The unpleasant truth

[Neophyte]

Yes, I understand what the option is. I also understand that we can run straight up running plays from that formation. I also understand that Banks is not an ideal running option. Part of this is game-planning.

Why is Banks not an ideal running option, Lanky? He is averaging 9.7 yards per carry? And yes, part of this is game-planning.

Understand, I don't think he should get the ball 15 times a game. In fact, 3 to 5 is about my top end for this sort of thing but he is a home run threat.

 

[Henry]

So because Griffin is an option QB, he can't hand the ball off normally? Come on.

Of course he can. It got us three points in the first half.

In the second half the option got us 14 points on two straight drives. And despite being down by two scores we managed to run the ball effectively and give our defense a much needed rest while getting back into the game. I have to scratch my head at all the complaining about our coaches being stubborn and unwilling to adapt.

 

[Ax]

My concern about the option is, at the rate the last two weeks have been going, it's as likely to end Robert's season, as it is to work.

The defense's job on the play, is to hit to QB.
Hard.
Every time.
And that they are doing with great pleasure.

My biggest overall concern is the inability of the entire coaching staff to get optimum output from the team. We seem, to me anyway, a team of underachievers. With only a few overachievers sprinkled in. And don't tell me about the talent. They own it. It's their guys. They picked them. They don't seem to know how to motivate them to play better.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Why is Banks not an ideal running option, Lanky? He is averaging 9.7 yards per carry? And yes, part of this is game-planning.

Understand, I don't think he should get the ball 15 times a game. In fact, 3 to 5 is about my top end for this sort of thing but he is a home run threat.

Banks should not be getting 15% of the carries between Morris & Banks. Period. The ratio should be more like 25-3 or even 30-3.

I bet if Morris got the ball 25 times, Banks' runs would be even more successful.

 

[Henry]

Oh I think this team is playing exactly to it's talent level. I think some of you thought our 5-11 team last year was secretly a 10-6 team with a bad QB, but I don't think that's the case.

We'll win some more games this year. I still think we could win 8. Griffin is good and the offense plays well for him. Yesterday we put up 24 points without our top WR or LT. I suspect with those two players back in the lineup our offense can produce without Griffin taking such a pounding, but even without them we can score and that's very refreshing.

Our defense needs to tighten up, though. I think it still can. Maybe it won't and we'll go 6-10 or so like the Panthers last year. I don't think that's terrible. I don't think that means we're spinning our wheels. Not yet anyway. I think it just means this team was always more than just a QB away and now we get to see why.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Ok, i got the total 15 runs mixed up with morris's total runs. My mistake.
He ran the ball 11 times, and royster ran it once.
Thats 12 total runs by actual running backs.

Thats not a fabricated stat, it's a mistake.

See how that comes off? I sounded like a dick, didn't I?

I think you need to look at the drive log. You're twisting the truth. We had 3 drives that started in the 4th quarter. Two of them came down 2 scores with less than 8 minutes to go and no timeouts.

we didn't have the luxury of running the ball at that point and you know it.

We had drives starting with 2:53 left in the third, 4 seconds left in the third, and 11:24 left in the 4th. The scores were 24-24, 24-24, and 24-31 when those drives began. Morris got the ball twice.

Didn't have the luxury of running the ball? If you ask me, that's exactly when you WANT to run and control the clock, but that's just me.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Redskins started drives at the Bengals 47 and their own 47 in the third quarter, and got zero points. That can't happen - have to take advantage of field position.

On a side note, it appears that Wilson was not touched on the fumble recovery, and should have scored his second TD of the season. Whoever said the replacement refs would go the other way after all the publicity about home teams was 100% right. Fudge.

 

[Neophyte]

You seem stuck on Morris, Lanky. What's the deal? This team ran the ball 34 times yesterday for 213 yards. Tell me that if someone had told you that on Friday you wouldn't have loved it. I would have. And doubt either of us would have stopped and asked who had more carries.

12 of those carries were by Griffin and many of his carries are off the option read meaning the defense was keyed on Morris so he took the best option available, the keeper. What I am getting from you this morning is that you would rather him have handed off to Morris regardless of what the defense and let Morris get more carries but not get nearly the yards.

 

[tshile]

See how that comes off? I sounded like a dick, didn't I?

Yeah, because I had already posted the correct numbers. It was clearly just a mistake, not a lack of doing the research before commenting on the situation.

We had drives starting with 2:53 left in the third,

3 and out:
1 run to start the drive
1 sack for minus 8 yards
1 throw on 3rd and 18.

Come on...

