Ax
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As is every RB's who ever played the game.
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where do we go from here?
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Goaldeje
The Legend
Ax
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Well then, I'll be damned.
And in other news, it is now being reported, that water is wet.
I would agree with your argument.. if our RB wasn't second in the league in rushing.. So you can call it "inflated" and "misleading" but the fact is that Morris is still at the top of the list in yardage. Yes Griffin is responsible for a lot of the yards we've gained, but when you have a rookie on the heels of arguably the best RB in the GAME, you cant completely discount that accomplishment.
Also, as stated by a couple other guys, this is the first time 5 guys have started together in a long time.. This key fact here is why i don't want to blow this thing up. They need time to gel. They need time to learn each other. Unlike skill positions, a group of Linemen CAN be greater then the sum of their parts.
You cant get a true grasp of a linemen's talent until they have experience and work as a unit. A DB/WR can go out and stand alone, on an island, and it can be very easy to see deficiencies. That being said an O-Linemen can get blown off the ball but it goes a lot deeper then a one on one situation, especially with a zone scheme where everything is based on movement and position.
My whole point to this thing was to say stop blowing the whistle, and for lack of a better term, ringing the sky falling alarm because we lost a football game... and the reason we lost the game had nothing to do with the unit you were referencing.
CounterTrey
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Oh I dunno ST, the sack of Griffin on the last drive was a guy getting blown off the ball, I'd say the O line absolutely had an effect on that loss. Not as much as a secondary that can't cover deep on a 2 minute drill, but if they make that block who knows what Griff does?
That's absolutely true, but i'm not talking "what ifs" here. Statistically speaking, Griffin has the highest passer rating in the NFL when he's being blitzed, While a lot of that has to to do with his quick release and fast thought process, it also has to do with the line being able to, if even just a split second, giving him time. It means that more often then not, they're holding their ground. Not every offensive line can be like the 91' Skins and give up single digit sacks. It's going to happen.
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thats the point st, if he gets even a split second he makes plays what if we gave him a decent pocket and some time?
as for morriss, if he got more blocks he would be insane.
as for morriss, if he got more blocks he would be insane.
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You would think wouldnt you? but there is a vast difference between a natural 5 ypc average and a guy who is busting a 30 then getting 3 carries for negative or short yards, then averaging 3-4. Barry sanders made a lot of superlative runs even his 3-4 yard carries were often fun to watch but he almost never had great olinemn in front of him, imagine if he had had a line the cowboys or skins of the early ninieties?
Ax
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I agree. But there isn't a running back in the history of the NFL that didn't have their average greatly influenced by their longer runs. Including Barry Sanders.
I hope for improved line play too. But right now, they're not the unit holding this team back. Better play would certainly give the offense the chance to do even more of their fair share than they're already doing, but they're playing better than our secondary.
Much better.
And yeah, I know. That's not saying much.
Bulldog
The Legend
Lanky, you make my point for me.
Both the Giants and Texans lose guys to free agency or age, etc and yet they are able to construct lines that prevent their qbs from having to run for their lives.
What I would like to see here is consistency in personnel, yes, but in personnel that has demonstrable upside.
To get a 28/29 year old Chester and a 28/29 year old Monty to go along with Lchtensteiger at 27 and Polumbus at 27 does not exactly look to me like a unit that is going to show significant long-term improvement.
By the time you are 27 or 28 on the OL you are what you are.
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Both the Giants and Texans lose guys to free agency or age, etc and yet they are able to construct lines that prevent their qbs from having to run for their lives.
What I would like to see here is consistency in personnel, yes, but in personnel that has demonstrable upside.
To get a 28/29 year old Chester and a 28/29 year old Monty to go along with Lchtensteiger at 27 and Polumbus at 27 does not exactly look to me like a unit that is going to show significant long-term improvement.
By the time you are 27 or 28 on the OL you are what you are.
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i was referencing split second on blitzes.. thats when they're bringing the house, and Morris has blocks... he has a holes to hit and he hits them well. You want to blow this unit up but even if we could afford 5 pro bowl O-lineman, they're not going to be any better, simply because it's a new scheme and new team. These guys know what they need to do, and the vast majority of the time they execute it well.
This isn't the Hogs.... its never going to be that. What we have is a serviceable unit that we can contend with. We have other things we need to address for more important then the O-line.
