I'd just as soon see him finish out the season and get the experience. They 'should' be able to scheme to protect him better. That has also been a huge failing of the Shanahan's. He was still mobile this year if not as gazelle like as last. They could have handled this all much better.
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Will Griffin succeed as a Pocket passer?
- Thread starter stevenaa
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Bulldog
The Legend
You can't properly evaluate Griffin because Shanahan like Spurrier runs a system that places only a modest value in protecting the qb.
Coaches like Gibbs, Parcells, Bellichick know you have to invest in your OL because protecting the qb is the real key to stability and consistent success.
Shanahan builds his team from the outside in, and that is the opposite of what you see most other teams do.
Coaches like Gibbs, Parcells, Bellichick know you have to invest in your OL because protecting the qb is the real key to stability and consistent success.
Shanahan builds his team from the outside in, and that is the opposite of what you see most other teams do.
Ax
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Well, let's make some lemonade.
Robert, who I believe was said would be running the scout team in practice, will be running offenses the next three weeks, of pocket passers, running traditional NFL offenses.
His offseason program has already begun
Robert, who I believe was said would be running the scout team in practice, will be running offenses the next three weeks, of pocket passers, running traditional NFL offenses.
His offseason program has already begun
Bulldog
The Legend
God knows we have had enough lemons 
Given his arm, feet, and what we think we know by now about his smarts, character and work ethic, the only way I can see a healthy Robert Griffin III failing to develop as an NFL passer would be if proves unable to process information in the pocket at elite NFL levels, and get the ball out on time.
That inability is what kept Jason Campbell from ever becoming what his measurables suggested he could be. The lack of quick-twitch delivery mechanics didn't help, but mostly it was that the game never slowed down enough for him to get through progressions and release the ball.
Robert has shown me flashes of that quick-process ability, but he's got a long way to go. Not seeing open guys is a symptom of the game still moving a bit too fast for him. But give him a competent OL pass protecting in front of him, some weapons he can count on, and some time to develop, and I think in 2-3 years we'll all be having a hard time remembering a time we actually entertained the idea that this unusual cat might not be able to play the position.
That inability is what kept Jason Campbell from ever becoming what his measurables suggested he could be. The lack of quick-twitch delivery mechanics didn't help, but mostly it was that the game never slowed down enough for him to get through progressions and release the ball.
Robert has shown me flashes of that quick-process ability, but he's got a long way to go. Not seeing open guys is a symptom of the game still moving a bit too fast for him. But give him a competent OL pass protecting in front of him, some weapons he can count on, and some time to develop, and I think in 2-3 years we'll all be having a hard time remembering a time we actually entertained the idea that this unusual cat might not be able to play the position.
Cycleans
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tshile
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griffin will be a great pocket passer.
i think he's being humbled, and i think that'll drive him to come back even better in 2014.
i think he's being humbled, and i think that'll drive him to come back even better in 2014.
bird_1972
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Honest question(s):
Do you think hard work can overcome poor pocket presence? How about his inability to read defenses and get rid of the ball quickly and accurately in the face of a double-A gap blitz?
If he can't improve those things, he will never be an elite NFL QB. Right now he looks like an elite college QB. We didn't give up multiple first rounders to move up in the draft and take an elite college QB.
tshile
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Yes.
I think Griffin's shortcomings that are his biggest hinderance are his ego, his instinct to run too much, and his two injuries to his knee.
I think his best traits include his athleticism and his intelligence.
So yes, I think he's capable of figuring out the mental parts of the game just fine. You can say what you want about him, but one thing no one can say is that he's stupid. He's an incredibly smart individual. He needs to mature, and spend his next offseason working on his game instead of his knee.
Do we forget he lead the league in accuracy and looked phenomenal last year?
bird_1972
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You know who also isn't stupid? Ryan Fitzpatrick. He doesn't read defenses well. He has no pocket presence. He hasn't learned any of these.
RG3 gets a pass because he is so athletic, that he can get out of difficult situations with his legs. That isn't a viable long-term strategy.
I fear that smarts aren't enough to re-train his body to instinctually slide away from pressure and step up in the pocket. Can he learn to make adjustments at the line? Predict blitzes? Anticipate coverage? Throw WR open? Get rid of the ball quickly to counter blitzes (a la P Manning and Brady)?
I'm not so sure...
tshile
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Did he have a year like Griffin's last year?
I think he has some pro's and cons. The cons he has are the kind of cons you want with a young QB you traded a lot for. Just my opinion.
bird_1972
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I'm not trying to be combative with you. In fact, I'm hoping you are correct.
I just have lost confidence based on the poor decisions and inaccuracy I've seen from him this year. Perhaps last year was a function of RG3 catching the league on its heels with a gimmicky read-option look that had defensive coordinators struggling to play catch up while it lead to easy open looks down the field.
No read-option (ie, conventional pocket-based offense) has revealed RG3 to be a QB who is lacking in basic skills needed to run an NFL offense at a high level. Sure his OL is awful, but so is Aaron Rodgers and even P Manning has had to deal with multiple injuries on his OL. They get around it by making things happen outside of the pocket (Rodgers) and reading defenses and getting rid of the ball quickly (Manning). So far, RG3 doesn't look like he's anywhere close to doing either of these. Wilson, on the other hand, has less raw ability than RG3 yet has shown he has "it". A knack for knowing how to make things happen on the run without having to run. The ability to look off WRs and make smart football decisions.
I hope you are right and I am wrong, but I'm worried. Really worried.
The Shannahan drama just adds to my concern/frustration.
tshile
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I know, you're not
It's end of the week so I'm optimistic. On Monday I'll be back in pessimistic mode saying burn it to ground again, we're doomed.
Flip flopping is fun, so next year no matter what happens I can any I was right.
McD5
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Tshile, you are discounting possibly the biggest con--2 ACLs.
In 2004, Culpepper threw for 39 TDs and 11 Ints. He led the league. In 2005 he tore his ACL, and was never the same again. Specifically, his accuracy disappeared.
He went from throwing perfect strikes to overthrowing his WRs all over the field.
Experts from Jaws to Steve Young all pointed out how he developed some sort of a "hitch" that changed his throwing motion forever. He was finished.
Times have changed and science has improved. But RG3 has had two of these surgeries now. I've seen some amazing overthrows this season.
It would be comforting to have an example of another QB who recovered successfully from 2 of these.
In 2004, Culpepper threw for 39 TDs and 11 Ints. He led the league. In 2005 he tore his ACL, and was never the same again. Specifically, his accuracy disappeared.
He went from throwing perfect strikes to overthrowing his WRs all over the field.
Experts from Jaws to Steve Young all pointed out how he developed some sort of a "hitch" that changed his throwing motion forever. He was finished.
Times have changed and science has improved. But RG3 has had two of these surgeries now. I've seen some amazing overthrows this season.
It would be comforting to have an example of another QB who recovered successfully from 2 of these.
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tshile
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I'm not discounting it. I promise you I'm aware of the significance of our franchise qb having two major knee surgeries before starting his second year.
bird_1972
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The only problem I have with the Culpepper comparison is that I always felt that it was the departure of R. Moss, and not the knee so much, that effected him. He never really proved to be anything without him in the lineup.
Just my 2 cents.
McD5
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He didn't have Randy Moss in college.
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Wilson looks like Tom Brady on wheels at times. I guess some people just hate Seattle too much to see that he's doing all the things right that we'd like to see RG3 doing soon and it has nothing to do with his team being better. He's making plays throwing to receivers who nobody can name while being chased by 3-4 pass rushers constantly.
Cycleans
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It's called good coaching . Wilson has it Griffin doesn't.
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