4 seconds left in the third,

3 and out:
1 incomplete pass
2 runs for a total of 9 yards
so....?

and 11:24 left in the 4th.

5 and out:
1 complete pass
2 runs
2 incomplete passes

....

The scores were 24-24, 24-24, and 24-31 when those drives began. Morris got the ball twice.

Didn't have the luxury of running the ball? If you ask me, that's exactly when you WANT to run and control the clock, but that's just me.

I really think you need to review the drive log a little closer:
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/20120...enu=highlights&tab=analyze&analyze=playbyplay

The game did not play out in the second half the way you keep suggesting it did...

Redskins started drives at the Bengals 47 and their own 47 in the third quarter, and got zero points. That can't happen - have to take advantage of field position.

On a side note, it appears that Wilson was not touched on the fumble recovery, and should have scored his second TD of the season. Whoever said the replacement refs would go the other way after all the publicity about home teams was 100% right. Fudge.

That was me

 

[Elephant]

I'm with Lanky on this one. Henry, you said the option got us 14 points on 2 straight drives in the 2nd half which is not true. The first drive of the 2nd half was Morris pounding the ball, a switch to Royster for a nice gain, a couple of quick strikes to Fred Davis once Morris got the defesne loosened up and Morris pounding it in from 7 yards out.

Side note: Watching the Ravens last night, I swear Alfred Morris is a spittin' image of Ray Rice, maybe not quite as quick.

On the next drive they started running that option with Banks, and while having a little success with it, like Kyle always does...he used it too many times instead of letting the defense know it was there and getting back to pounding your work horse like you did on the first drive.

Morris is proving he can get the job done. Royster can come in a few plays to spell him, Helu can too. But the fancy plays Kyle comes up with get us killed and it always seems to happen toward the end of the 3rd quarter after success when we have the chance to stick the dagger in!

After the fumble we had a chance to take complete control of that game. We had just gone 2 drives with tremendous success. We switched it up on the 2nd drive with the option, why not go back and use Morris like they did on the 1st drive? Kyle has become so predicatble in this respect. It happens every time we have success early in the 3rd quarter. Just stick to what works...sprinkle in the fancy stuff as you are driving, not to start the drive. He'd do that with Rex last year and that is when you'd see Rex say..."**** it!" This year it's been a splattering of questionable calls at the wrong moment...when we have success with the game plan we had been running.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Yeah, because I had already posted the correct numbers. It was clearly just a mistake, not a lack of doing the research before commenting on the situation.

T, its obvious we will just have to agree to disagree. We have different ideas of what the run game should be, and those will not coincide. Maybe you can come down off the high horse of your opinion a bit and stop accusing others of fabricating stuff though.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

You seem stuck on Morris, Lanky. What's the deal? This team ran the ball 34 times yesterday for 213 yards. Tell me that if someone had told you that on Friday you wouldn't have loved it. I would have. And doubt either of us would have stopped and asked who had more carries.

12 of those carries were by Griffin and many of his carries are off the option read meaning the defense was keyed on Morris so he took the best option available, the keeper. What I am getting from you this morning is that you would rather him have handed off to Morris regardless of what the defense and let Morris get more carries but not get nearly the yards.

I don't want Griffin carrying the ball 12 times for 85 yards. Yes, that Newman shot was a cheap shot, but he took it nonetheless. Opposing defenses have made it clear that their one and only goal is to hit RG3 as hard as possible on every snap. I have no doubt that's how they're being coached, and I have no doubt that it will continue for the rest of year.

So no, if on Friday you had told me we will run 34 times for 213 yards but that 12 carries for 85 yards would come from Griffin, I would not have been happy. There's a reason teams don't run the option in the NFL - its because you get your QB killed.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

I'm with Lanky on this one. Henry, you said the option got us 14 points on 2 straight drives in the 2nd half which is not true. The first drive of the 2nd half was Morris pounding the ball, a switch to Royster for a nice gain, a couple of quick strikes to Fred Davis once Morris got the defesne loosened up and Morris pounding it in from 7 yards out.

Side note: Watching the Ravens last night, I swear Alfred Morris is a spittin' image of Ray Rice, maybe not quite as quick.

On the next drive they started running that option with Banks, and while having a little success with it, like Kyle always does...he used it too many times instead of letting the defense know it was there and getting back to pounding your work horse like you did on the first drive.

Morris is proving he can get the job done. Royster can come in a few plays to spell him, Helu can too. But the fancy plays Kyle comes up with get us killed and it always seems to happen toward the end of the 3rd quarter after success when we have the chance to stick the dagger in!

