The Sky Has Really, Really Fallen Thread

[Darrell Green Fan]

AP inherited a dreadful roster, probably worst in the league. He's drafted well overall, but there were simply too many holes to fill, and he didn't start with 3 picks in every round as a mercy blessing from the league. You have to fill those gaps somehow. Short of breaking the glass, pulling the red lever and asking some of us to suit up, he basically had to go the vet route. Last season was lightning in a bottle and it spoiled us all. We are still rebuilding. That takes time. I can be patient with AP, less patient, though, with coaching issues. Keim has alluded to the Whitt deficit for two years in very subtle, gentle ways. He's been big more blunt these last few weeks.

I don't see how anyone can claim that AP has drafted well. In 2 drafts so far he has drafted only one impact player, and that pick was kind of a no-brainer and even if he went with Maye it probably would have worked out. Let's not forget the reports that he had JJ McCarthy as his #2 QB in that draft.

2nd round picks need to produce by their 2nd year. He had 3 of them in that draft and none so far have made an impact. Newton and Sinnott look to be misses and the jury is still out on Sainristill. His third and fourth round picks are not looking much better and we really needed him to nail these drafts as it's crucial to any rebuild.

I don't want to hear about McCaffery. He is solid on kickoff returns but I always suspected that was more the blocking, If you look at the stats every return guy did well, Layne took one to the house, Deebo averaged 36 yards per return and even Iggy had a big return, and that solidified my line of thinking for me. For whatever reason McCaffery will finish the season with 11 catches in 9 games. That is not being productive.

 

[SkinsInSATX]

It was pretty fucking bad yesterday!! Either the defense has quit on Whitt, or that scheme is very confusing for them!! It was like watching the Joe Barry defense all I over again! Every time we were on defense, I knew in my heart they were going to score again easily,,but my mind, was hoping for a 3 and out!! Just sad!😥

 

[Bulldog]

This was my main complaint this past offseason about the 2024 draft.

We took a TE in Round 2, very high in the draft, for a raw player in Ben Sinnott that has not shown himself to be a future starter at any point, even in flashes. He was rated a #4 pick by others.

We took a DT with the #36 pick in Newton, that dropped because of injuries and turned out to have a structural issue with weight vs. frame and promptly broke a toe in his other foot after he was drafted. Since then he has gotten on the field but again has not shown any consistency and confidence in looking at him that he is a future anchor for the DL.

These picks in Round 2 should not be guys like Sinnott that are 'Swiss Army' types. Drafting that high should be about taking players that are anticipated to be contributors in Year 1 and starters in Year 2. You get versatile players who can move around and fill various roles in Day 3.

Going a bit deeper down in the order, we took Luke McCaffrey in Round 3 but he was transitioning from quarterback and had limited experience dare say it sophistication playing WR.

That kind of project that is learning his NFL position to me is a #5 or #6 pick, not a #3.

Let's face it, if his name was not 'McCaffrey' Washington and Peters likely wouldn't have drafted him.

It seems overall as if after Daniels we took a series of gambles on trades and picks in the draft which have not turned out well to this point for the organization.

IMO we were TOO AGGRESSIVE.

All we had to do was sit there with 5 picks in the top 100, and draft guys that were virtual consensus guys at these spots and we would have been much further ahead.

I would not have made the trade with the Eagles and allow them to move up for value. I would have stayed and drafted Cooper DeJean myself because we desperately needed a young outside corner.

In my book drafting an OUTSIDE corner is more of a priority than drafting a slot corner. It's just a higher value position.

Very similar in some ways to the Left Tackle vs. Right Tackle issue. If you have a chance to draft a LEFT tackle that can play, that guy has greater draft value than a guy that projects to being a starter on the RIGHT or inside at guard.

With these types of reaches for Newton, Sinnott and McCaffrey and the trade with the Eagles we didn't get value in a number of our picks.

 

[Boone]

I don't see how anyone can claim that AP has drafted well. In 2 drafts so far he has drafted only one impact player, and that pick was kind of a no-brainer and even if he went with Maye it probably would have worked out. Let's not forget the reports that he had JJ McCarthy as his #2 QB in that draft.

2nd round picks need to produce by their 2nd year. He had 3 of them in that draft and none so far have made an impact. Newton and Sinnott look to be misses and the jury is still out on Sainristill. His third and fourth round picks are not looking much better and we really needed him to nail these drafts as it's crucial to any rebuild.

