Where are you on the Wentz trade? (Poll)

[Boone]

What’s your overall sense of this week’s trade for Colts QB Carson Wentz?

 

[SkinsOrlando]

I can live it with it, I don't like the cost for Wentz, not the draft capital but the salary hit. Of course if he balls out I will edit this post and say how genius it was.

 

[Om]

Normally I'd go with No idea - ask me a year from now, because as much as we like to think we know, we really don't ... but I'm on record as having been a pass on Wentz for between-the-ears concerns, so my honest response is I can live with it but there were options I liked better.

 

[Chris]

I have warmed up to it and I hope that his head is on straight and that he is excited for the opportunity. Some thoughts-

1. He has more than enough arm for any throw and now we will finally be able to see if Scott Turner can be effective with more than a game-manager leading the offense.

2. He is a big, athletic player which is unlike anyone the team has had in quite awhile.

3. He is experienced and intelligent enough to make adjustments at the line of scrimmage.

4. He is expensive but good QBs are unless they are on rookie deals or near the end of existing contracts. And the cost of a good one is only going to rise.

5. I believe that a lot of the talk surrounding the situation in Indy is questionable to a point. Like what has occurred in Washington, I think that this move was driven by Irsay.

6. I have far less concerns about Wentz than I do about the other likely targets. (Garoppolo, Winston, Trubisky, Mariotta, etc.)

 

[DixieFlatline]

I would vote 'I can live with it but there were other options I liked better', however, after I mull it over more, I'm not sure there were other good options for a FA QB once Rodgers and Wilson were off the table.

 

[Chris]

I vote- I can live with it as there were no options I liked better. ☑️

 

[Win4us]

Voted Vinny-esque, between the draft picks AND the cap hit it should’ve been one or the other, not both. One day the team will do it correctly and draft…one day.

 

[Skinsfan1311]

I would vote 'I can live with it but there were other options I liked better', however, after I mull it over more, I'm not sure there were other good options for a FA QB once Rodgers and Wilson were off the table.

That kind of sums it up for me.

 

[Neophyte]

I went into the Pod we did on the QB situation a Wentz guy but a lot of that was thinking we would get him for nothing when Indy released him. I figured we would end up paying him $20 million a year but the idea of getting a guy with his experience and physical capabilities made it worth it. Especially if we were not giving up multiple first-round picks and/or star players.

I got talked out of it by guys I trust so I'm struggling with this. I voted I can live with it but there were other options I liked better.

I still like Trubisky better - I think. Although Mitch doesn't have Carson's experience under center or in the NFC East.

I also think I would like this move better if I trusted Scott Turner more. I don't though. And until I see something different from Turner for an extended number of games - I won't.

 

[Henry]

It's worse than what I had imagined was the worst case scenario in my head. It's so bad it didn't even occur to me they would do it.

Two thirds (at best) for a guy two teams have rejected in six years? Total desperation.

This team, after 20 years of this BS, still hasn't learned anything about patience. It's still Dan Snyder's team. No mistaking that now.

 

[Neophyte]

Thanks, Henry.

I think you just saved me from looking like a walking, talking negative thought.

 

[SirClintonPortis]

Don't think it's worth it to snatch Wentz away from the NFC south. No other team was in real need for him in particular or they were Indy's division rival. Him landing on an NFC South team would put him in a similar situation to here, but we keep our draft capital, which we need to keep using to hopefully nab some elite LBs, corners, and special teamers.

This guy can't read defenses and has flaky eye-work. Kurt Warner mentioned it in a 40 minute film study. Logan Paulsen in an interview with John Keim. Both can be found on youtube.

Needs to be a kind of hate it reaction. I mean, it's not as bad as it could have been, but pretty unnecessary.

 

[Boone]

Worse is every draft pick we have for 3 years for Deshaun Watson. I’m not 100% sure ultimately what it would’ve cost for Russell Wilson wouldn’t have been worse?

I agree we paid too much. I suspect there was another team in the mix - but in a trade negotiation you have to be willing to walk away if the cost far outweighs the value. It is more complicated with a QB because you will almost always overpay - just the nature of the beast.

As for ‘he’s no good’ and ‘2 teams gave up on him’ - couple of comments. First of all, Wentz is very talented and he his production has been impressive at times. I think a lot of the stuff about him being a terrible decision-maker is just uninformed. He has the lowest interception rate (over his career) of any starter. Yeah, you can look at a game or even a season and say ‘he got lucky - he should’ve been picked way more’. But you can’t say that about multiple seasons. All QBs have their weaknesses and I’m not arguing he doesn’t - but he has far more strengths.

