The Sky is not Falling Thread

One of the few positives from the season is this looks like the best offensive line we have had since Gibbs 2.0. It’s not just the starters but having Wylie, Allegretti and Fant as depth is impressive. Herbig would have been icing on the cake. I think it is imperative we get Paul extended ASAP.

Great offensive line play tends to correlate with year to year success.
 
Coming from a dude who was fairly negative about how I thought the season would start and got some pushback for it -- my points weren't well received by everyone to say the least back then. :cool:

I think there is some fan overreaction to the team in a macro sense. Sheehan actually talked about it on his radio show a few minutes ago.

I believe the team in a macro sense is in good shape with a promosing future. Can they make a run this season? i don't know. But it felt to me there was some potential for a setback season to set up a 2026 surge.

I am a bit surprised about the negative from some fans at Jayden, Quinn, Peters -- seems Peters in particular. So I'll give my take for Peters.

Parcels liked to say the best GM's get 50% of their calls right. Kiper among others say 40% of your draft right is big time. But I know from debates on this topic over the years, some fans expect like an 80-90% hit rate. The thing is forget our team. Look at other team's drafts. Other teams FAs. It's not every player is a hit, not even close.

My favorite example of this is McCaffrey. Picked 100. If I recall the hit rate for a late third rounder is about 25%. Not 95%. But McCaffrey is treated by some fans like he was taken in the first round. The 100th pick in the draft being a decent #4 WR, good blocker, and maybe the best kicker returner in the NFL is a hit not a miss. A hit.

Good and bad for Peters IMO.

2024
Jayden -- home run pick
Newton -- TBD -- not a bust, not hot - too early to tell
Sainristil -- also TBD, might be a better outside corner than inside
Sinnott -- not a bust, but trending poorly. doesn't look like an outright bust like a Ryan Anderson and the slew of misses, they've had in the 2nd round, but just a guy right now. TEs though can take time to develop
McCaffrey -- good pick, not a great pick but good one
Coleman -- TBD -- decent start last season, having trouble adjusting to guard
MaGee -- trending up
The safety from Washington St. -- failed
Jean-Baptiste -- good pick for a 7th rounder

Jayden alone makes it a great draft. But real world standards, not disgruntled fan standards, he would just need for three of the remaining 6 players to emerge for it being a killer draft.

FA -- killer good, some misses but most of it great. And FA is just as 50-50 as the draft, plenty of misses.

Both trades look bad. Trading with the Eagles. And the Lattimore trade. I am good with the Lattimore trade considering context at the time.

2025

Conerly: TBD -- flashes enough, is super young, but is up and down
Amos -- feels like a homerun pick for a late 2nd rounder
Lane -- feels like at a minimum a good pick, trending better than that
Medrano -- TBD
Croskey-Merritt -- looking like home run pick

FA -- they were ridiculed for the Kinlaw signing -- they are looking smart. Von Miller looks like a good signing. Will Harris solid signing. Jacob Martin -- good signing.

Deebo and Tunsil trades were great IMO.

Overall at a minimum, IMO he's done a very good job, batted over 500 with good margin. Now, was he Howie Roseman elite level. That is, Roseman in his last few years, not prior, nope. But overall, i think he's clearly done a good job.

As I've been saying for months, before the season started, I don't think its uncommon for an upstart team to be feeling itself after a fast rush of success, where they feel their crap doesn't stink. There were signs of it. I mentioned it in real time. If I am right, it doesn't make any of them bad dudes, its just human nature. I consider myself fairly humble but when I get on a roll at work and start feeling invincible, something lol bad happens next, I am off my guard, I lose my edge, then I am shaken out of it and refind my edge. I think we are experiencing that.

I got two issues with Peters. And again am not expecting anyone to be perfect, so I'd have issues with any GM for any team.

A. I don't mind the Lattimore but hated them doubling down on Lattimore. Roseman makes mistakes but he cuts his loses. I said so during FA, cut that dude lose, take the hit!

B. I get the idea of some not wanting him to pay 20 million plus for dudes like Josh Sweat. But Sweat is playing really well. So perhaps a bit too conservative in FA.
 
