Random Commanders Thoughts

[CounterTrey]

My issue is that Griffin's feelings on the issue carry weight, not how, when, or if they could change.

He would feel different if we were winning? Well, all the more reason he shouldn't be the one making the decision.

He's 23. Pardon me, but what the hell does he know about winning a super bowl?

And we come back around to you show me some proof that his word does carry weight and I'll play along. As is he's "benched" right now so I'm still not seeing the factual basis for this rumor based paranoia.

 

[Bulldog]

or maybe Snyder as an observer looks at what is most visible, ie the play of the quarterback, and really doesn't have any specific comments or feedback on the play of the left tackle or the right outside linebacker?

I think if you polled most owners they would be most knowledgeable about the stats of the quarterback on their team and less so about the individual performances of players on the lines or in the secondary.

Except for Jerry Jones of course, who is an expert on everything from personnel to coaching to marketing, etc.

 

[tshile]

And we come back around to you show me some proof that his word does carry weight and I'll play along. As is he's "benched" right now so I'm still not seeing the factual basis for this rumor based paranoia.

I get that you want undeniable hard evidence, but that's not going to exist for a situation like this until well after the fact.

It's speculation. If you don't buy into it then so be it, there's nothing that's going to convince you otherwise. We'll know years down the road when info leaks about it, which will be great, but it doesn't do a whole lot for us right now, while we're discussing it.

 

[Boone]

I've been more critical of Snyder than most, so I'm not giving him a pass on any aspect of this mess. But there's not a lot if evidence of 'unfettered access'. I understand his history plays into it. What also plays into it is the little insecure girl we apparently have for a head coach.

 

[tshile]

you mean quarterback?

 

[Lanky Livingston]

I've been more critical of Snyder than most, so I'm not giving him a pass on any aspect of this mess. But there's not a lot if evidence of 'unfettered access'. I understand his history plays into it. What also plays into it is the little insecure girl we apparently have for a head coach.

Boone, as a military guy, you know about how important chain of command is than most of us. And yet you think Shanahan is insecure because Griffin is breaking it?

 

[CounterTrey]

Bad seasons happen. Is Matt Ryan petitioning Art Blank for Mike Smith to be fired in Atlanta, just because things didn't go so well this year? How about Jay Cutler asking Virginia McCaskey to fire Trestman because he got benched? Is Tommy Terrific talking to Robert Kraft about getting Belicheat fired because they're not winning every game by 40+ points this season?

No, because that is not how its supposed to work. Griffin's unfettered access to Snyder undermines anyone who comes in here to coach. Vince Lombardi could rise from the grave and come coach here, and he would be unsuccessful as long as Griffin is buddy-buddy with Snyder.

Which you have zero evidence of and there's a mountain of evidence against. Sorry but that's a load of hogwash. Like I said before, you folks are stuck in 4 years ago and refuse to acknowledge an established track record of 4 years. I don't. I'll wait for actual evidence instead of allowing myself to be manipulated by Shanahan's crew via the media with lame, unsubstantiated and often completely debunked rumors. I mean cripes even that hack LaConfora is laughing at Shanahan at this stage. Who's he think he's kidding? You I guess.

 

[tshile]

Maybe it's just me but it's going to take a lot longer than the last 4 years for Snyder to establish a track record of anything contradictory to his first 12/13 years.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Which you have zero evidence of and there's a mountain of evidence against. Sorry but that's a load of hogwash. Like I said before, you folks are stuck in 4 years ago and refuse to acknowledge an established track record of 4 years. I don't. I'll wait for actual evidence instead of allowing myself to be manipulated by Shanahan's crew via the media with lame, unsubstantiated and often completely debunked rumors. I mean cripes even that hack LaConfora is laughing at Shanahan at this stage. Who's he think he's kidding? You I guess.

There is no evidence either way. Please show me this "mountain of evidence" against Snyder's relationship with Griffin, as I've yet to see it.

A load of hogwash? It took Snyder eleven years to realize Vinny Cerrato was terrible. ELEVEN YEARS! He does not learn quickly.

 

[CounterTrey]

I get that you want undeniable hard evidence, but that's not going to exist for a situation like this until well after the fact.