As for the ‘’2 teams let him go’ thing. I’m certainly not poo-pooing that, you have to view that as a big red flag. It’s hard to know what happened in Philly. The Colts thing I am less concerned about and here’s why. Firstly, he had a very good 2021 season. He didn’t suck, he was above average and that was with a marginal receiving corps. Yes they should’ve been a playoff team and Wentz didn’t take the team on his shoulders to get them there. But their defense couldn’t stop anyone late in the season. It takes a whole team.

I have heard that it was Irsay, not Reich and the GM, who wanted Wentz gone. It supposedly started with his refusal to get vaccinated. I’m not suggesting that some of the stuff you hear ‘He’s arrogant’, ‘He’s not coachable’, ‘he folds in big moments’ has no validity. I am suggesting if not for Irsay having a problem with Wentz he’s still the Colts QB. And my final comment on the Colts is, these are guys who’ve had a different QB every year for 5 straight seasons and who just pissed away a 1st and a 2nd round pick. So pardon me if I challenge the football greatness of their minds and judgment.

Maybe there is nothing but negative with Wentz and we become the 3rd team to find out the hard way he’s no starter. Quite possible. But it’s not the only possibility.

 

[Chris]

On Keim’s last two pods he had Logan Paulson’s breakdowns on Wentz and Trubisky.

He had some positives and some negatives on Wentz. The only good thing he had to say about Trubisky was that he was tall and had a good arm. He very politely trashed his skills as a QB otherwise. But, he would cost less. 😉

 

[SirClintonPortis]

Worse is every draft pick we have for 3 years for Deshaun Watson. I’m not 100% sure ultimately what it would’ve cost for Russell Wilson wouldn’t have been worse?

I agree we paid too much. I suspect there was another team in the mix - but in a trade negotiation you have to be willing to walk away if the cost far outweighs the value. It is more complicated with a QB because you will almost always overpay - just the nature of the beast.

As for ‘he’s no good’ and ‘2 teams gave up on him’ - couple of comments. First of all, Wentz is very talented and he his production has been impressive at times. I think a lot of the stuff about him being a terrible decision-maker is just uninformed. He has the lowest interception rate (over his career) of any starter. Yeah, you can look at a game or even a season and say ‘he got lucky - he should’ve been picked way more’. But you can’t say that about multiple seasons. All QBs have their weaknesses and I’m not arguing he doesn’t - but he has far more strengths.

As for the ‘’2 teams let him go’ thing. I’m certainly not poo-pooing that, you have to view that as a big red flag. It’s hard to know what happened in Philly. The Colts thing I am less concerned about and here’s why. Firstly, he had a very good 2021 season. He didn’t suck, he was above average and that was with a marginal receiving corps. Yes they should’ve been a playoff team and Wentz didn’t take the team on his shoulders to get them there. But their defense couldn’t stop anyone late in the season. It takes a whole team.

I have heard that it was Irsay, not Reich and the GM, who wanted Wentz gone. It supposedly started with his refusal to get vaccinated. I’m not suggesting that some of the stuff you hear ‘He’s arrogant’, ‘He’s not coachable’, ‘he folds in big moments’ has no validity. I am suggesting if not for Irsay having a problem with Wentz he’s still the Colts QB. And my final comment on the Colts is, these are guys who’ve had a different QB every year for 5 straight seasons and who just pissed away a 1st and a 2nd round pick. So pardon me if I challenge the football greatness of their minds and judgment.

Maybe there is nothing but negative with Wentz and we become the 3rd team to find out the hard way he’s no starter. Quite possible. But it’s not the only possibility.

It's pretty obvious there was very little real demand because Indy accepted a deal in which no QB came back to them, not even Kirk Cousins on his last year of his contract.

The only other plausible teams in competition with for Wentz are the teams of the NFC South. Maybe Tampa because he plays exactly the way Arians wants his QBs to play. And that way is perfect for a 7-10 record.

Pittsburgh doesn't trade for starting QBs. They know what to do. It's pretty obvious they've scouted college and they are setting course for next year.

Wentz's problem is the opposite of Heinicke. He thinks he's immortal and can physically prevail against anyone.

Stats don't show everything on the field. Wentz generated interceptions that were dropped by DBs. San Fran had 2-4 in one game dropped. But they got an actual one too. https://fansided.com/2021/10/24/carson-wentz-hilariously-bad-interception-colts-49ers-video/

Irsay saw Peyton Manning for years. Wentz doesn't play that discipline. Irsay probably saw hundreds of checkdowns and Manning identifying the right target. Wentz can't do that. If Irsay had an opinion, it's that Wentz is a parody of Andrew Luck.

