Want feedback. RGIII.. am I being emotional, objective, both or totally wrong?

[Docsandy]

I would have loved to have been in chat yesterday; however I was at the game, and then hit rain all the way home to Wheeling. Got in about 12:30 a.m.... wanted to post then but was exhausted from the drive. However.. here I go.. I'll take all the disagreement, discussion, as long as you don't call me a moron. Most people here know me as being passionate about the Redskins, but hopefully you know me as being optimistally objective (if that's possible). Outside of my dog, and one other trip I take every year, this is the one thing I look forward to every year... football season. Yeah my life is a drag. I don't like losing, but I still look forward to every Sunday.

Now... reading various facebook pages, listening to the postgame stuff, I'm hearing a lot of negativity towards what RG3 said after the game. People are saying he should blame HIMSELF for this loss, not blame everyone. Okay, what I heard is that yes, he said everyone needs to look in the mirror and see what they see INCLUDING HIMSELF.... and for once, I totally agree with that statement, with the possible exception of Morris and Kerrigan... but one player on each side of the ball does not make a team.

I can't say I totally disagree regarding those who didn't like re: what RGIII said, but as far as yesterday is concerned, he actually was pretty honest. There were only 2 players on that field yesterday that showed ANY heart or effort in my opinion... Morris on offense and Kerrigan on defense...and unfortunately one man on each side of the ball doesn't win games.

I am NOT saying that RGIII didn't make mistakes. But on the other hand... look at what has happened to him. First year, they scheme around his abilities from college.. he takes us to the playoffs. The Shanahans (and I totally BLAME them) choose NOT to pull him... not to take the advice of trainers, not to look to the doctors, they listen to a rookie who is caught up in the emotions of the playoffs, and they don't pull from from the Seattle playoff game the first time he went down. If they had, he may not have been looking at total reconstructive surgery on that knee, and we might have just won that game with Cousins to finish.

Come second year.. he gets no practice during the offseason because of rehab, yet he's thrown to the wolves, literally, in the first game of the season with a brace, and expected all of a sudden to be a pocket passer (which he isn't) and aside from Trent WIlliams, we don't have the O-line to protect him... in my opinion, the first half of last season was HIS preseason. But enough about last year, we all knew with that brace he wasn't going to be the first year's "RG3".

This year, he has a fluke injury and people start wondering about his ability to stay healthy. Shoot, I've stepped over my dog and twisted my ankle badly.. it happens. He got better and rehabbed it. Get over the ankle issue. That could have been how he stepped, the turf, or a combination. I don't think it reflects on his "injury" issue.

Yesterday, of all games this year, absolutely was a travesty. I didn't feel the effort, or the heart from anyone but Morris and Kerrigan. Did RG make mistakes. Yes. Absolutely. Both interceptions were tipped, but yeah, he'll get blamed for them when they weren't his fault. But he also made some bad decisions, at times held the ball too long, at times, got rid of it too soon and overthrew his receivers. Problem... especially after Trent Williams goes down... he has absolutely NO PROTECTION in the pocket. I don't think I could count to 2 or 3 before the pocket collapsed in the second half on him. So you have a kid (and yes, in my mind, he's still a "kid") who in one ear is being told, stay in the pocket, see the field, make decisions, and in the other he's being told to be himself. Yeah, I'm still liking what he could possibly do for this team, but he needs the protection up front to show the fans what he can do. When he has that protection, and still fails, then I'll give up on him. As far as what he said, he said everyone on that team has to to look in the mirror, including himself, and he's right. Other than Morris and Kerrigan, no one on that team yesterday was there to win a game. I can usually be pretty objective, you know me, but I have a gut feeling about RG... and it's a pretty strong one... I don't want him to fail and I want him to prove the haters wrong. We know Cousins isn't the answer. McCoy isn't either. The answer is to shore up the O-line... give him some protection, hopefully keep Morris "in the game" heart-wise and then see what happens. It's been a tough 2 years, I agree, but I won't blame it all on RG. A QB may be the leader of the team, but a good leader needs a good supporting cast, and he just doesn't have it outside of Morris right now. That's just my take on it... perhaps I'm being more emotional than I have in years with this team... but I like RG (who, I might add, could have been "coached" as to what to say.... it wouldn't be the first time)... Should he step up and say "I'm the leader, it was on me".. yeah, but that wouldn't, at least for yesterday, been the total truth. That's my 2 cents for what it's worth in today's economy

