Training Camp Images 08/04/14

[fansince62]

well...ahemmmm...whatever the root causes...we do know our QB was running for is life most of last season. part of it was of his own making....but anyone could watch the games and do a rough time count and see that the o-line was a second or so short of what was needed for longer patterns - routinely.

it takes time to develop a line. let us hope Gruden's discovery/decision process doesn't take too long to settle on the starters. on the bright side....it does look like o-line depth will be markedly better than it has been for many years.

 

[McD5]

My apologies if it seems like I'm getting worked up, but the idea that we have a terrible o-line in pass protection just isn't close to being correct.

Last season, 21 out of the 32 teams gave up 40 sacks or more. We gave up 45.

That list includes Tom Brady and the Patriots and the SB champion Seahawks. Their O-lines aren't awful. Neither is ours.

2013 NFL Standings, Team & Offensive Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com

 

[McD5]

well...ahemmmm...whatever the root causes...we do know our QB was running for is life most of last season. part of it was of his own making....but anyone could watch the games and do a rough time count and see that the o-line was a second or so short of what was needed for longer patterns - routinely.

Better receivers, and better decision making by the QB should also help. I believe those were the top two points Gruden made yesterday. Our QB was holding onto the ball too long, and WRs were getting jammed at the line.

And one final note that everyone can take heart in. Out of all the teams in the league last season, which team do you think gave up the third fewest sacks in the league?

Jay Gruden's Bengals offensive line

 

[Win4us]

You sit TyPo and replace him with a mannequin our o-line jumps 10 slots immediately. I give mucho credit to Gruden finally drafting nasty's tho. It'll pay off eventually.

Has anyone noticed Spencer Long at all ? Just curious ihow he's looked in camp.

 

[burgold]

My apologies if it seems like I'm getting worked up, but the idea that we have a terrible o-line in pass protection just isn't close to being correct.

Last season, 21 out of the 32 teams gave up 40 sacks or more. We gave up 45.

That list includes Tom Brady and the Patriots and the SB champion Seahawks. Their O-lines aren't awful. Neither is ours.

2013 NFL Standings, Team & Offensive Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Went to yesterday's practice and it is so it is so clear the problems we had on the right side. On nearly half his rushes 92 for the Pats got around our right tackle with ease. Most of the time not even being touched. It was frightening. We're going to have to roll out, cheat with a tight end/running back a lot if that was any indication because the protection wasn't bad it was almost non existent.

That said, overall, the Redskins O did pretty well. I didn't see the huge disparity in efficiency that others had been mentioning. The Redskins went up and down the field as did the Patriots. The QBs weren't really being stopped. RGIII probably held the ball a bit too long and our receivers didn't get as much separation, but we did pretty well.

I was much less happy with our puntes. Our kicking game was shorter, lower and less consistant. I think we will probably be better, but we certainly don't have a star there.

 

[Elephant]

My apologies if it seems like I'm getting worked up, but the idea that we have a terrible o-line in pass protection just isn't close to being correct.

Last season, 21 out of the 32 teams gave up 40 sacks or more. We gave up 45.

That list includes Tom Brady and the Patriots and the SB champion Seahawks. Their O-lines aren't awful. Neither is ours.

2013 NFL Standings, Team & Offensive Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Yes it is and no amount of distorted numbers, statistics can change what everyone in the DC area knows from first hand knowledge...witnessing it in person...the offensive line for the Redskins is piss poor in pass protection with only Trent Williams as the single shining light over the course of the past couple years. There is no changing that. There is an enormous body of evidence to support it.

Boone, I never said it was the worst in the NFL, but it wasn't far off either. Just because McD5 says it didn't suck, doesn't mean it didn't suck. He is trying to make an argument telling us all the sky is green. Just because he says so, doesn't mean it's true. He really is the only one saying it was not bad...that's the old, "You look like a duck argument." He is the only one saying it. And then wants to get chippy when I am stating what everyone says.

 

[Elephant]

You sit TyPo and replace him with a mannequin our o-line jumps 10 slots immediately. I give mucho credit to Gruden finally drafting nasty's tho. It'll pay off eventually.

Has anyone noticed Spencer Long at all ? Just curious ihow he's looked in camp.

He is strong, but raw. I could definitely see him taking over for Chris Chester...this is him losing the initial burst, but holding his ground with sheer strength.

 

[Henry]

I thought out OL was pretty bad last year. Not historically awful, but bad. And coupled with a shaky QB it made for a not-great offense.

It's really tough to look at stats and make a judgement when it comes to offensive lines, but I do like Football Outsiders.

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2013 OFFENSIVE LINES

According to them, our pass protection was 19th in the league and run blocking was 23rd. Pretty mediocre with plenty of room for improvement, but not Bad on an Epic Scale. That sounds about right to me.

 

[Win4us]

He is strong, but raw. I could definitely see him taking over for Chris Chester...this is him losing the initial burst, but holding his ground with sheer strength.

Great shots as always. Appreciate the info, I'm digging him as our RG of the future.

