The Real Problem in Washington

[Sarge]

Hi guys, long time no post.

I've had a chance to watch all 3 games, and rewatch several plays thanks to TiVo. I know the defense looks ridiculously bad, and RG3 is rusty, but there is a problem at the core of this team that is the real root of the current struggles: The oline.

Yes the defense is getting killed, and the secondary can't cover, but these guys in general have spent way too much time on the field, especially in the first game, and the timing of when our offense has put them back on the field because of turnovers has been absolutely terrible. Against the Lions, the defense was able to make some key stops and key plays.

This oline cannot pass protect up the middle, and they really can't run block that well either without the use of gimmicks. If you watch other games, you just don't see olines getting blown up like the Skins' oline does on a regular basis(except for maybe the Steelers and they're struggling too).

There is nothing worse for a QB than knowing the pressure is coming straight up his face most plays. Especially a young QB coming off an injury.

The number 1 priority moving forward has to be the oline. The defense is going to have to do the best with what they have for the next year or 2 for the most part. Hopefully those rookie DBs will pan out. The only way this team can become a true powerhouse is a rebuild on the oline. Imagine how good RG3 could be with "all day" back there. You can win with a mediocre defense. You can't win without a QB, and you can't win without an oline. If you have both you will always be competitive.

The Redskins must obtain at least 1 stud olineman and draft multiple guys this offseason. I personally believe they need a stud center and to bring in FA to play right guard.

The redskins tricked the fans and themselves into thinking this oline is good last year. This oline is not good at all and RG3 is going to be running for his life all season.

I've been saying this for 15 years. Last year was a fluke because we introduced the read option and cutsey trap blocking. People have that figured out and so we are stuck with the same suck ss O line.

 

[Henry]

You realize the only thing you, and others have posted, is that the media doesn't know what they're talking about and any criticism is just wanting to create drama. I suppose that qualifies for backing it up and manning up.

Not all criticism. Just behind-the-scenes drama. An that is a valid opinion based on a long history of watching the media operate, and actually has nothing to do with what anyone thinks of Griffin. 'Asking questions' is not proof of anything. If it were, I've seen dozens of thread proving 9/11 was an inside job and the moon landing was a hoax.

Message received. Don't say anything negative about griffin around here. No problem, I won't anymore.

Are you seriously playing the martyr card? Is that really what you think of this place, and of us?

 

[Lanky Livingston]

I've been saying this for 15 years. Last year was a fluke because we introduced the read option and cutsey trap blocking. People have that figured out and so we are stuck with the same suck ss O line.

Trap blocking has been around a long time...

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

so has zone blocking

 

[Sarge]

So has a lot of blocking. What hasn't been here in years is smash mouth blocking. It's showing now

 

[tshile]

So has a lot of blocking. What hasn't been here in years is smash mouth blocking. It's showing now

That isn't shanahans style though, right? Isn't he know for smaller, more athletic linemen? He's know for his run game, it's just a different style I believe?

I'm not ready to trash the style that produced a franchise high single season rusher after 3 games :\

 

[GSF]

That isn't shanahans style though, right? Isn't he know for smaller, more athletic linemen? He's know for his run game, it's just a different style I believe?

I'm not ready to trash the style that produced a franchise high single season rusher after 3 games :\

The style isn't the problem. It's the people executing it. In Denver they had multiple pro-bowlers on that line. Yes they were smallish and athletic, but they were also very good at what they did.

When you make the kind of investment the skins did in RG3, you need to do as much as possible to protect that investment.

 

[GSF]

Oline continuing to get blown up play after play against Oakland. Chester and Polumbus getting destroyed. RG3 running for his life. Play calling also stubbornly stupid by KS. Need to go to quick throws from the pistol and get away from the play action.

 

[Bulldog]

The real problem has been the slow starts. You can't consistently give other teams a quarter or half to build up a lead and wear the defense down before you wake up and start playing offense.

It happened again today although the defense was able to keep it close enough to be salvageable in the second half.

Last year the Redskins often started with 7-0 or 14-0 leads in the first quarter and that put pressure on other teams to change their game plan and throw the ball.

The same has been happening to us.

That needs to stop after the break. Whether it is playing no huddle/hurry up in the first quarter to get that first score or being more aggressive with the playcalling, we have to change the dynamic to get off the defensive.

 

[GSF]

Thanks BD, but I have to counter that the oline is a big reason the slow starts. The seem to get blown up the worst early in games when the opposing defense is fresh and energized.

 

[fansince62]

Yes I agree, which is why I want the skins to put all immediate personnel efforts into the oline. RG3 will play the rust off, and develop into a complete QB. That oline isn't getting any better. They have sucked for years, they were just well hid last season due to scheme and RG3's incredible mobility.

Put a few studs in front of RG3 and give him time and confidence. As bad as the defense is, I don't care if the Skins don't make a single upgrade at defense if they pour some resources into the oline. RG3 and Morris in the complete KS offense will be very tough to stop with a stud oline.

so...I'm onboard with your thinking....but IMO.....your objectives entail a fundamental change in offensive scheme. and I don't think the Shanahans will do that.

 

[DieselPwr44]

It doesn't help that we've apparently drafted a boat load of stiffs in Compton,LeRibeus,Gettis and Hurt.

You're talking about guys who can't supplant a dock worker in Polumbus and another guy on bad wheels in Chester.