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Coming from a dude who was fairly negative about how I thought the season would start and got some pushback for it -- my points weren't well received by everyone to say the least back then. :cool:

I think there is some fan overreaction to the team in a macro sense. Sheehan actually talked about it on his radio show a few minutes ago.

I believe the team in a macro sense is in good shape with a promosing future. Can they make a run this season? i don't know. But it felt to me there was some potential for a setback season to set up a 2026 surge.
100% agreed across the board with this post. You don't set up long-term winners with some kind of randomness. It takes a lot of steady thinking. The time when you are truly sunk is if you are showing the kind of horrid lack of vision Snyderatto and Snyderallen and Snyder<insert-name-here> always managed. That time is over.

I am always going to give my honest critique (just as you do!), but like you said, it's just opinions and there would be mistakes I would make obviously, even if I may not do the same things Peters does/would do. It doesn't mean anything, a lot is chance, but it's fun (to me) sitting here and thinking of what I would do differently. Overall, Peters is clearly doing a good job as you adroitly pointed out.

Big picture, we are in good shape. I imagine that there is going to be a good amount of gelling this year, we are going to continue to iteratively improve, and we'll be in a good situation every year. Even this year, we could be in line for some good football ahead! We've got a lot of strong pieces and capable coaches, it just has to come together the right way; that *can* happen!
 
100% agreed across the board with this post. You don't set up long-term winners with some kind of randomness. It takes a lot of steady thinking. The time when you are truly sunk is if you are showing the kind of horrid lack of vision Snyderatto and Snyderallen and Snyder<insert-name-here> always managed. That time is over.

I am always going to give my honest critique (just as you do!), but like you said, it's just opinions and there would be mistakes I would make obviously, even if I may not do the same things Peters does/would do. It doesn't mean anything, a lot is chance, but it's fun (to me) sitting here and thinking of what I would do differently. Overall, Peters is clearly doing a good job as you adroitly pointed out.

Big picture, we are in good shape. I imagine that there is going to be a good amount of gelling this year, we are going to continue to iteratively improve, and we'll be in a good situation every year. Even this year, we could be in line for some good football ahead! We've got a lot of strong pieces and capable coaches, it just has to come together the right way; that *can* happen!

To me the good news is this.

A. O line is developing to being a good one

B. The interior D line is good. Armstrong is emerging. Decent depth at that spot, too. But we need that one killer pass rusher.

C. Lattmore if I recall saves them 18 million if let go. Sign a new corner.

D. the offense I think is shaping up. If they bring back Deebo. Lane I think is evolving.

E. New MLB.

I don't think they need to do a zillion things. But again, Peters by reputation is very hungry. He's not a sit on his butt and just let a dissapointing season linger through next year kind of guy.

I think Bram said it best, he's been around a lot of people in sports, but he's never seen anyone as competitive as Peters.
 
Last year reminded me a bit of 1986.-1987. We go 11-4 and make it to the NFC Championship game where the Giants shut us out. The next year we come back, survive the strike intact, and win our second Super Bowl.

Last year, like back then, we make it all the way to the title game and lose bad. This year ... well, it seems a potential Super Bowl always has a certain look to them. We clearly do not.

Not blaming him, but Terry holding out disrupted the momentum. And then came injuries including him.
 
It's all about setting the proper expectations for this team in order to determine what the sky is doing.

The sky is not falling when you realize that this is year 2 of a total rebuild of pretty much an expansion team.

But, if you felt we were one player away from a super bowl run this year, based on what we accomplished last year, then the sky is crushing you.

We suffer with each loss, and we will suffer some more before this year is over, but these are just paper cuts if we remind ourselves, we're still rebuilding.
I'm not bailing on the season, but I wouldn't mind a pick in the early part of the draft to hopefully pick up a few more weapons on both sides of the ball.
 
Last year reminded me a bit of 1986.-1987. We go 11-4 and make it to the NFC Championship game where the Giants shut us out. The next year we come back, survive the strike intact, and win our second Super Bowl.

Last year, like back then, we make it all the way to the title game and lose bad. This year ... well, it seems a potential Super Bowl always has a certain look to them. We clearly do not.