I don't want to hear about McCaffery. He is solid on kickoff returns but I always suspected that was more the blocking, If you look at the stats every return guy did well, Layne took one to the house, Deebo averaged 36 yards per return and even Iggy had a big return, and that solidified my line of thinking for me. For whatever reason McCaffery will finish the season with 11 catches in 9 games. That is not being productive.

I think that's 100% fair.

 

[Boone]

This was my main complaint this past offseason about the 2024 draft.

We took a TE in Round 2, very high in the draft, for a raw player in Ben Sinnott that has not shown himself to be a future starter at any point, even in flashes. He was rated a #4 pick by others.

We took a DT with the #36 pick in Newton, that dropped because of injuries and turned out to have a structural issue with weight vs. frame and promptly broke a toe in his other foot after he was drafted. Since then he has gotten on the field but again has not shown any consistency and confidence in looking at him that he is a future anchor for the DL.

These picks in Round 2 should not be guys like Sinnott that are 'Swiss Army' types. Drafting that high should be about taking players that are anticipated to be contributors in Year 1 and starters in Year 2. You get versatile players who can move around and fill various roles in Day 3.

Going a bit deeper down in the order, we took Luke McCaffrey in Round 3 but he was transitioning from quarterback and had limited experience dare say it sophistication playing WR.

That kind of project that is learning his NFL position to me is a #5 or #6 pick, not a #3.

Let's face it, if his name was not 'McCaffrey' Washington and Peters likely wouldn't have drafted him.

It seems overall as if after Daniels we took a series of gambles on trades and picks in the draft which have not turned out well to this point for the organization.

IMO we were TOO AGGRESSIVE.

All we had to do was sit there with 5 picks in the top 100, and draft guys that were virtual consensus guys at these spots and we would have been much further ahead.

I would not have made the trade with the Eagles and allow them to move up for value. I would have stayed and drafted Cooper DeJean myself because we desperately needed a young outside corner.

In my book drafting an OUTSIDE corner is more of a priority than drafting a slot corner. It's just a higher value position.

Very similar in some ways to the Left Tackle vs. Right Tackle issue. If you have a chance to draft a LEFT tackle that can play, that guy has greater draft value than a guy that projects to being a starter on the RIGHT or inside at guard.

With these types of reaches for Newton, Sinnott and McCaffrey and the trade with the Eagles we didn't get value in a number of our picks.

Yeah - especially agree on the Eagles trade down. I think most of us were screaming at that one. Sometimes, you can outsmart yourselves and I think Peters is guilty of that in a couple of instances. I would bet he might even agree on a few of these.

 

[Primus Porcus]

I don't see how anyone can claim that AP has drafted well. In 2 drafts so far he has drafted only one impact player, and that pick was kind of a no-brainer and even if he went with Maye it probably would have worked out. Let's not forget the reports that he had JJ McCarthy as his #2 QB in that draft.

2nd round picks need to produce by their 2nd year. He had 3 of them in that draft and none so far have made an impact. Newton and Sinnott look to be misses and the jury is still out on Sainristill. His third and fourth round picks are not looking much better and we really needed him to nail these drafts as it's crucial to any rebuild.

I don't want to hear about McCaffery. He is solid on kickoff returns but I always suspected that was more the blocking, If you look at the stats every return guy did well, Layne took one to the house, Deebo averaged 36 yards per return and even Iggy had a big return, and that solidified my line of thinking for me. For whatever reason McCaffery will finish the season with 11 catches in 9 games. That is not being productive.

I don't think any conclusions can even be made yet on the drafts because it's so early in their careers. Day 1 impact players are the exception, not the rule. I'm not saying that there aren't starters, of course they are, but there's a reason offenses 'attack' rookies. It's because they're not up to speed yet. It takes time.

I will say that there are questions about how these guys are used at times. Why does Sinnott get so little run when Ertz is clearly not what he used to be? At this point it's not the relationship with Jayden anymore... and maybe the Sinnott TD this past weekend continues to get him more involved? Maybe he just is that bad.....? I don't think he is, but what do I know.

Sainristil played like a badass last year and did it 'out' of position. He played DB in HS, but then was a full time WR for his first 3 years, moving back to DB in 2022 and 2023, so it's only his 4th consecutive season at the position above a HS level. I come back to my frustration with Whitt about not having guys necessarily ready, which means how can we actually get a real evaluation of the capabilities of the players? If the coach is failing at doing his job, the players are doomed and are going to look foolish.


