing things. the thread then sorta rerouted into a debate over how much money was/was not being spent relative to past patterns.

in truth...it's two separate things: the spend plan and the impact new talent will have. an argument can be made that these are not independent variables . but everyone is in their camp by now so I don't see the use in running on over it. I do think, however, that no one can claim a good strategy was adopted until the final results are in. I also think the assessment depends, in part, on how other teams perform - if other teams perform better (e.g., Iggles) then their FO did a better job. seems pretty cut & dry to me. it's not whether we spent more or less on FAs - it's whether the strategy pursued produces championships.

that's my story and I'm stickin to it!!!

 

[Bulldog]

It's two things.

Acquiring talented players at value (that doesn't mean cheap!) and then working the roster to ensure you have the right MIX of players/talent that blends together to win.

We have not had both synergies working together in this organization for many years.

Shanahan was more structured than previous coaches in terms of his process but was in the end limited only by the extent of his own ego.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

I question how much better off we are after shamahan. Frankly he took over an aging team that was really deficient on offence and needed to be more aggressive on defence, he took the one strength of this team and turned it into a weakness, and took 4 years to put us in a position for a 3 win season.

why? what exactly did we gain? we gained rg3, but at what cost? morriss was the only real highlite find because he came late in the draft. TW is solid but he was a very high pick.

the new regime doesnt appear to be really attacking free agency aggressively. btw building a solid oline is almost always a combination of free agency, practice roster raiding and drafting astutely, we flat out missed on evan mathis who we could have gotten for a song, but since hes not a big name, we watched him solidify the fecals line instead while we stood pat. Giacomini? was a guy seattle stole off Greenbay and now hes a coveted free agent.

the problem is that there really is only one way to build a dynasty but we had a guy who though he knew better and now we are paying for his hubris.

 

[Elephant]

I have not spoken my mind about how disappointed I am with this free agency period. But I am!

Andre Roberts - OK, I will take the addition of depth.

Bruce Campbell - Surprised if he's on the final 53

Tracy Porter - Inconsistent, but probably better than Josh Wilson

Adam Hayward - Depth at Special Teams, ok.

Jason Hatcher - He was a backup for years, Dallas installs Tampa 2 with Monte Kiffen, he has a solid year...now he goes back to 3-4?

Shaun Lavauo - I thought he would replace Chester, but it looks like Lichtensteiger is going to center? Lavauo is taking his place? WTF? You anchor your OL in the middle with a Center who barely weighs 280 in an NFL with 350 pound DT's?

Clifton Geathers - How many teams has he played for in his short career?

Jake Rogers - OK, I guess we should have some competition at K.

Fine, depth is great, but that's all we've signed to a team that needs at least a few starters, especially along the OL. I understand the value signings, but we also NEED a GOOD center, RG and RT. Wem do not have a good player at any position along the OL except Trent. The rest were serviceable at best. And the only one I could have lived with for another season was the Center...we let go.

I know the off-season is not over, we need still have the draft, but we do not have a 1st round pick. That alone should be reason enough to sign at least one big splash move for the OL or the secondary. At least one! The chances of getting a starter off the bat at OL in the draft are slim!