Which Side Are You On?

[Boone]

I think that's pretty dead-on Billfish, except that I don't think most fans put players on a pedestal. They're just obsessed with the game and willing to overlook the ego's and idiocy of 50%+ of the mental midgets that occupy a good portion of the NFL player ranks. There are good guys in the NFL, don't get me wrong, but it's not your father's NFL. In today's league, being a selfish 'look at me' clown pays.

I don't lay it on the fans - most fans love the game, not individuals. It's the 24 hour sports media and NFL marketing division that promotes a lot of the nonsense that has very little to do with the game itself.

 

[Billfishead]

I think that's pretty dead-on Billfish, except that I don't think most fans put players on a pedestal. They're just obsessed with the game and willing to overlook the ego's and idiocy of 50%+ of the mental midgets that occupy a good portion of the NFL player ranks. There are good guys in the NFL, don't get me wrong, but it's not your father's NFL. In today's league, being a selfish 'look at me' clown pays.

I don't lay it on the fans - most fans love the game, not individuals. It's the 24 hour sports media and NFL marketing division that promotes a lot of the nonsense that has very little to do with the game itself.

I agree with you, but I think we (the fans) help fuel the fire. If we stop, the frenzy will die down faster because it will have nothing to feed off of. This is onetime, "the ignore it, it will go away" scenario might actually work.

 

[servumtuum]

I got curious and wondered if this kind of poll might be taking place on other team fan forums so I got to digging and it turns out there are several going on. Here's the results I've been able to come up with as of 11:55 AM EST.

The percentages reflect toward which side the voters are sympathetic.


Atlanta Falcons
owners-74%
players-26%

Detroit Lions
players-61%
owners-39%

Indianapolis Colts
owners-50%
players-50%

Green Bay Packers
owners-86%
players-14%

Houston Texans
owners-21%
players-20%
on the fence-7%
neither I just want some football-52%

Miami Dolphins
owners-87%
players-13%

New England Patriots
owners-38%
players-24%
I don't care-38%

San Francisco 49ers
owners-57%
players-43%

There is a generic poll that came up on both the Baltimore Ravens and Philadelphia Eagles 24x7 sites, done by the 24x7 hosting people.

owners-31%
players-22%
I don't care anymore they're ruining it for me-47%

Some of these results are, as you can see, interesting-particularly the effect of offering three or more options.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

LOL at the Packers' fans siding with the owners...they ARE the owners!

 

[Bulldog]

Jones and Snyder started a lot of these issues with their profligate spending that escalated salaries far in advance of where they were going under the market conditions before their actions.

Anyone remember Deion Sanders, $35M deal back in 1995?

And of course we have Snyder's deals for Coles, Hall and Haynesworth which were way in excess of the comparables at the time.

So, now the players are looking at those deals and questioning how hard up the owners really are?
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[Miles Monroe]

I'm also siding with the owners. IMO, unions have ruined this country over time, and this is just one more fine example. While I'm not saying the players don't deserve a fair deal, I have no sympathy when it comes to the argument that they sacrifice their bodies and pay the price while the owners get rich off them. They get paid a hell of a lot of money to play the game, and fully know the risks, both short and long term. Football is a product, and you sell a product to make a profit. It about as normal as it gets... player is the manufacturer selling his product to the distributor, the team. Dangerous sports pay big, but the NFL is special in that it's made up of mostly prim a dona's. Ya don't see professional racers doing all this whining, and they have a far higher risk of life altering injury or death. I couldn't even venture a guess on the percentage of higher risk. They make a bucket load of money to race.... that's the trade off. Many players make more then professional racers, so suck it up, plan for your future like everybody does, and get that whiny millionaire ass on the field. If you can't secure your future after making multiple millions every year over a 5 to 10 year period, you deserve to be broke and batered.

Gary hit a good point also. Why should the owners have to open their books. Try walkin into your boss and saying I want more money, and you need to open up your books so I can decide how much you can give me. Most folks would be looking for employment fairly fast.

I'm also in favor of not letting rookies coming into the league get the huge payday. College isn't the pros, and yet the top draft picks get paid a huge amount of money before ever playing a down. I'm not one to pay on speculation alone, so I can't fault the owners for feeling that way.

I really love the game, even as it has gotten watered down since I was a kid. It's really a shame it came to this. Next thing you know, the players are going to want a trainer to shake their johnsons after they take a squirt.

 

[Goaldeje]

Nice post, Miles. I actually feel mostly the same way. It is infuriating, however, to read about the PSL's and the parking fees and experience the $15 beers that I'm forced to grab my ankles for and not feel some anger at the owners as well. Clearly, both sides are so far out of touch with any of us on this board and any average American, it makes rooting for one side or the other exceptionally difficult.