The reason why I wish I could have been in two places at once is that I would have loved to been able to see replays over and over (more than they show at FedEx... of some of those plays. Was he holding the ball too long, or was the pocket collapsing just too fast and perhaps he saved a couple fumbles by protecting the ball? I did see him keep the ball too long some times, yes. Then I saw him get rid of it too fast a couple times (I think at least one of the overthrows to Garcon was him not waiting for the play to really develop).

I've never played football. But being from a football family (season tickets since the 40's, my oldest brother a football coach in high school and college)... but I can't imagine consistency isn't important. Either tell him to play like the RG3 we say the first year, or groom him into a pocket passer but NOT before he has some daggone protection. But don't expect him to be both... that adds yet one more decision to make on the field... "do I be myself, do I stay in the pocket".. then he has to see the field.. and I'm not sure anyone could make those kind of decisions with the short amount of time he had in the pocket, especially after Trent Williams went down.

Maybe he isn't our future, but I'm not quite ready to give up on him yet. I want to see him in action with a good supporting cast, and I don't mean receives and running backs, I mean PROTECTION up front to allow his main supporting cast to establish the play.

Okay guys.. I can take it... I'm too tired not too I'm still recovering from the drive home in mid-high 30's temps and rain through the mountains... But I'll be in chat Sunday no matter what. And I'm looking forward to it. Unless you ban me

 

[Goaldeje]

No chance we ban you, Sandy!

I missed the game myself, having to rely on the radio broadcast. It sounded horrific. I agree completely Sandy that pinning everything on one player is folly. Our team is not good right now, and we need to retool several areas as quickly as possible. If we can give Griffin an average OLine, and he still holds the ball too long, I will be willing to cut him out. But until then, I don't think we're getting an accurate indication of his abilities.

 

[stevenaa]

I think he's a bust. The OLine never looks worse then when he's in the game. (Not that the Oline is any good anyway, just not as bad as he makes them) He had one glorious season when teams didn't know what to do about him. They've adjusted to the option and he's not the runner he was, and never will be again. That ship has sailed. He is smart and athletic, but does not have that quick decision knack the better QB's have. He holds the ball too long, not because he's trying to extend plays, but because he's not capable of anticipating and reacting with to the spot throws. To top it off, he can't shut up. He has no room for error with his mouth. When you are sucking, you say nothing about anybody else on the team. You man up, admit you didn't get the job done and go do your job. Your teammates respect that, any other thing you say will lose that respect. When Kirk wasn't playing with the yips, he showed how productive this offense can be with a quick acting QB, getting the ball out in a hurry. I've seen enough of RG to convinced he can't change enough to be good. I didn't have a problem with the picks we gave up to get him. I still don't. We needed to try something, but it's time to make a business decision. The quicker you write of a bad business investment, the quicker you recover.

 

[Boone]

As far as him blaming others, anyone saying that did not hear or read his comments - period. The very first thing he said is that he is to blame and that the turnovers were his fault (even though I believe that's untrue). I don't know what the guy has to say - he took total accountability not only for the loss, but also for not playing well enough himself. Yeah, he also said that every single player and coach needs to improve - and I think that's hard to argue with. Those seizing on 'snippets' of his post-game comments (like his comments about Manning and Rodgers not succeeding if those around them don't play well) are trying to twist his words. He clearly was saying that they each are accountable for their own play and all need to improve, starting with himself.

 

[Chris]

The dude need a shock collar. Count to 4 and shock his ass if he still has the ball.

Something is not right about Griffin. He has skills, abilities, commitment, and desire but lacks that certain je ne sais quoi (Jenna said what?) that the good QBs have.

 

[Elephant]

I really don't buy into the words said after a tough loss, I could care less about what he said after a loss, anymore. I do not need to give my opinion about RG3 either...you all know how I feel.