Very true, if you've been in the same scheme, with the same system for 4 years out of college... Were in year 3 right now with this scheme and we've had the same guys in there. Is this their peak? Maybe. If so, I'm not upset with it, because it means were obviously a lot closer to the upside then we thought at the beginning of the season.
Bottom line is the offense can function adequately with the line we have. The defense cannot function adequately with the secondary we have. Improving the OL should be on the list, but the secondary should be our top priority this offseason.
tshile
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Personally I don't see that big of a drop off without Carriker and Orakpo. We weren't good at pressure when they were in there.
Absolutely. I honestly feel that Shanny didn't let Allen and Haslett address the secondary because they expected to not only have Orakpo, but also Carriker coming from the interior line.
Orakpo had 9 sacks last year and 5 passes defended, with 3 Forced Fumbles
Carriker had 5.5 sacks last year.... together you're talking about almost an additional sack per game were missing... which can be huge.
Dead Money
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I think a lot of you think that we were getting good pass rush before rak and carriker went out. We really weren't and now were not getting a rush at all. That's (PARTLY) why our secondary looked like ass at the beginning of the season and why now they are completely pathetic. No pass rush at all whatsoever.
NT is a big hole in this defense the way it is constructed. We're not anywhere near where we need to be in our front 3. Coefield is not a NT.
I'm not talking about last year... I'm talking about this yr.
NT is a big hole in this defense the way it is constructed. We're not anywhere near where we need to be in our front 3. Coefield is not a NT.
I'm not talking about last year... I'm talking about this yr.
tshile
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Well, if only last year meant anything about this year, then that'd matter
This year, with Orakpo and Carriker in the lineup:
rams - 2 sacks for 9 yards (1 was orakpo)
saints - 2 sacks for 13 yards
Without Orakpo and Carriker in the lineup:
Giants - 1 sack for 8 yards
Vikings - 1 sack for 4 yards
Falcons - 3 sack for 15 yards
Bucs - 1 sack for 6 yards
bengals - 5 sack for 42 yards
Sorry. The two combined for 1 sack over the first 2 games. I just don't see where there's been a drop off at either position once the player was out. That may or may not be entirely because teams are focusing on exploiting the secondary and just don't bother game planning against the rest of the defense.
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Well, if only last year meant anything about this year, then that'd matter
This year, with Orakpo and Carriker in the lineup:
rams - 2 sacks for 9 yards (1 was orakpo)
saints - 2 sacks for 13 yards
Without Orakpo and Carriker in the lineup:
Giants - 1 sack for 8 yards
Vikings - 1 sack for 4 yards
Falcons - 3 sack for 15 yards
Bucs - 1 sack for 6 yards
bengals - 5 sack for 42 yards
Sorry. I just don't see where there's been a drop off at either position once the player was out. The two combined for 1 sack over the first 2 games. That may or may not be entirely because teams are focusing on exploiting the secondary and just don't bother game planning against the rest of the defense.
Yeah, you're right, there isnt much of a drop, but what's missing? Orakpo and Kerrigan are the bookends, we've got legit talent in the middle with Fletcher and Riley, I guess the problem is the line itself. Jenkins hasn't lit the world on fire like he appeared to in the preseason last year, but i cant imagine they are the only problem.
tshile
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Well, I think Orakpo is a bit overrated (not in terms of potential but in terms of what he's actually doing) but that's probably an argument for another thread. For now lets assume Orakpo is the answer at one of the OLB spots.
I think the problem is primarily with the secondary. When we pressure people they throw quick passes before we can get there. That tells me our secondary cannot cover anyone for 3 seconds - which isn't much to ask for.
I think we could do better with our front 3, but if we can't go one on one with the wide outs for 3 seconds then no one is going to get to the quarterback.
If it was an issue of guys breaking free 5, 6, 7 seconds later then I'd be fine with that - fault would clearly be on the rushers not getting the QB. But we have the opposite problem. We can't cover guys for 3 seconds to allow pressure to even get started.
Next game count from snap to throw and watch how open the wide outs are... if you can get to the start of three-one-thousand and still have the wide outs covered thats about all you can ask for in one-on-one situations... i don't think you can get to the end of one-one-thousand before they're open though, and thats a HUGE problem.
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