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servumtuum

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Carlos "Stone Hands" Rodgers is having a career season with the 49ers...and he's coming back to visit Sunday. So what's up with this guy anyway?

Well, I found a post that kind of discussed this-as well as mentioning other things that have been objects of interest here lately-and I thought it would make some interesting reading for folks here.

We’re Missing Carlos Rogers, But He Sure Isn’t Missing Us
Published: 8 hours ago
by Kelso Carpenter
Kelso Carpenter

During his time as a Redskin, Carlos Rogers had an up and down career to say the least.

He was drafted 9th overall out of Auburn in the 2005 NFL draft ahead of guys like DeMarcus Ware, Shawne Merriman, and Aaron Rogers, but he never really lived up to his potential.

There’s no question he had talent, and his size and physicality were attractive as well. There was one problem though. He couldn’t catch an interception to save his life.

On top of that, he was forced to go through the same coach and defensive coordinator carrousel as every other Redskins player over the last ten to twelve years, so he never really got the consistent coaching and development he needed.

The relationship between Rogers and the organization, as well as the fans, steadily began to sour due to his consistent under-peformance and lack of turnovers forced, and it soon became obvious that he wouldn’t be back this season.

Head Coach Mike Shanahan and General Manager Bruce Allen had no problem letting him walk and went out and got Josh Wilson from the Ravens, meanwhile Rogers signed with the San Francisco 49ers.

And here we are.

Where are we, you ask?

Well Josh Wilson, along with his fellow free agent acquisition O.J. Atogwe, have both been a disappointment in the defensive backfield so far this season.

Rogers, on the other hand, is having a career year in San Francisco with three interceptions through seven games, including a 31 yard touchdown return. He had eight interceptions in six years here in Washington.

So what’s the difference? Why has Rogers, like many other former Redskins, found such immediate success after going to another organization?

Yesterday, Lavar Arrington and Chad Dukes at 106.7 The Fan asked him the same question, and I must say it was one of the more depressing interviews (from a Redskins fan’s perspective) I’ve heard in a long time.

He wasn’t disrespectful. He didn’t have any scathing remarks for anyone in particular. He simply spoke very broadly about the differences between the Redskins and the 49ers.

He talked about how his coaches listen to him. There’s far less pressure and scrutiny on a day-to-day, week-to-week basis. The game has become fun again. If he makes a mistake, he doesn’t get called out in the media. He’s not worried about losing his job at the end of the season because of some incoming free agency splash. He’s not worried about losing his coach and having to start over, year after year.

He’s able to play to his strengths (man coverage) instead of being forced to fit into a narrow scheme.

I know some people are going to say this is a bit of a case of sour grapes. I’ll be the first to admit that I was okay with letting Rogers go, mainly because I figured they’d replace him with a solid corner.

He knew he needed a change and so did we. Unfortunately, it has become quite apparent that his presence in the secondary is sorely missed.

DeAngelo Hall is a play-maker, but he’s inconsistent. Josh Wilson, when he’s healthy, has proven to really only be a third corner at best.

Jim Haslet’s defense is based on pressure. When Brian Orakpo and Ryan Kerrigan don’t get to the quarterback, the weakness at cornerback becomes obvious.

Again, it’s hindsight, I know. We thought Josh Wilson would be better, and no one would have expected Rogers to play as well as he has, but the question still remains.

What is it about this organization that stifles the development of its players? Why does it seem like there’s some kind of dark cloud hanging over this team?

Rogers isn’t the first example of this situation either. We’ve seen it with guys like Antonio Pierce, Ryan Clark, Brandon Lloyd, and (gasp) Chad Reinart who is now the starting left guard in Buffalo and did just fine against the Redskins defense last Sunday.

Even guys like Justin Tryon and Devin Thomas are contributing for the New York Giants.

There are more examples too: Lavar Arrington, Stephan Davis, Andre Carter, Brian Mitchell, Champ Bailey.

I know the NFL is a business and tough decisions are faced year in and year out. I know that all of the examples above can be analyzed and categorized, and it’s not cut and dry.

But I also know that the Redskins have been a mediocre NFL franchise since their last Super Bowl victory in 1991. And it’s only gotten worse since Daniel Snyder bought the team.

They’re doing something wrong. Maybe they’re doing a lot of things wrong.

I’m sure they’re doing some things right too, but for now, the bad is outweighing the good.
Article link:http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/were_missing_carlos_rogers_but_he_sure_isnt_missing_us/7820515
 

Canadian Hog

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I think part of the problem in Washington over the last 20 years or so has been a lack of identity.

What is it that defines or characterizes how this team wants to play football? When you think of some of the more stable and successful franchises, they all have something they can hang their hat on. In Pittsburgh you associate them with always fielding a strong defense, New England - the passing game, etc.