It's speculation. If you don't buy into it then so be it, there's nothing that's going to convince you otherwise. We'll know years down the road when info leaks about it, which will be great, but it doesn't do a whole lot for us right now, while we're discussing it.

The you guys shouldn't be acting as if it's a concrete truth backed by evidence when all evidence we've gotten thus far disproves it. You can say we'll never see it all you want, it doesn't legitamize your belief...which is all you have at this stage...belief. I've learned the hard way over the years to never get worked up and buy all in until there are actual on the record quotes from people. The rest most often turns out to be complete B.S.

Nevertheless you guys keep talking about smoke and fire and Snyder while simultaneously trying to deny the gag inducing blaze coming from the Shanahan camp. It's just nuts to me.

 

[Bulldog]

Shanahan is a control freak who is trying to wear 3 hats at one as Team President, GM and Head Coach. His empire was never really built so now that things are unraveling I can't use the phrase 'the empire is crumbling' but you get the point.

What is most striking about his failure here is the constant flow of media gaffes. From the dust-up after the benching of Donovan McNabb to all of the issues with Haynesworth and now the RG3 situation, Mike has looked like a guy who is grasping at straws.

His last press conference in which he implored people to believe him because he was telling the truth (and he usually doesn't do that ) was comical.

Add him to that list of coaches who won a Super Bowl with one organization but failed to be able to translate that success to another organization when given expanded authority and responsibility.

 

[CounterTrey]

How about all the player and personnel quotes saying they haven't seen a single bit of this buddying up and preferential treatment that has been alluded to? How about former execs and current ones reinforcing the fact that NOTHING happens or has happened in that building for 4 years with the the express approval of on Mike Shanahan. How about everyone involved denying this but the leak originator? You're ighnoring the actual smoke and focusing on the smell of it on Snyder from fires put out 4 years ago.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

The you guys shouldn't be acting as if it's a concrete truth backed by evidence when all evidence we've gotten thus far disproves it. You can say we'll never see it all you want, it doesn't legitamize your belief...which is all you have at this stage...belief. I've learned the hard way over the years to never get worked up and buy all in until there are actual on the record quotes from people. The rest most often turns out to be complete B.S.

Nevertheless you guys keep talking about smoke and fire and Snyder while simultaneously trying to deny the gag inducing blaze coming from the Shanahan camp. It's just nuts to me.

I've already said I don't have concrete evidence, and that I'm just not willing to give Snyder the benefit of the doubt. You are, and that's fine. I'm not going to let the little man cry wolf anymore.

 

[CounterTrey]

Yea but you act and argue the point as if you do. If you don't have concrete evidence and are just going on a feeling then debating people who are using actual evidence that is factually based is going to fail every time. I'm not giving Snyder any benefit of doubt, I'm just waiting for something factual before I get upset. I'm just as suspicious as one should be of an owner with this history, but again I say how many years does a guy have to keep with the track record Snyder has the last 4 years before this crap stops? A decade? Two? None of you answered this before, it's a legit question.

 

[Bulldog]

I am not prepared to give Shanahan my trust either

He has done nothing here to endear himself. He has been disingenuous at times or a downright liar at others, by his own admission. He glares at the media for asking germaine questions about the failures of the team and makes believe that 3 double digit loss seasons in 4 years somehow qualifies him for Joe Gibbs status in this town.

ANY coach that loses 10, 11 and 12-13 games in 3 of four seasons in the NFL is in danger of losing his job, regardless of the owner.

Remember that Coughlin in NY was almost fired after going 9-7. The guy has ONE losing season since 2004 and yet has been on the hot seat several times since then.

The only reason Shanahan has any platform here given his record is the equally poor record of the owner in making good decisions.

If this were Jack Kent Cooke and Shanahan had been hired and come up with this record in 2013 he would be fired after the season, no questions asked.

 

[fansince62]

I've been more critical of Snyder than most, so I'm not giving him a pass on any aspect of this mess. But there's not a lot if evidence of 'unfettered access'. I understand his history plays into it. What also plays into it is the little insecure girl we apparently have for a head coach.

I'm consistently amazed by the folks who can't run their minds through a basic analysis that considers alternative hypotheses. this leads to obvious conclusions vis agendas. but we can leave that for another day.