Players that tend to stand out very early in their careers, do so on good teams. If our defense is that suspect, it's hard to actually draw a conclusion about them as a player.

 

[Discobob]

It was pretty fucking bad yesterday!! Either the defense has quit on Whitt, or that scheme is very confusing for them!! It was like watching the Joe Barry defense all I over again! Every time we were on defense, I knew in my heart they were going to score again easily,,but my mind, was hoping for a 3 and out!! Just sad!😥

There's just no way that this defense, on paper, should have set an NFL record for getting their asses kicked. So while there is easily a case that they aren't a well constructed defense, there is absolutely ZERO case for how they are playing.

 

[skinzplay]

I don't see how anyone can claim that AP has drafted well. In 2 drafts so far he has drafted only one impact player, and that pick was kind of a no-brainer and even if he went with Maye it probably would have worked out. Let's not forget the reports that he had JJ McCarthy as his #2 QB in that draft.

2nd round picks need to produce by their 2nd year. He had 3 of them in that draft and none so far have made an impact. Newton and Sinnott look to be misses and the jury is still out on Sainristill. His third and fourth round picks are not looking much better and we really needed him to nail these drafts as it's crucial to any rebuild.

I don't want to hear about McCaffery. He is solid on kickoff returns but I always suspected that was more the blocking, If you look at the stats every return guy did well, Layne took one to the house, Deebo averaged 36 yards per return and even Iggy had a big return, and that solidified my line of thinking for me. For whatever reason McCaffery will finish the season with 11 catches in 9 games. That is not being productive.

I said he's drafted well overall. There are bound to be misses, and development is real. It often takes longer if you're both developing and taking up the slack for others in your unit. AP has only been in charge a year and a half, and he's giving the coordinators and position coaches sufficient talent to yield better results than the results we've seen. Some players aren't seeing enough time on the field doing what got them drafted, largely because coaches aren't using them as (or as often) as they should. The celebrations for #82 yesterday were for a reason.

 

[Bulldog]

I don't think any conclusions can even be made yet on the drafts because it's so early in their careers. Day 1 impact players are the exception, not the rule. I'm not saying that there aren't starters, of course they are, but there's a reason offenses 'attack' rookies. It's because they're not up to speed yet. It takes time.

I will say that there are questions about how these guys are used at times. Why does Sinnott get so little run when Ertz is clearly not what he used to be? At this point it's not the relationship with Jayden anymore... and maybe the Sinnott TD thIis past weekend continues to get him more involved? Maybe he just is that bad.....? I don't think he is, but what do I know.

Sainristil played like a badass last year and did it 'out' of position. He played DB in HS, but then was a full time WR for his first 3 years, moving back to DB in 2022 and 2023, so it's only his 4th consecutive season at the position above a HS level. I come back to my frustration with Whitt about not having guys necessarily ready, which means how can we actually get a real evaluation of the capabilities of the players? If the coach is failing at doing his job, the players are doomed and are going to look foolish.


Players that tend to stand out very early in their careers, do so on good teams. If our defense is that suspect, it's hard to actually draw a conclusion about them as a player.

I don't necessarily agree. While I do agree that a lot of high picks show marked improvement in Year 2 and are not immediate starters or team anchors, they DO show flashes of the athleticism, skill and smarts that made them elite prospects.

I have not seen any of that from Ben Sinnott. In fact he has been unable to get on the field on a team where the starter is 36 years old and years beyond his prime.

He has to do more than catch a 1 yard touchdown pass during a given season to convince me of his value.

In Newton's case what he has shown is the quickness to exploit gaps on passing downs.

Perhaps that indicates he has a real future as an inside rusher as part of a rotation or as a specialist. What he has not shown though is the anchor in the pants to be able to be a guy that can help the defense as a 3 down starter in the NFL.

With the #36 pick you are looking for more than a specialist or a situational player. If you don't end up with a starter here, I think that is a fail.

While we can look to a Conerly or Amos or Sainristil and say despite some inconsistencies they have the requisite skills to play their drafted positions as starters in the NFL, I don't necessarily see that from Newton.

He already has had structural issues with his feet carrying 290 pounds. So, I don't see him necessarily being able to work to get bigger and stronger to be a more consistent presence inside.

Brandon Coleman to me is an interesting case. I think he has the talent to play in the NFL. This is one of those that I think goes on the coaches to find the right fit and work to build his confidence to play at his best.

It will be interesting to see if the offensive coaches are able to develop players like Coleman because I think the Reids and the Harbaughs are able to get these guys on the field and productive.