Titans game. He first tosses a pick 6 on a dead screen pass. He comes back to tie it. But then throws another interception in OT when Jonathan Taylor was a wide open checkdown with tons of yards to spare.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

I voted that I’m fine with it, but thought there were better options. But that’s just my general feeling on Wentz. I’ve never been too high on him, even when he had his good stretch last year. But honestly, I don’t know if there were any better options available. As for the cost, this is the cost of doing business to get a starting QB. Time will tell if this is worth it. I think the positives outweigh the negatives, but I don’t have high hopes for Wentz other than he’s an upgrade over what they currently have.

 

[Henry]

Trading the farm for a top-tier QB would have been bad and I would have been all pissy about that too (especially Watson) but at least Watson and Wilson are true difference-makers on the field. Wentz is a potentially above-average QB when he's not hurt. I'd expect a team to go for a guy like that in free agency and then draft a QB high to groom for the future. The Washingtons didn't do that.
This is not a hold-down-the-fort move. They traded for Wentz like he's the long-term plan. Carson Wentz is our long-term plan. Let that roll around in your head for a minute.

The Commanders are not drafting a QB now. You can't spend a 1st and a 3rd on QBs in the same year. That would be patently insane. The investment the team has made in Wentz demands he be projected as the starter now and into the future. If he fails, it's a blow-the-whole-thing-up level of failure.

Besides, with the cap space Wentz takes up and with Collins being let go due to this new cap situation, and with the draft pick supply dwindling, the team cannot afford to ignore non-QB positions in the draft. Not if we all want to believe the team is truly 'just a QB away'. No, a 7-10 team cannot lose starters and draft picks and then turn around and suggest with a straight face that an above-average QB is the ticket to instant greatness. They aren't taking a QB.

It's live-or-die with Wentz now. With little cap space and depleted draft capital.

This has Dan Snyder's grubby paws all over it.

 

[Boone]

It's pretty obvious there was very little real demand because Indy accepted a deal in which no QB came back to them, not even Kirk Cousins on his last year of his contract.

The only other plausible teams in competition with for Wentz are the teams of the NFC South. Maybe Tampa because he plays exactly the way Arians wants his QBs to play. And that way is perfect for a 7-10 record.

Pittsburgh doesn't trade for starting QBs. They know what to do. It's pretty obvious they've scouted college and they are setting course for next year.

Wentz's problem is the opposite of Heinicke. He thinks he's immortal and can physically prevail against anyone.

Stats don't show everything on the field. Wentz generated interceptions that were dropped by DBs. San Fran had 2-4 in one game dropped. But they got an actual one too. https://fansided.com/2021/10/24/carson-wentz-hilariously-bad-interception-colts-49ers-video/

Irsay saw Peyton Manning for years. Wentz doesn't play that discipline. Irsay probably saw hundreds of checkdowns and Manning identifying the right target. Wentz can't do that. If Irsay had an opinion, it's that Wentz is a parody of Andrew Luck.

Titans game. He first tosses a pick 6 on a dead screen pass. He comes back to tie it. But then throws another interception in OT when Jonathan Taylor was a wide open checkdown with tons of yards to spare.

I agree with a lot of this - but.. firstly, let’s not cherry pick bonehead plays as if that tells the story. All QBs have them. No stats don’t tell everything, but again, Wentz either generally makes good decisions (hence league lowest INT rate) or he’s the luckiest MFer in NFL history. Now - In what SPOTs he makes bad decisions is a valid discussion and that may be where the Cousins comparisons are more valid.

As far as who may have been pursuing him, we don’t know. But again, it only takes 1 other team to have a bidding war. I’ve already said you have to be willing to walk away. If there wasn’t another bidder involved, we got gouged and abused. I am not yet downtrodden enough to assume we just offered all that up as a panic move. It’s possible, I just think it’s probably more likely it’s because if they wanted him, they had to or another offer would prevail.

 

[Win4us]

Twitter poll

 

[Neophyte]

I don't feel like we got fleeced. The cost in draft picks is reasonable if that is what it took. My own personal expectation that Wentz would get released outright so we could pick him up for nothing in terms of draft picks or players is likely coloring my view of this move. The thing I keep reminding myself is that if he had been released outright, he was then free to negotiate with anyone and we might not have gotten him then anyway. We have all commented about the desirability of playing in Washington right now and that most players would likely want to go elsewhere. It isn't like we are the only franchise looking for a starting QB and he would have been the top of the available guys if he had hit the open market.

I don't feel like this is as bad as the Brunell trade where we gave the Jags a 3rd when I was pretty sure he was done, would be let go, and we would have no competition to sign him. I still believe I was right on that one.

We still have a first and a second both this year and next. That is 4 cheap players and a minimum of 2 of those should be upgrades over guys we have now so should start with the other two getting significant playing time.