Want feedback. RGIII.. am I being emotional, objective, both or totally wrong?

[fansince62]

Chicken or egg buddy.. do you adapt your system to players, or set a system and bring players in accordingly?

ST...draft the best players who fit the scheme. keep the scheme stable.

I will remind TR1...while I like his post...that Gibbs came to the Skins with a whole set of offensive concepts he learned and refined from Coryell. the essential logic and philosophy for the passing attack didn't change. Gibbs did not make whole sale changes to his fundamental approach to the game. moreover...and more importantly....over time.....he did not make whole-sale changes (i.e., the equivalent of a 4-3 to 3-4 switch) with this offense.

 

[Primus Porcus]

In franchise history, we have one example of a guy adapting his system to the personnel...and he ended up in the HOF.

Gibbs is one of the greatest coaches of all time... not ready to put Gruden on the same level as the QB whisperer.

 

[Primus Porcus]

ST...draft the best players who fit the scheme. keep the scheme stable.

Agreed. So is that scheme catered to Griffins strengths? That means we run read option for the next 11 years and hope to GOD Griffin stays healthy. Otherwise our backup and our backup's backup needs to have the same skillset.

 

[fansince62]

Agreed. So is that scheme catered to Griffins strengths? That means we run read option for the next 11 years and hope to GOD Griffin stays healthy. Otherwise our backup and our backup's backup needs to have the same skillset.

excellent question. don't know at this point. while I defend Griffin...I'm more focused on what the options are moving forward if the decision is made he's not the guy. it's not that I think Robert is playing well or doesn't have some serious issues. it's that, in my mind, once we go down a different path we're probably right back where we were for 2 decades now - looking for a capable QB for another decade or so. it's just the one position where it is really, really, really hard to find a top tier talent. year after year...most first round QB draft picks fail.

I'm hoping like H that...bas as he is playing now....RG turns it around. don't know if I can handle the same suckitude for another decade as we struggle with the crap shoot that is trying to find a championship caliber QB.

 

[Primus Porcus]

Me either. We don't have the luxury to sit here and re-define the game. We need to get consistent. Whichever scheme we go with, this adapting needs to stop. It's one thing to be the 49ers or Seahawks who are predicated on power running and defense to implement a read option style offense. They have an established identity and they add pieces of the adapted scheme to the existing one. As that addition evolves it gets more and more effective because the pieces added after that are added to compliment the current players instead of replace them.

We are in a situation where we don't have an identity. PERSONALLY I think we need to develop a scheme that can handle a multitude of skill sets. Pocket presence, short drop, get the ball in the hand of the receiver quick and utilize the speed and elusiveness. Problem being is Robert is struggling with the anticipation part. Something VITAL in the success of a scheme like that. Having that scheme and then using the read option look to keep the defense guessing is absolutely an option, but we still need an effective base scheme in place.

 

[TomE]

Griff has had pressure from both camps, pocket vs athletic passer. Even his own pops made his wishes known.... running QBs don't win championships.

The problem, as so often pointed out, is that pops raised a running QB, his coaches adapted his skillset to take advantage and made Griff a 'star'.

Shanny wanted to revolutionize the position, Pops wanted Brady or Manning, Griff wanted to be Rodgers..... so far Shanny succeeded 'til Griff got broken, no signs of the other styles to date.

Gruden is trying to straighten out the mess but don't think he or Griff have any idea where this is going.

It wouldn't surprise me if Gruden relates better to Colt or Kirk being a 'second string' kindred himself. He might view Griff as being that 'coddled' elite type who seems to get everything handed to him while still acknowledging the fact that Griff does deserve credit for what he's achieved and skillset as a player.

He probably knows that Griff 'wants to and try's to' but neither have yet to break the 'whatever you do is great' gutfeel that Griff's supporting group instilled over his entire career.

Gruden's putting it out there that a regular guys work is what it's going to take to be great. It might be hard for Griff feel that way in earnest and is not too sure about how to do it.

 

[Gulf Coast Redskin]

Okay guys.. I can take it... I'm too tired not too I'm still recovering from the drive home in mid-high 30's temps and rain through the mountains... But I'll be in chat Sunday no matter what. And I'm looking forward to it. Unless you ban me

Honestly, I agree with everything you said. Including his statements in his PC after the game. I found nothing wrong with what he said about EVERYONE needs to look in the mirror & step it up & play better-INCLUDING HIMSELF! He made that clear, said it several times. That's why I'm a bit twisted up about Gruden calling him out after those statements. It seems like he was doing what the leader of the players should do & make a grand statement about the poor performance of the whole team. He didn't say names, he didn't refer to specific plays so we all knew who he was talking about without saying their names. He just made it clear, the whole team needs to play better. He was absolutely 100% correct.