 

[Docsandy]

As far as him blaming others, anyone saying that did not hear or read his comments - period. The very first thing he said is that he is to blame and that the turnovers were his fault (even though I believe that's untrue). I don't know what the guy has to say - he took total accountability not only for the loss, but also for not playing well enough himself. Yeah, he also said that every single player and coach needs to improve - and I think that's hard to argue with. Those seizing on 'snippets' of his post-game comments (like his comments about Manning and Rodgers not succeeding if those around them don't play well) are trying to twist his words. He clearly was saying that they each are accountable for their own play and all need to improve, starting with himself.

I think we're on the same page.... I was trying to untwist his words because what I heard was someone not only being accountable, but as a leader, telling the rest of the team that did crap that they had to be accountable too. I see nothing wrong with that, personally. Anyone who saw the game knows that other than Morris on offense, we played like crap... it wasn't JUST RG3.

Someone said that any realistic fan is not comfortable with RG3 right now nor should they be. Well, I guess I'm unrealistic. I realize that the NFL has changed. It used to be it took 3-4-5 years for a QB to really hit his stride. Now people expect miracles right out of college with the likes of RG, Luck, etc. Well, maybe, just maybe, with RG and coaching changes, it's going to take that 3-4-5 years. So call me unrealistic. I've been around way too long to be truly unrealistic about what could happen. Give him a decent supporting cast, either let him play HIS game, or make him a pocket passer (with protection) and then let's see what happens. If I'm wrong.. I'll admit it.. but I'm willing to give him at least another couple years to see what the team does with the rest of the personnel. I dunno.. maybe I've just been through this roller coast too often (i.e., before the Joe Gibbs I era, then that era, then the post-Joe Gibbs I era... that I feel we're still climbing the hill and it's just taking a while to reach the top... and we're not moving fast enough for the majority of fans. What I saw Sunday, what I FELT Sunday being there was a total lack of heart, except from Morris and Kerrigan... the "feel" of wanting to win just wasn't there. And that's something that when you are in the stadium you really can feel, or at least I can. I believe RG had the heart... but no one around him did. There's a thing called trying to hard... and when you do, you make mistakes. And I honestly think that may be where RG is right now.

Okay I've given way more than my 2 cents on the subject.....

 

[Shi no Tenshi]

I think he's a bust. The OLine never looks worse then when he's in the game. (Not that the Oline is any good anyway, just not as bad as he makes them)

I keep seeing people say this, and I keep thinking I saw different games. It looked really bad with Kirk in. It still gave up pressure to the Cowboys, who have a D that puts fear into no-one. Griffin holds onto the ball too long, yes. But that O-line has looked bad in every game, with every QB we've tried.

There is a reason Kirk got so skittish and threw so many picks and fumbled. It wasn't because the Oline wasn't looking as bad.

 

[micks113]

There you go with the double negative. Confuses me. OK the O line is Junior varsity. Meanwhile Grif has become the Chuck Knobloch of football. He can't throw a short non-contested throw with any accuracy. What the heck has happened? Looks to me like he has lost a ton of confidence. Did you see the look on his face when he threw it in the dirt to Jackson on an un-contested throw? Unbelievable stare down. Jackson or any receiver can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. As a qB, accuracy is something that can be improved with practice. He must not have done any damn throwing while rehabbing or during practice for the two weeks up to Tampa Bay. Grif needs to shut up and just play ball now. Pull him if he can't improve those throws, he's killing us.

 

[Shi no Tenshi]

There you go with the double negative. Confuses me. OK the O line is Junior varsity. Meanwhile Grif has become the Chuck Knobloch of football. He can't throw a short non-contested throw with any accuracy. What the heck has happened? Looks to me like he has lost a ton of confidence. Did you see the look on his face when he threw it in the dirt to Jackson on an un-contested throw? Unbelievable stare down. Jackson or any receiver can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. As a qB, accuracy is something that can be improved with practice. He must not have done any damn throwing while rehabbing or during practice for the two weeks up to Tampa Bay. Grif needs to shut up and just play ball now. Pull him if he can't improve those throws, he's killing us.