 

[riggins44]

The more I hear players whining, calling Goodell names, and planning stupid things like an offsite draft event the more I favor the owners. You got to give the owners credit for keeping quiet.

Smith needs to get the players in check. There is Barnett and Peterson shooting off at the mouth, plus Ochocinco skipping on a $11K clothing bill. They are doing hurting their own cause.

Pete is right about professional racers and the risks they take. To add one thing, racers also have a greater appreciation for the fans. They understand without us they wouldn't get paid what they do.

NASCAR is seeing a drop in attendance and popularity. The NFL and players should take this as a warning and do what they can to help the fans versus pissing them off.

 

[Elephant]

Nice post, Miles. I actually feel mostly the same way. It is infuriating, however, to read about the PSL's and the parking fees and experience the $15 beers that I'm forced to grab my ankles for and not feel some anger at the owners as well. Clearly, both sides are so far out of touch with any of us on this board and any average American, it makes rooting for one side or the other exceptionally difficult.

See, here's something I just can't buy either. You don't have to grab your ankles. I went to 7 games last year and never got fleeced for any of the stuff you mention.

Eat before you go to the game and you won't spend 10 bucks on a hot dog. There is nothing that says you have to drink beer while you're in there. If you spend 15 bucks on a beer, that's on you not the owners.

 

[Goaldeje]

Fair enough, El. Now go read the Sally Jenkins article about how the owners hold localities hostage over stadium deals. Tell me how they don't owe us a season.

 

[Elephant]

Fair enough, El. Now go read the Sally Jenkins article about how the owners hold localities hostage over stadium deals. Tell me how they don't owe us a season.

I'm not saying the owners are completely clean in this, but I believe the owners have more to stand on in this dispute. The players are making demands that are out of the ordinary as Pete touched upon. You think I like what a guy like Dan Snyder has done to our beloved Redskins? I also don't buy into the employee demanding more from their employers when they already make more than the avg person will see in their lifetime, claiming they are taking risks that are unique.

For 8 years I climbed up a ladder to spend the day on a roof. I made decent money for a 23 yr old kid who was **** strong and dumb as hell. Never once did I demand of my boss that I should earn more than I did. I was just happy to be working. If I felt I deserved more I would discuss it with my boss. If he said no, I sought work elsewhere. If I couldn't find it, I did what my father told me, I ate crap!

I have not had the time to read Jenkins article but I put little credence in what she says. A lot of what I have read from her when it comes to football seems to be from the standpoint of a bitter woman.

 

[Goaldeje]

I understand, El. I just don't agree. We live in a free market society, the players are trying to get the most money they can, good for them. If they don't get the money, the owners will, and that doesn't overjoy me. I hate what both sides are doing to the game I love, but I can understand why the players are doing this. If my boss was threatening to drop my pay and/or benefits, and I could get them to hold the line by banding together to form a union, cool. I'm gonna try it.

But I get your perspective too. I just respectfully don't agree with ALL of it.

 

[Elephant]

I understand, El. I just don't agree. We live in a free market society, the players are trying to get the most money they can, good for them. If they don't get the money, the owners will, and that doesn't overjoy me. I hate what both sides are doing to the game I love, but I can understand why the players are doing this. If my boss was threatening to drop my pay and/or benefits, and I could get them to hold the line by banding together to form a union, cool. I'm gonna try it.

But I get your perspective too. I just respectfully don't agree with ALL of it.

I knew we disagreed on this issue before I wrote that. That's ok, I respect your POV. What I don't understand is that you make it sound like the players don't have a choice. Not sure if that is your understanding, but that's what I gather from your argument.

The players do have a choice. Just ask Barry Sanders. He had the chance to be etched into the annals of NFL history as the all-time leading rusher. He didn't like what his team was doing so he retired.

I don't disagree with the fact players should want more money, I just think the way they are going about it is wrong! If you don't like it, don't play! Sanders gave up the chance to break a record that will likely never be broken again. Let the agents do their job and get the players their market value. If you don't like, go play in Canada!

 

[Goaldeje]

I hear you, I know they have a choice. Sort of. Let's be honest, most of these players come from low income families, and this is their meal ticket to a better life. Maybe they can choose not to play as long, I will absolutely buy that argument. But if their choice is living in the crappy neighborhoods and communities where they grew up, or to go after a bigger life, sure they CAN choose not to go after the better life, but for how many people, realistically, is that a real choice?

 

[Miles Monroe]

Nice post, Miles. I actually feel mostly the same way. It is infuriating, however, to read about the PSL's and the parking fees and experience the $15 beers that I'm forced to grab my ankles for and not feel some anger at the owners as well. Clearly, both sides are so far out of touch with any of us on this board and any average American, it makes rooting for one side or the other exceptionally difficult.