That said, I think to try to force feed Robert several new tactics at once is more than any QB could deal with & to expect him to excel at all of them at once is absurd. You can't make a read-option QB a pocket passer, put him behind an OLine as porous as ours, tell him to read defenses quickly & make quick decisions when he's not used to doing all of those things from the pocket. But like I said in another post, Jay said in his first week that it would be foolish to try to make Robert a pocket passer & then turned around & did just that. To me, he's trying to make Robert fit into his box of ideas & game plans rather than adjusting his style to the talents of RG3 & letting him do what he does best, while selecting plays that work for him. It works for Russell Wilson, why wouldn't it work for Robert? He won a Super Bowl doing that & the last time we played them, Wilson was gashing our defense every other play running up & down the field on us. Of course, with the schemes that Haslett calls, that really doesn't surprise me that much anyway, but still. We're not the only team he has done that to & he continues to be successful with it. But everyone loves to blame the QB for everything that goes wrong.

As I have said, at this point ad nauseum, I'm tired of the revolving door where both coaches & QBs go thru at break neck speeds in & out of Redskins Park & we never have enough time to establish anything because we are always crying for the next guy to come in & fix this. I think these guys need to fix this themselves & their punishment should be that they don't get to leave until they do. Welcome to Hotel California folks. You have checked in, but you can never leave. Your only ticket out is to start winning. So get to it.

 

[Gulf Coast Redskin]

I'm hoping like H that...bas as he is playing now....RG turns it around. don't know if I can handle the same suckitude for another decade as we struggle with the crap shoot that is trying to find a championship caliber QB.

Honestly, we need to get back to shoring up the trenches. Joe Gibbs won 3 Super Bowls with average QBs because of a HoF caliber Offensive Line. That's what needs to happen. Until we have something that even resembles that OLine, as I have said repeatedly, it won't matter what QB or how good that QB is we have, they WILL NOT SUCCEED! Period. While they have had their moments, allowing Robert a little time to get rid of the ball from time to time, they have been inconsistent at best. In fact, the only consistent thing about our OLine has been it's inconsistency. But, they need to stop trying to draft the sexy picks, stop looking for big name players in big name positions & start flying under the radar & drafting OL & DL & picking them up in FA. Guys who can block, guys who can tackle. Period. Robert will be fine if we do that. Until then, no matter who we have under center is going to be hot garbage.

 

[fansince62]

Gruden's putting it out there that a regular guys work is what it's going to take to be great. It might be hard for Griff feel that way in earnest and is not too sure about how to do it.

funny how we never hear how hard the o-line work to be great. eh...this (not you) is getting to be a broken record. the rest of the league has better talent. I'm tired of the same old crap coming out of Ashburn every year that the talent is there...especially on defense.....only to see all the other teams....with better talent and coaching....kick their arses year in and year out.

 

[micks113]

He's tied with "all favorites". Not to take away from his picks, just sayin.

Its all relative Shi, its all relative. We are not playing against all favorites, we are playing against each other. Part of picking the winners is playing the strategy of what others contending are doing, or likely to do. Its just a game. If you win you are better than the rest, whether "over par" or "under par".

 

[micks113]

It would be wise of everyone to take note of what this man is saying, regarding the topic of a QB's effect on a club winning or losing.
Because micks113 just happens to be the #1 overall leader in the Pick 'Em contest.
So clearly, he has a pretty good idea of what factors cause a team to win an NFL game.
So, if micks113 says that Colt McCoy "elevated" his team to victory......Then, Colt McCoy elevated the team to victory.

I was actually referring to the offensive huddle. Have to give Haz some credit for the defense. In the huddle, everyone is looking at the QB and taking his cues. Its not a bunch of guys with a route to run or a guy to block and hope they all individually execute. This is where momentum and confidence comes from and where that group of guys come together. If you've ever been in the huddle when you're getting your ass kicked up and down the field, or having to make that last drive count to win, you would know what I mean.

 

[Shi no Tenshi]

Its all relative Shi, its all relative. We are not playing against all favorites, we are playing against each other. Part of picking the winners is playing the strategy of what others contending are doing, or likely to do. Its just a game. If you win you are better than the rest, whether "over par" or "under par".

The point is that nobody should stake their football knowledge on picks like that. It proves nothing other than you can make informed guesses. Which, in the game, is excellent. It means nothing outside of it.

As for the game though, you do deserve kudos for doing well. But, just like fantasy, there is an element of luck.

 

[TomE]

funny how we never hear how hard the o-line work to be great. eh...this (not you) is getting to be a broken record. the rest of the league has better talent. I'm tired of the same old crap coming out of Ashburn every year that the talent is there...especially on defense.....only to see all the other teams....with better talent and coaching....kick their arses year in and year out.

Yeah, I've heard all of the generalized 'hard work, talent is there' crap too.

Just think that Griff needs to be and acknowledge (in house) that he's a 'regular' guy, knowing that his current level of production is at or below that standard. I believe the talent is there, he just needs to re-learn how to channel it and convince the whole organization there's something beyond potential.