As we have been cycling through coaching staff after coaching staff, we have spun our tires trying to establish who we are. Added onto this, the draft picks this team has made over the years have often targeted areas of need, and may have not necessarily taken into consideration how these players fit into the team's philosophy - largely because the team's philosophy has been clouded and not well-defined.

This might explain partially why the likes of guys like Rogers just don't seem to work here, but can achieve a level of success elsewhere.

Outside of that, all I can think of as an explanation is that this franchise is snake-bitten or completely inept.
 

Fear The Spear

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Same thing that's happened to Brandon Lloyd and countless other Redskins who have failed in DC, but thrived at other teams before and after their playing for the Skins.

It's a law of physics, that players who succeed elsewhere, will fail in DC..
 

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The problem is retreads. Nothing more, nothing less. I speak specifically of coaches. We don't get young, hungry coaches. Zorn doesn't count, because he had no experience, and it showed.

Instead of going after a hungry coordinator or college coach out to make a name for himself, the Washington Redskins continue to chase past glory by going after superstar coaches from 20+ years ago. Guys who have already built a legacy and have nothing to gain by winning here.

For those who haven't noticed, the NFL is in a different place than it was 20 years ago. We have free agency. We have 280 lb linebackers who can sprint like corners. We have 180 lb DBs who can hit like linemen. Everything about the landscape is different.

If the Washington Redskins are to ever find success again, they need to start looking to coaches who were brought up in the current system. Coaches who have no knowledge of how things were in the past. Once we realize that, we can jump on the train to glory and easily find the path to success.

As it stands right now, we are hopping on the backs of old men without a map, stumbling through the dark in hopes of finding the promised land. That's just not how things work anymore.

Additionally, a lot of coaches have forgotten the fundamentals. The most important thing in football is tackling. Something players around the league openly admit they aren't trained to do anymore. How often do you see a guy going for the strip, and when it doesn't work, he gets burned for 30+ or a TD? When if he had just made the effort to wrap the guy up instead, a punt would be coming our way? It's things like this that have consistently killed us.

We need a coaching staff that not only has a firm grasp on the way the league is now, but one who is smart enough to realize that it's the basics that still win football games. There's no need for flash and flare. There's no need in trying to go for that INT or strip, and miss the tackle as a result. We need someone who will drill it into these guys that no single player has ever won a football game by himself. If you have a guy constantly going for the pick or the strip (DeAngelo Hall), let him sit on the bench for a few games until he remembers how to wrap his arms around a guy and bring him down. If you get burned, go for the tackle. There is no need to go for a desperation pick once you've been burned, because then you give up the TD. Chasing glory is the biggest way this team digs itself into holes that are impossible to climb out of.

Leadership builds talent. Talent breeds success. Success leads to glory. Focus on building the skills, and the glory will follow.
 

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I agree Extreme, however, I think that is why Mike brought Kyle along. Kyle is supposed to the hungry young coordinator who will eventually get his shot at greatness. The plan is/was that Mike would come in and turn things around, and then turn things over to Kyle after a few years. I think the turnaround time has taken longer than they expected, however.

I like some of what I see in Kyle. Given the way offenses are going these days, his emphasis on the pass will win us a lot of games, when we have the right personnel. His committment to his scheme is admirable in a lot of ways. I wish he would adjust more sometimes, but I understand his thinking. Once he drafts/acquires more of the players that fit his scheme, theoretically with the scheme in place, they hopefully can come into a support system that works right away. Then you are just adding pieces to a system, rather than adding pieces and retooling a system at the same time.

That's my hope anyway, because otherwise this is exceptionally frustrating. I am not crazy about a lot of his in game calls, because even within the game, you need to make adjustments, something I don't see him doing a lot of. But he is young, and will hopefully learn.
 

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The problem is retreads. Nothing more, nothing less. I speak specifically of coaches. We don't get young, hungry coaches. Zorn doesn't count, because he had no experience, and it showed.

Instead of going after a hungry coordinator or college coach out to make a name for himself, the Washington Redskins continue to chase past glory by going after superstar coaches from 20+ years ago. Guys who have already built a legacy and have nothing to gain by winning here.

As it stands right now, we are hopping on the backs of old men without a map, stumbling through the dark in hopes of finding the promised land. That's just not how things work anymore.
Steve Spurrier? They tried to get Spagnuolo, but he basically told Snyder to go eff himself, he didn't want to coach in Washington. "Old man" Chan Gailey has the Bills sitting at 5-2 and in first place in the AFC East.

My only point is that you can't speak in absolutes. Hungry coordinator Tony Sparano has his team 0-7, with the future looking pretty bleak (except with one game against the Redskins). Young & hungry coordinator Steve Spagnuolo has his team at 1-6, with a loss to those same Redskins.

I'd also be willing to bet "Old man" Parcells could come into most teams and whip them into shape.
 