Not blaming him, but Terry holding out disrupted the momentum. And then came injuries including him.
Yep - F McLaurin. I'm not wearing his jersey ever again. I will never look at him the same way again. Money grubbing diva who completely submarined our chances and made it all about himself.
 
It seems like most other teams can do a complete rebuild in a year or two.. in Washington it takes 5y.. or not at all. .. and now that Peters gave away most of our draft pics for a bunch on old has beens... we are on the Ron 10y rebuild plan.
I don't think any team in the league is as bereft of their own drafted talent as this team was last year when Peters got here.

Consider for just a minute - Sam Cosmi and Quan Martin are the only 1st, 2nd, or 3rd round picks left on this team from Rivera's four years in charge. Out of 12 picks, we have 2 left. Neither of them a 1st rounder either.

We see and hear commentators talk about teams needing a "complete rebuild" but this is something more than that.

And it would be a much bigger job than it is if we had not gotten lucky with a guy like Daniels being available at #2 last year. What if it had been a bad year for QBs?
 
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skinsinparadise
Progress takes time and patience.
Some here do not understand that, or lack patience

The only reason that I do (to a reasonable degree?) is because I am entering the winter of my life and have calmed down a lot since I was younger

Yeah I also think oddly there is some value of a setback season -- especially coming to a season with high expectations.

Ron came off like a dude who wasn't driven. When Craig Hoffman asked him what do you do? As Hoffman pointed out, Rivera didn't have much of an answer. Quinn from what I hear is a 100 miles an hour type of dude and isn't stuck in his ways. Ditto Peters. Ditto Jayden.

I am not given up on this season. But if it goes south, i expected a more loaded and hungry team next season with a legit shot at the SB.
 
I don't think any team in the league is as bereft of their own drafted talent as this team was last year when Peters got here.

Consider for just a minute - Sam Cosmi and Quan Martin the only 1st, 2nd, or 3rd round picks left on this team from Rivera's four years in charge. Out of 12 picks, we have 2 left. Neither of them a 1st rounder either.

We see and hear commentators talk about teams needing a "complete rebuild" but this is something more than that.

And it would be a much bigger job than it is if we had not gotten lucky with a guy like Daniels being available at #2 last year. What if it had been a bad year for QBs?

I think this is an overly simple take. To be clear, Ron was terrible at player personnel but we also did intentionally move some of these guys for draft capital and a bunch of these guys are productive elsewhere on likely playoff teams. In fact, no one is fully out of the league (Jamin, Phil and Stromberg are all on practice squads).

In some cases such as BSJ & Forbes, it may also be fair to question the scheme and defensive coaching staff given what those guys are doing elsewhere

2020
Chase Young - Got a multiyear deal and brought us back a 3rd

Antonio Gibson - #2 back and KR in NE. Got a multiyear deal

2021
Jamin Davis - Crash out. On Raiders PS
Sam Cosmi - Hit
Dyami Brown - We let him go. Looking like a mistake as he is certainly a #2/#3 WR
BSJ - Advanced stats call him one of the better corners in the league in LAC

2022
Jahan - Got a 3rd back for him
Phidarian Mathis - Crash out
BRob - Started here a few years and got us a 6th back

2023
Forbes - Starting for the Rams
Quan - Starting here
Ricky Stromberg - Gave us nothing. On a PS
 
I think this is an overly simple take. To be clear, Ron was terrible at player personnel but we also did intentionally move some of these guys for draft capital and a bunch of these guys are productive elsewhere on likely playoff teams. In fact, no one is fully out of the league (Jamin, Phil and Stromberg are all on practice squads).

In some cases such as BSJ & Forbes, it may also be fair to question the scheme and defensive coaching staff given what those guys are doing elsewhere

2020
Chase Young - Got a multiyear deal and brought us back a 3rd

Antonio Gibson - #2 back and KR in NE. Got a multiyear deal

2021
Jamin Davis - Crash out. On Raiders PS
Sam Cosmi - Hit
Dyami Brown - We let him go. Looking like a mistake as he is certainly a #2/#3 WR
BSJ - Advanced stats call him one of the better corners in the league in LAC

2022
Jahan - Got a 3rd back for him
Phidarian Mathis - Crash out
BRob - Started here a few years and got us a 6th back

2023
Forbes - Starting for the Rams
Quan - Starting here
Ricky Stromberg - Gave us nothing. On a PS
You are not wrong with his post. I must ask however, did you feel us a little dirty speaking up for Tugboat and all his downfalls? :biggrin-new:

It does hurts seeing Davis, Sromberg and Mathis's names
 
I never said we didn't get anything in return but the return wasn't worth having picked a real talent in the first place.

