Change of Thought: Let Orakpo Go

Phew, you think we should pay top dollar to keep orakpo henry?

I thought most of us were roughly on the same page, but the last page or two has convinced me I was wrong.

I don't think we SHOULD pay top dollar, no. I think if we have to we have to, though. I think if we pay top money for Orakpo, we are overpaying, but pass-rusher, along with LT and QB are positions you often have to overpay for.

I think a lot of posters in this thread have quite the cavalier attitude about Orakpo because we have a nice backup in Jackson. Jackson's a nice utility player but he's not a pass rusher.

Rak is by no means elite, but he's the most consistent pass rusher we've had here in 20 years. I don't think we should cast that off lightly.

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I don't think we SHOULD pay top dollar, no. I think if we have to we have to, though. I think if we pay top money for Orakpo, we are overpaying, but pass-rusher, along with LT and QB are positions you often have to overpay for.

I think a lot of posters in this thread have quite the cavalier attitude about Orakpo because we have a nice backup in Jackson. Jackson's a nice utility player but he's not a pass rusher.

Rak is by no means elite, but he's the most consistent pass rusher we've had here in 20 years. I don't think we should cast that off lightly.

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He's gonna get paid like an elite pass rusher, that's for sure. And I think he'll deliver.
 
Am I the only one who remembers us bitching about not EVER drafting DLine for 15 years?

We now have a guy (the likes of which do not grow on trees - obviously), and now we want to get rid of him?

Really?
 
Am I the only one who remembers us bitching about not EVER drafting DLine for 15 years?

We now have a guy (the likes of which do not grow on trees - obviously), and now we want to get rid of him?

Really?

It's a question of return on investment.

Just because we haven't done it before doesn't mean we should do it with the first guy we get a chance to. It should be a calculated decision where the general goal is to get more than you paid for, not the other way around.
 
We paid a First Rounder to get him, and now you want to ditch him for... what?

Don't misunderstand me, I don't want to overpay, but if we are going to, I SOOOOO much rather would do it for one of our homegrown guys than a FA.

Rak is a REALLY good player. He's gonna make a lot of money with this contract. I'd rather it be with us than someone else, which would necessitate us sifting through a weak FA and draft class for his replacement.
 
I love it! When we see the same ole' bull rush that drives the defender past the QB, Rak get caught up with the defender, lets the QB slip right past him and complete a pass...or when we watch a RB go right around him because he was fooled to the inside, not containing his edge...or when he is beaten, like I do to Mike, consistently in coverage because he's lost in space...then what?

But, he's a home grown draft pick, let's over pay him!

Hey, at least he's good for 10 sacks. Never mind he can't do anything else.

Good teams are consistent. they know when to cut bait. I like the idea of keeping our own talent, but not over paying them in the process because they can do one thing and one thing only in an NFL where an LB needs to be more versatile.

How do we fill the whole? Let's worry about the other holes on the team that we can address...trust me, there are plenty of them. An NT worth a **** can create enough pressure up middle enough to get Jackson and Kerrigan some time. And since the NT is probably the most important position in the 3-4, let's get one al little better than Chris Baker or the serviceable Cofield. How about some studs at DE who can actually help create pressure to take the double teams off our OLB's? Most importantly, let's address the OL first and foremost. I know the ability to sign our own players first is important, but OL is much more important than giving Rak too much money.

After all that, then we address the loss of Rak when we can...next year or the year after if we don't already have that player on the team waiting his turn. It ain't all gonna happen overnight. Like I said, for all intents and purposes, he's gone anyway. We would simply be filling a current hole with him.
 
We were 3-13. We are not a good team that can afford to let one of our best players walk for nothing.
 
We paid a First Rounder to get him, and now you want to ditch him for... what?

Don't misunderstand me, I don't want to overpay, but if we are going to, I SOOOOO much rather would do it for one of our homegrown guys than a FA.

Rak is a REALLY good player. He's gonna make a lot of money with this contract. I'd rather it be with us than someone else, which would necessitate us sifting through a weak FA and draft class for his replacement.

I don't want to ditch him. I don't want to pay 10+ mil a season for him.

That's what he's going to get. He's going to ask for 11 maybe 12. Someone is going to pay him 10.

It's not about keeping him or not, it's a question of paying what someone else is willing to pay him.

It doesn't make sense. He's not been an essential play maker when it matters. He only shows up when the game is irrelevant.

Vinny spent the #1. That should also go against him in this...
 
Can't do anything else? You and I were watching different players, El.

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Bottom line: there are not enough draft picks or free agents to fill the holes we DO have, without creating yet another hole. Right now, OLB is one of the strengths of this defense. Let Orakpo go, and it becomes yet another weakness.
 
Everyone act's like these other holes we'll have players just want to hop on the bus for a 3-13 team without overpaying......we're going to be overpaying for just about anyone we sign as a FA, get over this overpaying bs and focus on whether or not the player can help us win games. Our biggest FA busts were not players that ever helped us win games.
 
We were 3-13. We are not a good team that can afford to let one of our best players walk for nothing.


Im going to try to look at all angles here, and I'll give my opinion at the end.