After the fumble we had a chance to take complete control of that game. We had just gone 2 drives with tremendous success. We switched it up on the 2nd drive with the option, why not go back and use Morris like they did on the 1st drive? Kyle has become so predicatble in this respect. It happens every time we have success early in the 3rd quarter. Just stick to what works...sprinkle in the fancy stuff as you are driving, not to start the drive. He'd do that with Rex last year and that is when you'd see Rex say..."**** it!" This year it's been a splattering of questionable calls at the wrong moment...when we have success with the game plan we had been running.

Yes, this is 100% correct. Even if I conceded that we did not "abandon" the run, I have a problem with Kyle's adherence to running the gimmick play.

I remember a game last year, I forget who the opponent was. We were moving the ball nicely with normal plays, and then all of a sudden Kyle calls this gimmick direct-snap to Santana. Loss on the play, drive stalled. This type of infuriating play-calling is happening every week!

 

[Henry]

El, if we called more traditional runs than I remember that reinforces my point rather than contradicting it. We didn't abandon the run in that game.

Are we still REALLY complaining that our offense only put up 21 points in the second half ... primarily by running the ball?

 

[Elephant]

El, if we called more traditional runs than I remember that reinforces my point rather than contradicting it. We didn't abandon the run in that game.

Are we still REALLY complaining that our offense only put up 21 points in the second half ... primarily by running the ball?

Henry, you should stick with what works, we abandoned what was working...then when the defense adjusts...you adjust. We had just had tremendous success with the traditional approach the 1st drive of the second half. Give it a shot, it's what opens up the trick plays. Don't adjust to get fancy...adjust when it is warranted or occasionally throw in something that will keep them on their toes. Kyle always abandons what works because he likes to get fancy...far too often.

The problem is not putting up the points, the problem is we are going to get Griffin destroyed. Will he become gun shy if he keeps getting hit like he has the 1st few games? I doubt it, the kid is tough as nails. Will he end up like Vick...struggling to get up after every hit after years of taking them? Yeah, I am afraid that is what could happen.

 

[tshile]

T, its obvious we will just have to agree to disagree. We have different ideas of what the run game should be, and those will not coincide. Maybe you can come down off the high horse of your opinion a bit and stop accusing others of fabricating stuff though.

Saying we 'abandoned' the run is a total fabrication of the game. We relied on the run in the 2nd half.

This sort of thing is done often in this fan base (and possibly others?) after a lose. It's part of the immediate, emotional reaction to the game. It's based on what you think you saw. There are lot of people who think we ran banks to to much when the reality is he only ran the ball 3 times...

It's not about being on a high horse. It's about reading the play by play log. You've been wrong in every attempt to defend the idea that we abandoned the run. We turned to the run with the exception of the last 2 drives in which there was less than 8 minutes, we were down 2 scores, and we had no timeouts; a situation in which we couldn't afford to run the ball.

That's all I saying. The numbers prove how many times the team ran the ball.

If anything the coaching staff should be praised for having the guts to run the ball to start the second half down by two scores when we were unable to stop the Bengals at all. (thats not to suggest that the coaching staff didn't make other mistakes...)

 

[Goaldeje]

El, if we called more traditional runs than I remember that reinforces my point rather than contradicting it. We didn't abandon the run in that game.

Are we still REALLY complaining that our offense only put up 21 points in the second half ... primarily by running the ball?

Henry, you're looking at it holistically, which can be good. But I am looking at individual drives in the 3rd and 4th Qs, and am frustrated. We did commit to the run early in the 3rd, and then seemed content to run razzle-dazzle BS once we got within striking distance. My belief (which is impossible to prove - but also impossible to disprove ) is that had we kept running Morris or Royster on more traditional runs, things might have been better for us.

Oh, and by the way... Really? REALLY? You're the one preaching sunshine and rainbows? REALLY?

 

[Henry]

El, putting up points is ALWAYS a problem. Either we're trying to score or we're not.

If you guys want to 'save' Griffin for next season, fine. But don't complain if we go back to scoring 18 points a game. And for goodness sake don't complain about the playcalling being too conservative. K?

I said it before, this is the guy we drafted. This is his game, and he's really good at it. Either we tailor the offense to his strengths or plug a square peg into a round hole and accept the outcome.

 

[Neophyte]

I really don't believe we are going here. At all.

Our team scored 31 points, we lost, and all we can gripe about is the Offense? Really?

The Offense is NOT the problem guys. Seriously.

 

[Henry]

Yes Goal, it's frustrating that we didn't score on every single drive of the second half. That is apparently the only was our offense can keep up with our defense.

And I'm not sure how I turned out to be The Optimist around here. It's a little unsettling.