Where are you on the Wentz trade? (Poll)

[Knightingale]

I only mentioned Darnold to point out the 'cost' of a QB on the trade market, and I think we would ALL agree that Wentz is more valuable in a trade scenario than Darnold was when he was traded.

Could this become important next year?

Let's say that we draft someone also. And let's say that that person sits behind Wentz (and Heineke) and spends a year learning. And let's say that Wentz has a pretty good year AND that Ron starts to feel happy that our new Rookie has what it takes to start in 2023.

Does Wentz then become a valuable trade bait next year to recoup some draft picks in the 2023 draft? Especially as there's an opt-out clause in his contract? (I'm not sure how that works tbh. I know we can opt-out next year if he craps the bed, but if he doesn't and we want to move on from him anyway, can we trade him with that contract? And could the team we trade him to do anything with that contract? OR would we just have to release him?)

Of course, all this comes down to IF we draft.

As much as I'm on board with Wentz at the moment, I don't see him as the future of the franchise. Even if he is (just about) the right side of 30, he's had injuries to his ACL and his back that means the miles on him are likely significant. While the likes of Brady, Rodgers, Brees, etc proved that you can play at a high level into your late 30s, neither of them had a serious injury like that.

 

[Primus Porcus]

Could this become important next year?

Let's say that we draft someone also. And let's say that that person sits behind Wentz (and Heineke) and spends a year learning. And let's say that Wentz has a pretty good year AND that Ron starts to feel happy that our new Rookie has what it takes to start in 2023.

Does Wentz then become a valuable trade bait next year to recoup some draft picks in the 2023 draft? Especially as there's an opt-out clause in his contract? (I'm not sure how that works tbh. I know we can opt-out next year if he craps the bed, but if he doesn't and we want to move on from him anyway, can we trade him with that contract? And could the team we trade him to do anything with that contract? OR would we just have to release him?)

Of course, all this comes down to IF we draft.

As much as I'm on board with Wentz at the moment, I don't see him as the future of the franchise. Even if he is (just about) the right side of 30, he's had injuries to his ACL and his back that means the miles on him are likely significant. While the likes of Brady, Rodgers, Brees, etc proved that you can play at a high level into your late 30s, neither of them had a serious injury like that.

I dont think anything is off the table.

Wentz's contract is VERY team friendly at this point. $26Mil in 23 and $27Mil in 24 is a BARGAIN for a staring QB. The fact that both of those numbers are 0% guaranteed is that much more valuable. Wentz contract is 100% in complete control of the team after 2022. If he sucks, you cut him and move on with no extra commitment. If he balls out, you keep him at a reasonable rate. If you draft a QB and they're not ready, Wentz is still there. If you draft a QB and he is ready, you can trade Wentz for any amount you would like, but if nobody wants him, you cut him with no financial responsibility.\

further, if you draft a QB and they're a bust.. and Wentz is a bust, you're picking high in 23 draft and looking at a better crop of QBs.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

As much as I'm on board with Wentz at the moment, I don't see him as the future of the franchise. Even if he is (just about) the right side of 30, he's had injuries to his ACL and his back that means the miles on him are likely significant. While the likes of Brady, Rodgers, Brees, etc proved that you can play at a high level into your late 30s, neither of them had a serious injury like that.

Just to correct you. All 3 of those guys had serious injuries.

Brady tore his ACL in the first game of the 2008 season and missed the whole year.

Rodgers has broken his clavicle twice missing 7 games the first time in 2013 and 9 games the second time in 2017.

Brees had a torn labrum and rotator cuff when he left San Diego after the 2005 season. That scared some teams away from signing him, which worked out well for New Orleans.

I’m not worried about Wentz’s injury history and these guys prove that you can overcome serious injuries and still perform at a high level.

 

[Henry]

I think we may be on the 'cusp' as you put it of being a contender. The right QB in here gets hot, this team could make a run, especially in an NFC that is very weak. There is a level of eternal optimism here, but there were a lot of games lost last year that can attributed specifically to QB play. We also had a 1st place schedule, where as of now, we have the weakest schedule 'on paper' going into the season. Wentz could take this team to a place it's only been 3 times in the last 30 years with 10 or more wins, and it may be a very small upgrade to the QB that causes that to happen.

I’m not sure DC lost a lot of games because of Heinicke. They had mediocre play from him and very inconsistent play everywhere else. This wasn’t 2020, where the defense was awesome for much of the season and finished top five in the league. The defense was, for most of the season, horrid, and the cause of far more losses than the offense. The team was 2-4 before the defense even showed up. It played solid for a few games and then tanked at the end.

An elite QB could probably take this team and win 10 games with it. Wentz? Meh. The aforementioned Kirk Cousins won 7-9 games a season here. I think that’s what they’re probably looking at now. They will move forward a bit due to the upgrade over Heinicke and backward a bit due to losing the picks (Cosmi was a 2nd and Gibson a 3rd. Don’t tell me those picks dont make a difference). I don’t see any great leaps forward. Plugging and playing middling QBs has been the team’s MO since 2015. I expect similar treading water into the foreseeable future.

 

[Primus Porcus]

I’m not sure DC lost a lot of games because of Heinicke. They had mediocre play from him and very inconsistent play everywhere else. This wasn’t 2020, where the defense was awesome for much of the season and finished top five in the league. The defense was, for most of the season, horrid, and the cause of far more losses than the offense. The team was 2-4 before the defense even showed up. It played solid for a few games and then tanked at the end.