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Could be it's a contract year for Hands of Stone and he's looking to get paid
 

fansince62

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it would be nice to burn him for a TD this Sunday!!!
 

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I think he's at that point in his career that he's looking to get paid. Can't do that dropping balls left and right
 

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Steve Spurrier? They tried to get Spagnuolo, but he basically told Snyder to go eff himself, he didn't want to coach in Washington. "Old man" Chan Gailey has the Bills sitting at 5-2 and in first place in the AFC East.

My only point is that you can't speak in absolutes. Hungry coordinator Tony Sparano has his team 0-7, with the future looking pretty bleak (except with one game against the Redskins). Young & hungry coordinator Steve Spagnuolo has his team at 1-6, with a loss to those same Redskins.

I'd also be willing to bet "Old man" Parcells could come into most teams and whip them into shape.
Steve Spurrier wasn't young or new. He had already achieved glory in college as a perennial favorite, national champion, several coach of the year awards, multiple conference championships, etc. He had nothing to prove by coming here, and repeatedly told Snyder no until Snyder made the money too much to say no to. bad example if that's what you want to base your stance on.

As far as the 2 new guys you mentioned who are doing so horribly....what about Mike Smith, who was a win away from the Super Bowl last season? Or John Harbaugh who's Ravens are 5-2 and have already been in the AFC Championship Game under him? Or Jim Schwartz, who has taken the Lions from decades of poverty, to being one of the most feared teams in the league, with a 6-2 record? Or Mike McCarty, whos Packers won the Super Bowl last year, and are 7-0 and well on their way to a possible repeat this year? Or Sean Payton, who has already won a Super Bowl and coach of the year awards with the Saints, and is always in the hunt? Or Rex Ryan, who has gone to the AFC Championship every year he has coached? Or Hue Jackson, who had the Oakland Raiders looking like a threat after years of failures until Jason Campbell got hurt? Or Mike Tomlin, who has the Steelers going for it all every season, and has been to two Super Bowls already, winning one, and wins the division nearly every year? Or Jim Harbaugh, who has taken the 49ers from a joke, to a probable division winner? Andy Reid is amongst the new school guys, and his resume speaks for itself, no matter how bad Eagles fans hate him.

As I count it, that's 11 to your 2. Not to mention the 3 or 4 other young coaches like Kubiak, Munchak and Morris who have nothing but potential and are already showing strong signs of hope for the future.

Call me crazy, but I would trade what we've got for anyone on that list all day long. So yes, if you look at the evidence of what the new guys are doing as a whole, I can speak in absolutes. Actually, I'll do you one better and show you a side by side comparison of new school vs. old school among current NFL coaches.

Old School:
Average Age - 59
Average Experience - 13.5 Years
.529 Combined Career Win Percentage
26 Playoff Berths
21 Division Titles
8 Super Bowl Appearances
6 Super Bowl Wins
3 Coach Of The Year Awards
8 Conference Championship Appearances

New School:
Average Age - 43
Average Experience - 4 Years
.550 Combined Career Win Percentage
38 Playoff Berths
23 Division Titles
8 Super Bowl Appearances
3 Super Bowl Wins
5 Coach Of The Year Awards
17 Conference Championship Appearances

Yeah, I think I'd rather take my chances with the youth movement. For the factors that I used to determine old school vs new school, I grouped old school as coaches 56 and older and who have been coaching in the NFL at least 10 years. New school was coaches that were 55 and under with less than 10 years of NFL coaching experience in any capacity. First year coaches, or coaches that have not coached a full season were not included.
 
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burgold

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Could be it's a contract year for Hands of Stone and he's looking to get paid
I think this is part of it. Not only is it a contract year, but absolutely no one wanted him in free agency. He didn't go in the first, second or even third wave of free agency. I think this was a huge splash of water in face. Ice water.

He always talked about himself as if he were the greatest thing ever. Yet his play in Washington was inconsistent. Not only did he have the obvious hands issue, but he was beaten more than his fair share and was caught loafing and giving up on plays.

But possibly more importantly, Carlos was a partier. He didn't seem to take his homework seriously and thus without some of the prep and maybe a few too many game time hangovers couldn't quite function as well as he could on the field.

Now, I'm believing the stories and rumors that have been floating for years about Rogers being a partier, but it makes sence. It even goes further to explain his turnaround in this contract year after he didn't get even close to the offers he was expecting.
 

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Call me crazy, but I would trade what we've got for anyone on that list all day long. So yes, if you look at the evidence of what the new guys are doing as a whole, I can speak in absolutes. Actually, I'll do you one better and show you a side by side comparison of new school vs. old school among current NFL coaches...