So much for Player Development.........

 

[TomE]

so...I'm onboard with your thinking....but IMO.....your objectives entail a fundamental change in offensive scheme. and I don't think the Shanahans will do that.

No reason for a fundamental change, unless the fundament relates to thinking that talented athletic lineman can be had on the cheap or late rounds.

A couple of Trent types at the other positions would go a long way in upgrading the line, talented enough to block and protect at a high level within the scheme.

 

[fansince62]

No reason for a fundamental change, unless the fundament relates to thinking that talented athletic lineman can be had on the cheap or late rounds.

A couple of Trent types at the other positions would go a long way in upgrading the line, talented enough to block and protect at a high level within the scheme.

not unreasonable pov. as noted, just not sure Shanahans see it that way.

 

[Bulldog]

You can't protect Griffin in the passing game with a 284 guard and a center just a tad bigger. These guys are getting mauled.

If you need quicker, more agile linemen who can also protect we need to be looking for better prospects higher in the draft.

Searching the waiver wire and looking at street free agents isn't going to do it.

 

[Elephant]

not unreasonable pov. as noted, just not sure Shanahans see it that way.

I gotta think he's changing his way of thinking after seeing the production of this OL this year. I just hope when the team does get better down the stretch, we don't start believing that tyler Polumbus is the answer at RT...

 

[GSF]

Thanks for all replies guys.

so...I'm onboard with your thinking....but IMO.....your objectives entail a fundamental change in offensive scheme. and I don't think the Shanahans will do that.

Nice to see your name 62.

If you are referring to the pistol option I agree. I have no problem with running the option at times during the games, but I feel KS has gone to it way too much this season. I want to see RG3 running the whole offense with the option just being 1 part of it.

 

[GSF]

You can't protect Griffin in the passing game with a 284 guard and a center just a tad bigger. These guys are getting mauled.

If you need quicker, more agile linemen who can also protect we need to be looking for better prospects higher in the draft.

Searching the waiver wire and looking at street free agents isn't going to do it.

The size isn't the problem, it's the talent. Houston's oline is slightly bigger, and they're quite good. As you say, the Skins need to draft talent in the higher rounds and sign or trade for high quality vets. They haven't been doing that for years.

 

[fansince62]

Thanks for all replies guys.




Nice to see your name 62.

If you are referring to the pistol option I agree. I have no problem with running the option at times during the games, but I feel KS has gone to it way too much this season. I want to see RG3 running the whole offense with the option just being 1 part of it.

part of what I was thinking. my thought really isn't all that sophisticated - the Shanahans (at least Mike) have a run first philosophy that goes back decades predicated on the Zone Block Scheme. in the past they have implemented that scheme with smaller but (in theory) quicker, faster, smarter O-linemen. as we are seeing it doesn't work in standard pass-pro situations. I agree with your thought that it is possible to find much bigger, athletic O-linemen these days to sustain the scheme but improve its effectiveness. the big caveat, however, is where do you find these people? the Shanahans are smart and know the same thing - so far they and Allen have not been successful. this, however, has to be countered with the realization that they have basically had to rebuild the entire roster. they had to trade high picks to do it, they made some bad moves (donovan), they have been short-handed by the league (cap hit). the essential thought on your part is correct (or so I at least think) unless they go back to the variation of the run option that succeeded last year - but will eventually get our QB killed - we are stuck in this offensive no-man's land. the etam has clearly not drafted well (aside from trent) when it comes to the O-line, interior of the line can be beaten in pass pro, the RT is high quality back-up on a team with real talent.

it'll be interesting to watch because this team still has, IMO, some glaring problems to fix:

- the inside LBs are gonna need an upgrade sooner rather than later

- the d-line clearly has issues

- the secondary is basically manned (except for Amerson) by players from last years weak unit. safety continues to be a problem with no one who seems able to make a play on the ball or tackle w/o getting hurt or actually bringing the ballcarrier to the ground

- the receiving corps doesn't seem to create separation with its route running. Pierre is gold but the rest? where's the real threat from play to play? I don't see it.

- STs continue to be a near burden and a certain non-contributor

We look set at:

- QB

- TE

- #1 receiver

- RB

- FB

- LT

- FG kicker

- back-up (but not starting) talent on both lines

- back-up talent at LB

lotta roster work, IMO, to be done. this next off-season won't deliver too much more improvement (what the hell do I know just speculating here) except sustain the St Louis rebuild.

My thoughts on the objectives for this season have changed to one: keep RGIII in one piece and let him work his way into playing mode again.

Off-season:

- use new cap room to find at least one quality O-linemen for the interior

- use #2 pick for a real RT

- let go some of the current receiving corps and spend the bucks to get a real threat as the #2 receiver. speed. speed. speed! and real, precise route running.

- start working a scheme that works RG into more of a conventional pocket passer mode; hope like hell Robert adapts and excels

- keep drafting to upgrade the depth

- use the #3 pick or trades to uncover some gem NT so cofield can slide out and become Carricker's real replacement or a high quality rotation player (which more teams are going to have to do to beat these high tempo offensive strategies)

 

[Bulldog]

I agree Shanny and Co will be back next season.

But the Redskins are going to be better even with a new staff because Griffin will be healthy and the team will have $28M in cap room to address some glaring holes.