Consider that in 2023 the Eagles picked Jalen Carter at #9 and we picked Forbes at #16.

My point is that we are totally missing the young core of drafted talent playing on cheaper rookie contracts that most teams have.
 
The problem with Ron IMO among other things was opportunity cost.

Skipped Herbert -- I used to think it was because of Haskins (RIP) but he explained on Sheehan's show one time, Herbert wasn't a consensus slam dunk QB, and they had reservations about him. I appreciate his honesty but lol he basically admitted they didn't care for him. I used to give him an out for this one but not after that interview/
Jamin instead of Darrisaw
Dotson instead of Hamilton
Forbes instead of Gonzalez

Did he save himself later in the draft. Not really. He was meh after round 1. As for how things are aging. It's OK at best. Chris Paul is aging well. But not Quan. Dyami is on pace for about 500 yards. It's an OK pick, not killer. Brian Robinson has a whopping 144 yards. And these are Ron's better picks.

FA mostly sucked except the first season when Kyle Smith ran things. The Wentz trade was embarassing as t the trade capital and Ron doubling down and pounding the table for him and that he looked at the anayltics himself makes it double embarassing

He inherited a good O line and tore it apart. Letting Moses go who since had a good career. Trading Trent for a ham sandwhich. Losing Scheriff. And not prioritizing their replacements.

It's wild that his best players were drafted by Jay.
 
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You are not wrong with his post. I must ask however, did you feel us a little dirty speaking up for Tugboat and all his downfalls? :biggrin-new:

It does hurts seeing Davis, Sromberg and Mathis's names

Hahaha. I’m starting to get sick of all the “it’s all Ron’s fault” posts and I’m glad that groupthink is ending.

I also did run into Ron last year and chatted with him for a few minutes. He is a nice guy.
 
I never said we didn't get anything in return but the return wasn't worth having picked a real talent in the first place.

Consider that in 2023 the Eagles picked Jalen Carter at #9 and we picked Forbes at #16.

My point is that we are totally missing the young core of drafted talent playing on cheaper rookie contracts that most teams have.

So far (and I’ll caveat it is early), Ron’s Day 1 & 2 picks are not looking that dissimilar for AP’s sans Jayden (it kind of does spook me that AP had JJ over Drake).

AP took this job over others not only because of the #2 pick but the 5 other Day 2 picks he was given to quickly rebuild the young core. None of those 5 guys look like young core pieces a season and a half in
 
The problem with Ron IMO among other things was opportunity cost.

Skipped Herbert -- I used to think it was because of Haskins (RIP) but he explained on Sheehan's show one time, Herbert wasn't a consensus slam dunk QB, and they had reservations about him. I appreciate his honesty but lol he basically admitted they didn't care for him. I used to give him an out for this one but not after that interview/
Jamin instead of Darrisaw
Dotson instead of Hamilton
Forbes instead of Gonzalez

Did he save himself later in the draft. Not really. He was meh after round 1. As for how things are aging. It's OK at best. Chris Paul is aging well. But not Quan. Dyami is on pace for about 500 yards. It's an OK pick, not killer. Brian Robinson has a whopping 144 yards. And these are Ron's better picks.

FA mostly sucked except the first season when Kyle Smith ran things. The Wentz trade was embarassing as t the trade capital and Ron doubling down and pounding the table for him and that he looked at the anayltics himself makes it double embarassing

He inherited a good O line and tore it apart. Letting Moses go who since had a good career. Trading Trent for a ham sandwhich. Losing Scheriff. And not prioritizing their replacements.

It's wild that his best players were drafted by Jay.

I agree with a lot of this. I’ll call out that Quan had a solid rookie year playing for Ron in his final year but has been terrible since with this coaching staff
 

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