For the sake of argument.. we were 3-13... with a putrid defense. We struggled at every aspect on that side of the ball. Rak balled out last year, with a potential contract looming. He's been here since 2009 and has never logged more then 50 tackles (not including assists)... he's only played all 16 games 2 times, and has 39.5 sacks (all of this according to Redskins.com). His best season was this past with 43 solo/17 assisted tackles, 10 sacks, and 1 INT (his only of his career) for a TD. Lots of teams fall victim to the recent production of players, and don't look big picture.


That being said, Rak has also played under the "handcuffed" defense for 4 of his 5 years in the league. He's a pure pass rusher. He's not a zone coverage guy, he's not a man-to-man vs TE guy. He's a pass rusher who, while might only have a select few moves, will wear you down by trying to run you over. He showed last year that he can play the run, and that he can play inspired football. He's still young. A 5 - 6 year contract gives you great bargaining weight to keep Kerrigan here as well. The two of them can continue to develop together, not having to learn a new system.


Personally I think we have to pay him. We need to keep him here, but I hope we don't overspend. Browsing some of the contracts out there, I see him getting paid, but I dont see him getting a 'max' deal. Maybe I'm reaching here, but I see him getting somewhere around 5 years - $45 million w/ $20 million guaranteed and a good sized bonus. $4 mil a year guaranteed with incentives does not seem unfair to me, with Clay Matthews getting $4.1m, Demarcus Ware getting $4.2m, Tamba Hali getting $3.2m, Suggs getting $2.35m and Woodley getting $2.8m.
 
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Everyone act's like these other holes we'll have players just want to hop on the bus for a 3-13 team without overpaying......we're going to be overpaying for just about anyone we sign as a FA, get over this overpaying bs and focus on whether or not the player can help us win games. Our biggest FA busts were not players that ever helped us win games.
I think that kind of logic is part of what caused this organization to be a complete cluster you-know-what for about a decade.

I think this organization needs to be significantly more calculated in spending their cap space.

Especially given the new found cap space, courtesy of an expiring penalty.

There's a lot of potential there. If we were doing a complete rebuild that would make it possible to turn over 2/3 of the roster, which is otherwise practically impossible. We don't need a complete rebuild... think of the possibilities there...

We can't afford to casually throw away our current contract/cap position... It's honestly surprising to me how many people don't look at it this way.
 
ST - you mention he only played 16 games twice, but didn't he kind of sit out the last game this past year as opposed to being unable to go?

I feel like if the game mattered he would have been on the field, but I've honestly compartmentalized last season into a tiny box and i threw that shit away months ago. Hard to recall stuff like that for me.
 
ST - you mention he only played 16 games twice, but didn't he kind of sit out the last game this past year as opposed to being unable to go?

I feel like if the game mattered he would have been on the field, but I've honestly compartmentalized last season into a tiny box and i threw that shit away months ago. Hard to recall stuff like that for me.



lol yeah I guess..
 
We can't afford to casually throw away our current contract/cap position... It's honestly surprising to me how many people don't look at it this way.

Right... But we need an OLB. It's either bring in a sub par replacement free agent, and hope Jackson steps up big time, or use one of our higher picks to replace him, and pray like hell that they'll be ready to contribute in their rookie season.

Either option leaves us with less talent than if we re-sign Orakpo, and option two leaves us with fewer draft picks. I'm pretty sold on our second round pick going towards offense... How confident are you we can find a starting-quality OLB in the 3rd round? I'm not.


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Right... But we need an OLB. It's either bring in a sub par replacement free agent, and hope Jackson steps up big time, or use one of our higher picks to replace him, and pray like hell that they'll be ready to contribute in their rookie season.

Either option leaves us with less talent than if we re-sign Orakpo, and option two leaves us with fewer draft picks. I'm pretty sold on our second round pick going towards offense... How confident are you we can find a starting-quality OLB in the 3rd round? I'm not.


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I think we could replace Orakpo with someone that doesn't have such an over inflated sense of self worth that would leave us not a whole lot of drop off in production and with a significantly smaller contract.

I do not know who that person should be, I don't follow the FA and draft market like quite a few people around here do. Maybe that person doesn't exist, and if I did the work to realize that (or paid more attention to those that do) I would have a different opinion.

But teams do it all the time, and supposedly our FO is another casualty of the ShanCuffian era, so they should be able to make that happen given their newly found freedom to do their job.
 
We were 3-13. We are not a good team that can afford to let one of our best players walk for nothing.

And we most certainly cannot over pay a player who is a one trick pony no matter how good he is at that one trick. People keep talking about the asset Orakpo brings while ignoring his liabilities.

He's a player I would like to have wear the B&G for life, but we cannot pay him like a top 5 DE/OLB in this league...he's not that. Like I said, we are not a team who can afford to pay a player for a position that is less important than several other positions we have much greater needs either.
 
Bottom line: there are not enough draft picks or free agents to fill the holes we DO have, without creating yet another hole. Right now, OLB is one of the strengths of this defense. Let Orakpo go, and it becomes yet another weakness.

What you keep ignoring is that his position is a hole now, he's a free agent. We have other more important holes to fill than a good pass rush specialist...not even great.
 
What you keep ignoring is that his position is a hole now, he's a free agent. We have other more important holes to fill than a good pass rush specialist...not even great.

Well, we just simply have to agree to disagree on Rak's talent level.

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