Yeah, I think I'd rather take my chances with the youth movement. For the factors that I used to determine old school vs new school, I grouped old school as coaches 56 and older and who have been coaching in the NFL at least 10 years. New school was coaches that were 55 and under with less than 10 years of NFL coaching experience in any capacity. First year coaches, or coaches that have not coached a full season were not included.
I think this is a reasonable conclusion...to a point. I'd suggest you look here for the rest of the story though.

The NFL is a passing/turnovers league. If you have an offense that can pass the ball (i.e. a franchise QB) and a halfway decent defense that gets you a reasonable amount of turnovers your team will be at the very least competitive. Buffalo with the retread Gailey, the Patsies with Bellicheat as well as the utter collapse of the Dolts without Manning are good examples of this.

Moreover you argue on the one hand that younger, "hungrier" coaches are the solution and at the same time you also say that the types of things that an older coach would tend to stress, i.e. fundamentals are what's needed to win. I'd also posit that a guy like Marty Shottenheimer in the latter stages of his career might be "hungrier" for a SB than a new guy like say Tomlin who potentially has many years/chances left to win one...and yet Tomlin is the one with the ring, not Marty.

In short I think you limited your analysis to too few variables. I'm not dismissing your premise but I think you need to look at other factors before coming to that conclusion. Personally I'd prefer to see what Shanny can do with a legit NFL caliber QB and WRs before I dismiss him as not being "hungry" enough or too old. He's a damn good coach who is trying to turn a barge around. They don't turn on a dime, no matter your age. Just ask Jim Schwartz or Tony Sparano. ;-)
 

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Steve Spurrier wasn't young or new. He had already achieved glory in college as a perennial favorite, national champion, several coach of the year awards, multiple conference championships, etc. He had nothing to prove by coming here, and repeatedly told Snyder no until Snyder made the money too much to say no to. bad example if that's what you want to base your stance on.
Yeah, but he fits your criteria of trying to make a name for himself.

Yeah, I think I'd rather take my chances with the youth movement. For the factors that I used to determine old school vs new school, I grouped old school as coaches 56 and older and who have been coaching in the NFL at least 10 years. New school was coaches that were 55 and under with less than 10 years of NFL coaching experience in any capacity. First year coaches, or coaches that have not coached a full season were not included.
There are exactly 3 current NFL coaches that fit your criteria for a "new school" coach:

Jason Garrett
Jim Harbaugh
Raheem Morris

No Mike Tomlin, who has led the Steelers to 2 Superbowls and 1 victory? No Ken Whisenhunt who took the underachieving Cardinals to their franchise's first superbowl? No Hue Jackson who seems to have the the Raiders at least competing every game? No Sean Payton? Jim Schwartz? John Harbaugh? How did you get your numbers? Was it really just using those three coaches?
 

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Back to Carlos Rogers.

What a $3 bill. A total phony.

He didn't want to play here after Williams left in 2007?

Funny, I seem to remember Carlos being pretty humble coming back from the reconstructive knee surgery he had and trying to work his way back into the lineup at CB.

I remember a guy that was already talking about his next contract when he hadn't even come back 100% from his last injury.

What a joke Rogers is. He was the #9 overall pick in the 2005 draft and never lived up to the expectations for him.

He was the clear #2 when Shawn Springs was here and as everyone else has indicated he had hands of stone, which cost this team opportunities to win more than a fair share of games over the years.

Now, after hitting free agency and not getting the kind of interest he thought he would, he signed a one year deal with SF.

And he maintains THAT action was walking away from Washington and the 'mess' here? :laugh:

To me that was the 49ers throwing this guy a life-line.

Carlos Rogers is no conquering hero on the field.

But he does talk a good game.
 

Fear The Spear

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Ex-Redskins seem to love to talk trash and revenge against the Skins, more-so than other players to their ex-teams, even tho they didn't seem to be unfairly treated while here. Anyone know why that is ? Just bitter over being on a losing team for so long ?
 

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Ex-Redskins seem to love to talk trash and revenge against the Skins, more-so than other players to their ex-teams, even tho they didn't seem to be unfairly treated while here. Anyone know why that is ? Just bitter over being on a losing team for so long ?
Well, historically there are some that probably deserve to be bitter. Guys like Clark, Pierce, or other homegrown talent that were very solid or even very good, but that Vinny and co. dismissed because the grass is always greener and they preferred to sign someone else's superstar. How many of our guys were rewarded with mega contracts? Arrington, Samuels? Portis? Maybe. How many mega contracts did we lure others with?

We did have a difficulty recognizing and appreciating the guys on the team. Part of it was Vinny, part of it was the culture, and part of it the coaching carousel with the new head man wanted to recreate the team in his image every two years or so.

For those guys, the guys we didn't appreciate enough I can get the bitterness. Rogers isn't one of those guys. He didn't come through and merit the contract. Again, we know this because no one gave him that contract. No one thought he was worth a big or even a medium sized deal.

Maybe that was the wake-up call he needed.
 

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