An elite QB could probably take this team and win 10 games with it. Wentz? Meh. The aforementioned Kirk Cousins won 7-9 games a season here. I think that’s what they’re probably looking at now. They will move forward a bit due to the upgrade over Heinicke and backward a bit due to losing the picks (Cosmi was a 2nd and Gibson a 3rd. Don’t tell me those picks dont make a difference). I don’t see any great leaps forward. Plugging and playing middling QBs has been the team’s MO since 2015. I expect similar treading water into the foreseeable future.

Week 1 vs LA Chargers - Loss - 20 - 16 including a stalled drive in the 4th quarter, we never get the ball back. Does a better QB change things? Maybe

Week 6 vs KC Chiefs - Loss - 31 - 13. We had the Chiefs and Pat Mahomes against the ropes but kept settling for FGs. Even had a 13-7 lead goin into the 4th quarter, but you could tangibly see the defense getting worn down because the offense simply could not finish drives..

Week 8 vs Denver Broncos - Loss - 17-10. We had the ball TWICE in the Denver redzone in the final 4 minutes of the game and couldn't get what we needed. Again, better QB play?

Those 3 games alone and we're talking about a 10 - 7 team, and that doesn't include the first game vs Dallas where their offense COULDNT DO ANYTHING but 2 costly turnovers gave them TDs / short fields. Dak had a 9.9 QBR in thatr game... or the game in week 17 vs Philly where Taylor over threw an open TE over the middle which got intercepted as we were going in for a go ahead score.

This was also with, statistically, one of the top 5 most difficult schedules in the league.

Riding with Heinicke, we potentially tatke a step up this coming season simply because of the fact that the strength of schedule is going to go way down. Having Wentz, we coudl seriously find our way to 10 or 11 wins

 

[Boone]

I love Heinicke's moxy and attitude - but there a number of games where he simply wasn't effective. We've been so bad at QB for so long, we mistake attitude for aptitude. Taylors got a great attitude, but far too many times, he left easy touchdowns on the board because he either couldn't see the wide open receiver, or he had no chance to get the ball to him.

7-8 wins is a magic season with Taylor Heinicke under center. Someone with Wentz's arm talent gives you the chance to win any of them. That's not saying he will. But you have the chance.

 

[Henry]

The team has been so bad at QB for four seasons. I know exactly how this team looks with ‘above average’ at QB. It’s not enough. You need to keep building the team with guys like Cosmi, St Juste, Gibson, McLaurin … you know, 2nd and 3rd rounders.

 

[Primus Porcus]

We've never seen a Scott Turner offense with an above average QB at the helm... not even in Carolina.

I agree that I would like to have held on to those picks but this is the cost of doing business in the NFL. There are also ways to get those picks (or at least equivelant picks) back. Scherff is gone, which means in 2023 we will be getting a 3rd round compensatory pick (unless we make some huge move in FA which I don't think happens). It's also very possible we leverage no. 11 overall and trade back... a 2nd or 3rd round pick very well may be a part of that package.


I said in another thread (or a post on this one i'm not sure where lol) that the best option NOW imho is to trade back out of 11 and get 3rd round picks back, or a future 1st so we can recoup what we traded away... l

 

[Boone]

Just to play devil's advocate, I'm not sure 'getting picks back' should be a goal though. To do that, you have to give up value, so you haven't necessarily gained anything. Yes - we gave up picks for Wentz. And for those who hate it, the upside is, we filled a need at starting QB for potentially the next 3 seasons.

 

[Primus Porcus]

I've also started to shift my paradigm when it comes to players. I think we fall into this trap (i've done it plenty) where we simply believe a guy is who is no matter what, or that his draft status has an influence on his ability, and both are wrong. Guys can be developed, and fit matters. I've used the analogy before, if Tom Brady was drafted by the Redskins, I don't think we're hoisting 6 more Lombardis and leaving the rest of the NFL in the dust with 9 SB victories in our history. Belechick had an influence on him, and his draft status literally meant nothing 10 seconds after he got picked.

When you're talking about giving up assets to get draft picks back, yes, i get that point... but to that point, there's nothing to say the player they would take at 20 is less of a fit, or less talented. In fact, they may LIKE the guys around 20 because that's where you're going to find the bigger bodied WRs. Terry McLaurin was small, undersized, and viewed to be a ST contributor. Want to know what his biggest knock was? "He struggled to go up and win contested catches."... yeah.

Drafting the right guy and developing them correctly matter a lot more than where you get them. The wrong guy drafted high aint worth a hill of beans... where the right guy drafted at the end of the first round who fits your system, and is developed accordingly... that's the better result.

 

[Primus Porcus]

This got shared to the BGO Facebook page.... it's a small sample size that shows the same type route combinations and Heinicke attempting them vs Wentz.

 

[SkinsNumberOne]

Since RR arrived, we have seen many QBs get their chances in the Scott Turner offense. None of them have led amazing teams. Probably Alex Smith was the most successful in wins and losses, but that was also largely due to great defensive efforts in concert. It almost always takes a team to win. I am not a believer in Scott Turner's ability to call games. I think some of his play designs are good, but he just doesn't call a solid game. In the 4-game winning streak this year, there was a solid mix of runs and passes in drives and defenses were kept on their toes. It doesn't show up in stats; you had to watch the games to see it. It's just a difference of sticking to the run no matter what, and it was a hallmark in the postseason as well, including by the champs. Sticking to the run when you are down by a TD or two and there's still time.

Turner outspokenly talks about how he needs to get away from the run in those situations. Unnervingly, he seems overconfident and almost arrogant about it. To me, especially after that four game win streak, it's really infuriating and it just ends up convincing me that we don't have an OC who can lead this team to consistent victories.