That's what happens when feet aren't set right. Needs to be fixed, for certain. But he also needs to be able to trust his line to set his feet. You can argue the why of how he doesn't trust, but that leads to throws that sail or eat dirt.

And just remove both negatives if you see a double

 

[fansince62]

I think he's a bust. The OLine never looks worse then when he's in the game. (Not that the Oline is any good anyway, just not as bad as he makes them) He had one glorious season when teams didn't know what to do about him. They've adjusted to the option and he's not the runner he was, and never will be again. That ship has sailed. He is smart and athletic, but does not have that quick decision knack the better QB's have. He holds the ball too long, not because he's trying to extend plays, but because he's not capable of anticipating and reacting with to the spot throws. To top it off, he can't shut up. He has no room for error with his mouth. When you are sucking, you say nothing about anybody else on the team. You man up, admit you didn't get the job done and go do your job. Your teammates respect that, any other thing you say will lose that respect. When Kirk wasn't playing with the yips, he showed how productive this offense can be with a quick acting QB, getting the ball out in a hurry. I've seen enough of RG to convinced he can't change enough to be good. I didn't have a problem with the picks we gave up to get him. I still don't. We needed to try something, but it's time to make a business decision. The quicker you write of a bad business investment, the quicker you recover.

but the o-line may look bad precisely because they can't keep up with a superior talent/athlete.

 

[riggins44]

Griffin isn't completely to blame. The OL is poor at best. If you know the pressure is coming you should get rid of ball quicker.

You can't blame yesterday on the WR's. If you don't get the ball to them it is hard to grade them. Watching the game you could see their frustration.

 

[stevenaa]

The Oline is definitely poor and not helping him. But I'm tired of looking at this team, and pieces of this team and seeing them for anything other than what they appear to be. I've lived two decades on hope and potential. I'm done with that. He can't ever be what he was in 2012 for a myriad of reasons and I see absolutely nothing from him that he can develop into anything more. He's a 3rd year QB too far behind and doesn't seem to have the instincts. It is what it is, and the fact we paid a high price isn't going to change that. I so want to be wrong. My opinion doesn't matter in the least to his success or failure. If he proves me wrong, I'll be ecstatic. But right now I'm just not believing. When you're John Elway, Peyton Manning or Tom Brady, you can also call out the rest of the team on a day when you played poorly. When your RG3 and continue to struggle, you need to only be talking about yourself. You can't be a leader until you do something from which you can lead. The coattails of 2012 are flapping in the breeze. Shut up and put up. Throw the dam ball and stop holding onto it. Pick a spot and believe your WR will get to it when the ball get's there. These are fundamental things he cannot do and I refuse to turn a blind eye making excuse after excuse that it's all because of some other missing piece or someone else's poor performance. Great players are great despite those around them and the lift others up. Look at Peyton's career in Indy. He had some pretty sucky teams he won with. So dam frustrating.

 

[Om]

The physical skills are certainly NFL-QB level. And from most everything we had heard up until very recently, he takes his craft seriously and has the work ethic necessary to become an NFL-level QB. For those reasons I've felt all along that he would eventually mature into an NFL-level QB. Maybe even a top tier one.

After Sunday, though, I'm really starting to wonder.

For the first time in his career, he looked utterly lost out there to me. It was like he didn't know the plays, couldn't read the defense, couldn't pull the trigger or, when he did pull it, hit the target. Even the mechanics--never really a strong suit, but then again never quite the embarrassment they were Sunday--went south on him.

Then, when Gruden talked about him taking wrong drops, reading the wrong side of the field, not seeing open guys, etc., it confirmed it for me. Robert was not an NFL-level QB on Sunday. Yeah I know he got rushed a lot. But he also had plenty of opportunities when the pass rush was not the problem--his inability to read/find/hit a guy, within the parameters of the offense, was.

If this kid he has the smarts and work ethic I've thought he had, he'll start to dig himself out of it, and we'll see signs of his progress for the rest of the season. No, we won't win games, because other parts of the team are at least as big a disaster as he was on Sunday, but we should be at least able to see indicators that he's finding a clue about what he is supposed to do when the ball is snapped.

We've seen a very strange and depressing regression. We'll find out what the kids' head and heart are truly made of between now and January.