Agreed, it is hard to clearly take a side. I know how you feel about the prices of things, but unfortunately it that way at most attractions or venues. I paid over 70 bucks a seat for the second to last row to see Crosby Stills, and Nash last Sept. Go to Disney world, and when you get your credit card statement, you'll feel like you were violated by a mouse. Even at the movies, you're getting bent over. Five fifty for popcorn that cost all of 89 cents to make... yet we keep paying. I don't like it, but do accept it.

 

[Miles Monroe]

claiming they are taking risks that are unique.

That's a huge sore spot for me. Even at the Vet minimum, these guys are making nice money, far more then millions who have far more dangerous jobs. Hell, there's still a huge part of this country protected by volunteer firefighters.

Hell, I had a motorcycle fall off a lift a couple of weeks ago. Had I been about two fee to the left, and having "cat like" reflexes , there would have been just under 800 lbs landing on me. I could have easily been injured far worse, or killed. I've been run off the road countless times by people who shouldn't be behind the wheel of a car. I have had everything from cinder blocks to queen sized mattresses fall from vehicles in front of me at highway speeds while road testing.

Some players have higher bar tabs then I make in a year. I'm cool with that, what I do doesn't generate billions of dollars for my boss. There risk is unique, they only put it on the line about 20 weeks out of the year, where as most people with more dangerous jobs do it year round.

Friggin Millie's...

 

[Neophyte]

I hear you, I know they have a choice. Sort of. Let's be honest, most of these players come from low income families, and this is their meal ticket to a better life. Maybe they can choose not to play as long, I will absolutely buy that argument. But if their choice is living in the crappy neighborhoods and communities where they grew up, or to go after a bigger life, sure they CAN choose not to go after the better life, but for how many people, realistically, is that a real choice?

It isn't a choice. They have to go for it. But it isn't like they are hurting now if they get it. Rookie minimum in the league for a guy on the 53 man roster is more than most of us can make in 4 or 5 years of work. And they get that even if they are never made active for a single game in that year. If they guys would use their heads and invest that money instead of living like a rockstar, a 4 or 5 year career in the league might not keep them from working ever again but it would set up a darn nice retirement for when they were through working in whatever field they studied with that free education they got in college.

Oh...wait...

The bottom line is that these guys are employees and are better paid than just about any employee I know of in this country. And the number of folks with more dangerous jobs who make a fraction of the money is staggering.

 

[servumtuum]

A thought occurred to me relating to this subject. In view of the change in the television coverage of the NFL draft last year and the resulting record-setting ratings it will be interesting to me to see if those viewership ratings this off-season suffer a drop-off. This may be at least a partial indicator of the general public's reaction to the entire CBA/lockout situation.

 

[Goaldeje]

Serv, that's an excellent question. I will be very interested see if here is any drop off this year. And if so, how quickly they ignore it.

Neo, i hear you. As most of the board knows, my wide is a teacher, and while it is not a particularly dangerous job, I know she is worth far more money than any of these fools make. However, that's not the way the system works. For whatever reason, we overvalue entertainment in this country. Because of the prices we as consumers are willing to pay for tickets, concessions, parking, jerseys, etc., we set e market value for the entertainers way too high. So they should go get as much money as possible. Yes, there are folks with life threatening jobs who make a fraction of what these fools make. Unfortunately, we as a society seem to value entertainers more than firefighters and teachers. I still argue that ANY of us would not simply roll over if our bosses were announcing a substantial pay cut. Now, maybe we would accept it given the poor economy, but i don't think we would roll over so easily if we knew our company was having a record year and enjoying record TV deals and profits.

Maybe that's just me though.

I think they should fight for ever dime they can get. Get it while they can. The argument that they should see we are in a recession and understand a lot of their fans are out of work and have less money is emotional, but should be directed at the owners, not the players. The owners should be dropping prices across the board and would do so during these times if they cared about the players a fraction as much as they say they do.

Both sides are fools. And to Servs point, i wonder how much this will damage relationships with fans long term.
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[Elephant]

A thought occurred to me relating to this subject. In view of the change in the television coverage of the NFL draft last year and the resulting record-setting ratings it will be interesting to me to see if those viewership ratings this off-season suffer a drop-off. This may be at least a partial indicator of the general public's reaction to the entire CBA/lockout situation.

If there is no season, I believe it will have a drastic effect. I think the NFL will recover much faster than Baseball or Hockey, but the short term effect will be damaging. If there is a partial season, I think it will have little effect. A full season? No effect.