I lean in your direction Boone with a caveat: the insecure girl meme. doesn't fit what I have seen, read, heard. In the case of Shanahan, I think it is more about span of control and authority. He strikes me as an old school NFL authoritarian type whose leadership style doesn't accommodate group hugs and contrarian points-of-view. that's ok. one reason I have advocated, other than stabilizing the processes/behaviors at the ownership level, allotting Shanahan his remaining year and holding him accountable for the 5 year duration - allowing for external factors (e.g., cap hit). he was hired. has a contract structured to allow him precisely these privileges. ok. fine. honor the contract. and when it's done, move on if the results aren't there. but let the process play out. future candidates look for things like this: will they be given time to execute their vision and a contract that allows them to do so. Snyder et al will need to allow this freedom - any coach worth a dang will demand it - but enter the negotiation process with observations gleaned from the Shanahan years that support some constraints.

this is a journey. Snyder has been an abysmal leader until recently. now we have at least positive by negative - he is less engaged in decision-making. we are stuck with him; the prima facie evidence is that he is adjusting. he is…shhhh….gaining SOME wisdom. others can wallow in retribution and the personal characteristics of the owner (while, of course, not addressing their own failings). that's cool. given this one assumption - Snyder aint goin nowhere - the issue is how does the team move forward. what is needed to build toward success? no matter how slow it might be. and, raunchy as the record has been, realizing we have made progress over the last 4 years. not enough. but a corner has been turned.

if throwing darts is all that matters to some fans: have at it! doesn't get anyone anywhere.the art of the possible is what counts….IMO.

 

[tshile]

The you guys shouldn't be acting as if it's a concrete truth backed by evidence when all evidence we've gotten thus far disproves it. You can say we'll never see it all you want, it doesn't legitamize your belief...which is all you have at this stage...belief. I've learned the hard way over the years to never get worked up and buy all in until there are actual on the record quotes from people. The rest most often turns out to be complete B.S.

Nevertheless you guys keep talking about smoke and fire and Snyder while simultaneously trying to deny the gag inducing blaze coming from the Shanahan camp. It's just nuts to me.

I'm not the one acting like my stance, whatever it is at this point, is concrete truth backed by evidence. I honestly don't know how anyone, at this point, could honestly believe that their opinion is concrete and backed by evidence without being diagnosed as delusional by an unbiased 3rd party.

Seriously - how do you at all feel comfortable with your stance? How did you decide which chicken was worth chassing? There's about 50 of them loose in the room, and for whatever reason you've picked that one.

If you feel comfortable with your opinion on it then kudos. We'll see how it works out.

To me it's nothing but a giant cluster **** and the only people who know what really went on are shanahan, griffin, and snyder and we can't trust a god damn thing either one of them says anymore.

 

[Bulldog]

you don't think that 4 years and 3 double digit loss seasons has shown some degree of patience?

Jack Pardee went 10-6 in 1979 and yet after a 6-10 season in 1980 was then fired by Jack Kent Cooke and Bobby Beathard.

It was the DIRECTION of the franchise as much as the individual season record that was at issue.

I think we have the same situation here.

Don't forget, this offseason we are going to have between $25-30M in cap room to make moves and change to some degree the makeup of this team.

Do you want a guy who has been only middling in his abilities as GM to make these decisions and put whichever coach comes in here in 2015 in a position of having to live with Shanahan's moves for the next 3 or 4 years?

That scares me.

 

[tshile]

again I say how many years does a guy have to keep with the track record Snyder has the last 4 years before this crap stops? A decade? Two? None of you answered this before, it's a legit question.

I haven't seen the question before.

I say I want a good 10 years of knowing Snyder isn't screwing with things before I'll even consider giving him the benefit of the doubt.

And that's just considering it. I have no idea when i'll actually start giving it to him.

Dude's a little shit and done some incredibly screwed up things to people because of his little shit personality.

 

[CounterTrey]

I haven't seen the question before.

I say I want a good 10 years of knowing Snyder isn't screwing with things before I'll even consider giving him the benefit of the doubt.

And that's just considering it. I have no idea when i'll actually start giving it to him.

Dude's a little shit and done some incredibly screwed up things to people because of his little shit personality.

Ten years is absurd...sorry but that's not reasonable at all.

gotta go guys, talk later...getting major upgrade to internet.