 

[Goaldeje]

^^Yeah. That about sums it up for me. I hesitate to put too much stock in one game, but if the pattern continues, we have a problem.

 

[fansince62]

The physical skills are certainly NFL-QB level. And from most everything we had heard up until very recently, he takes his craft seriously and has the work ethic necessary to become an NFL-level QB. For those reasons I've felt all along that he would eventually mature into an NFL-level QB. Maybe even a top tier one.

After Sunday, though, I'm really starting to wonder.

For the first time in his career, he looked utterly lost out there to me. It was like he didn't know the plays, couldn't read the defense, couldn't pull the trigger or, when he did pull it, hit the target. Even the mechanics--never really a strong suit, but then again never quite the embarrassment they were Sunday--went south on him.

Then, when Gruden talked about him taking wrong drops, reading the wrong side of the field, not seeing open guys, etc., it confirmed it for me. Robert was not an NFL-level QB on Sunday. Yeah I know he got rushed a lot. But he also had plenty of opportunities when the pass rush was not the problem--his inability to read/find/hit a guy, within the parameters of the offense, was.

If this kid he has the smarts and work ethic I've thought he had, he'll start to dig himself out of it, and we'll see signs of his progress for the rest of the season. No, we won't win games, because other parts of the team are at least as big a disaster as he was on Sunday, but we should be at least able to see indicators that he's finding a clue about what he is supposed to do when the ball is snapped.

We've seen a very strange and depressing regression. We'll find out what the kids' head and heart are truly made of between now and January.

on second read - good post!

 

[SilentThreat]

If this kid he has the smarts and work ethic I've thought he had, he'll start to dig himself out of it, and we'll see signs of his progress for the rest of the season. No, we won't win games, because other parts of the team are at least as big a disaster as he was on Sunday, but we should be at least able to see indicators that he's finding a clue about what he is supposed to do when the ball is snapped.

We've seen a very strange and depressing regression. We'll find out what the kids' head and heart are truly made of between now and January.

I'm to this point as well. He's got 6 games before Gruden and co. need to have a serious conversation about the future at QB. Not necessarily because of his struggles, but because this offseason we need to decide if we are going to pick up his 5th year.

 

[fansince62]

I'm to this point as well. He's got 6 games before Gruden and co. need to have a serious conversation about the future at QB. Not necessarily because of his struggles, but because this offseason we need to decide if we are going to pick up his 5th year.

you know...in some respects they're in a "*amned if they do, *amned if the don't" situation. Gruden enters his second season. where are they going to find a starting caliber QB to get to at least the playoffs (i.e., while all the other playters age another year - including contracts). IMO...if they shed RGIII (and maybe the guy really has regressed beyond the point of saving)...this team is in complete rebuild mode. can Gruden survive that? will the fanbase tolerate it? a placeholder QB simply pushes off the inevitable.

how sad we're back to where we were even before Shanahan arrived: we need a QB. this team just can't get it right. permanently snake bit.

 

[SilentThreat]

you know...in some respects they're in a "*amned if they do, *amned if the don't" situation. Gruden enters his second season. where are they going to find a starting caliber QB to get to at least the playoffs (i.e., while all the other playters age another year - including contracts). IMO...if they shed RGIII (and maybe the guy really has regressed beyond the point of saving)...this team is in complete rebuild mode. can Gruden survive that? will the fanbase tolerate it? a placeholder QB simply pushes off the inevitable.

how sad we're back to where we were even before Shanahan arrived: we need a QB. this team just can't get it right. permanently snake bit.

You're right. The only way we AREN'T in some sort of *amned state is if Griffin can turn this nonsense around be what we wanted him to be. I wish I would be a fly on the wall in Grudens office to see what is on his mind... I don't think Gruden should abandon his playbook, scheme, or philosophy to try to win a marginal number of games by 'piecing' things together (not saying you're suggesting it, just speaking big picture here). I hope for the sake of our lives people (myself included) can maintain the patience we all need to fix this organization. Whether that be patience in Griffin, Gruden, or whatever number of pieces we need to put this puzzle back together.

 

[Ax]

Picking up the 5th year option is a no brainer.