 

[Boone]

El - I agree that stats don't always tell the tale, but they aren't irrelevant either. A sack is, after all, a sack. But I acknowledged that I think our pass protection has been terrible overall. The issue I took was saying the OL has been terrible. It hasn't. You cannot rush the ball as wonderfully as we have for the better part of 3 years without considerable skill on the OL. The problem is that Shanahan sacrificed pass protection (specifically 'big uglies') in order to have speedy run blocking. You just can't get away with that approach in today's NFL as Bulldog has identified repeatedly. So I'll continue saying it - our OL hasn't been terrible, our pass protection has been terrible.

And btw - where the hell IS Bulldog?

 

[MikeSr619]

I saw Burgold snuck in the side door but I haven't seen any Bulldog sighting yet.

 

[Fear The Spear]

And btw - where the hell IS Bulldog?

What about tshile ? He's been gone much longer. And he usually hangs around here during the offseason.
Or did I miss some announcement he made ?

 

[Neophyte]

One word for everyone here...."scrimmage".

This doesn't even rise to the level of pre-season game, guys. There was zero scheming done for the offensive line. There was zero tape study of what the Pats like to do in giving situations or what tendencies specific players have. This was pure read and react, play the man. Did some of our guys get handled? Sure. But all the stuff that happens during a season is designed to help that and cover up the talent gap.

Color me less than concerned at this point. If we are still seeing major issues by 4 weeks into the season, then I might think about panicking.

 

[Fear The Spear]

One word for everyone here...."scrimmage".

This doesn't even rise to the level of pre-season game, guys. There was zero scheming done for the offensive line. There was zero tape study of what the Pats like to do in giving situations or what tendencies specific players have. This was pure read and react, play the man. Did some of our guys get handled? Sure. But all the stuff that happens during a season is designed to help that and cover up the talent gap.

Color me less than concerned at this point. If we are still seeing major issues by 4 weeks into the season, then I might think about panicking.

I agree completely.
Except for waiting 4 weeks into the season - because if we start out 0-3, against a schedule that starts with Texans, Jags, and Eagles, I'm going to see a reason to panic.

 

[Elephant]

El - I agree that stats don't always tell the tale, but they aren't irrelevant either. A sack is, after all, a sack. But I acknowledged that I think our pass protection has been terrible overall. The issue I took was saying the OL has been terrible. It hasn't. You cannot rush the ball as wonderfully as we have for the better part of 3 years without considerable skill on the OL. The problem is that Shanahan sacrificed pass protection (specifically 'big uglies') in order to have speedy run blocking. You just can't get away with that approach in today's NFL as Bulldog has identified repeatedly. So I'll continue saying it - our OL hasn't been terrible, our pass protection has been terrible.

And btw - where the hell IS Bulldog?

I believe I have maintained the stance that our pass pro is terrible, even acknowledging Tyler Polumbus is pretty solid in the run.

And there are so many variables involved in the sack total stat.

The suggestion was that it was a fallacy to suggest our pass protection was piss poor...the question raised was, "Where did that idea originate?"

It originated right before our very eyes.

 

[Boone]

I won't beat a dead horse. I take no issue with your last post - but you've implied a lot more than pass pro being terrible, and barely acknowledge the OL's role in having a GREAT running game. It's not insignificant but I can't make you acknowledge it

 

[Burgundy Burner]

Just tossing this out there like any old fart would do...

What if Moses ends up at one of the guard positions and excels there for the next twelve or so years?

Think about it.

 

[Boone]

It's amazing that you are making these kinds of pronouncements tr1 - about a ROOKIE who hasn't even played a pre-season game. Amazing.

 

[Burgundy Burner]

I had expectations of Mike Oliphant being the return guy for a decade or so. Then we traded him before the season ever began! How did that work out?

Let's see where we are in two years, not two weeks.

 

[Boone]

It's because I can't find one positive thing printed about him during the rookie sessions, the OTA's and training camp except that he's got 'great size'.

I'm serious. I challenge you to find something about him picking stuff up and doing a great job. It's been a lot of excuses so far. Compare that to what has been written about our #2 pick. And, Spencer Long will play more than Moses this year.

Yeah, I have expectations for a 3rd round o-line draft pick.

He was a 3rd round pick, not a top 10 pick. He's a ROOKIE. A rookie who has yet to play in even a pre-season game. He had a very solid career at UVa. He's HUGE - 6'6' and fluctuates between 325 and 350 lbs. He's strong. And he's got good hands. Those are all good things. He played full seasons at both the RT and LT positions at UVa. That may have slowed his development some - you know - because they are different positions. The guy he's most been compared to coming out of college is Ryan Clady. He needs work. He plays too tall and although he's pretty athletic for a guy of that size, still has a lot to learn.

To take the fact that Gruden has yet to devote an entire Press Conference to provide glowing praise as proof that he is a busted pick - seriously brother - it's a stretch. He's a 3rd round pick with great physical attributes who can be developed. I believe once the Redskins determine which side they are going to develop him for, he will start to show better progress. Oh - and playing in actual games - that might help him develop too.

Obviously you have a right to your opinion, but your assessment when we haven't even seen him in significant live action is pretty harsh. And who is heaping praise on Polumbus - other than maybe McD5, who heaps praise on everyone