 

[AngryChuckT]

There's just no way that this defense, on paper, should have set an NFL record for getting their asses kicked. So while there is easily a case that they aren't a well constructed defense, there is absolutely ZERO case for how they are playing.

They looked constantly look confused. I don't care how slow Bobby is or the lack of pass rush, your opponents should not have WRs wide open on EVERY. SINGLE. DOWN.

Skins somehow manage to force a third and long by actually stopping the run for once? Don't worry - opponent will just throw a 15 yard pass to the middle of the field. Someone will be open.

I have never seen anything like it.

 

[Discobob]

I said he's drafted well overall. There are bound to be misses, and development is real. It often takes longer if you're both developing and taking up the slack for others in your unit. AP has only been in charge a year and a half, and he's giving the coordinators and position coaches sufficient talent to yield better results than the results we've seen. Some players aren't seeing enough time on the field doing what got them drafted, largely because coaches aren't using them as (or as often) as they should. The celebrations for #82 yesterday were for a reason.

I don't have the time and energy to do it, but I'd bet $$$ that if you lined up the two AP drafts and compared them to historic hit rates.... they are probably middle of the road. It's silly to blame him this early in his tenure with the steaming pile of **** that Ron left him.

They looked constantly look confused. I don't care how slow Bobby is or the lack of pass rush, your opponents should not have WRs wide open on EVERY. SINGLE. DOWN.

Skins somehow manage to force a third and long by actually stopping the run for once? Don't worry - opponent will just throw a 15 yard pass to the middle of the field. Someone will be open.

I have never seen anything like it.

That's why I don't understand why they didn't go ultra aggressive. If you are CONSTANTLY getting destroyed in coverage, why not repeatedly send the house? At least that's a simple assignment to follow.... destroy Goff

 

[Bulldog]

Well, when you have two washed up veterans in Lattimore and Jones injured again and then Amos, already playing with an injured hip, gets an ankle injury - you end up uncompetitive at cornerback.

Hamilton Jr. doesn't belong in the NFL.

There's really nothing more the team can do other than sign more aging veterans who are on the street or try and pluck guys off the practice squads of other clubs.

Tre Hawkins is a 'shot in the dark' Peters made as a late signing last week in outbidding the 49ers and Chargers.

He's 6'3 and 200 at CB, nice size and speed, but has been an up and down player since being drafted in NY.

Perhaps he will get the chance to play and show something over the last stretch of games.

And that's OK because Washington right now is basically an expansion team.

 

[Ghost of Sarge]

This is how I will remember the 2025 season,. What is this? We have seen it every single week. Anyone else notice all the jumping around and confusion pre-snap? These defensive coaches suck.


View attachment 13449View attachment 13449

That reminds me of how the Posse ran amok in the Atlanta defense on the way to the Super Bowl 30 some years ago.

 

[Bulldog]

Even when healthy this defense runs sets that do not fit the personnel.

 

[The Chump Bailey]

Let's not forget the reports that he had JJ McCarthy as his #2 QB in that draft.

I believe that's where I had him ranked there too but shocker I'm not an NFL GM making millions though I do think he will eventually be a good QB - he's only played 4 games in his career and he did beat the Lions.

Anywho my point is that I fear we made a mistake not taking Maye - who I had ranked 4th IIRC and thought he had some issues processing - which is vague and generic I know and was dead wrong about. I'm not throwing Daniels under the bus by any means and have no issues with him other than wishing he had a better supporting staff and obviously he is talented and Maye also has the luxury of working with 2 excellent coaches in Vrabel and McDaniels - but it does worry me we might have made the wrong choice at an obvious critical position.

 

[Primus Porcus]

Even when healthy this defense runs sets that do not fit the personnel.

And this is where I question even getting a true evaluation.


In your above post about Sinnott.... i wonder why? Is it him or is it some respect level given to Ertz / Bates? Bates isn't exactly catching the ball either.

I don't know why he's not getting on the field. I don't see practice, so in fairness he could be terrible, but i feel like we have seen a flash or two when he's actually getting a chance.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I don't think any conclusions can even be made yet on the drafts because it's so early in their careers. Day 1 impact players are the exception, not the rule. I'm not saying that there aren't starters, of course they are, but there's a reason offenses 'attack' rookies. It's because they're not up to speed yet. It takes time.

I will say that there are questions about how these guys are used at times. Why does Sinnott get so little run when Ertz is clearly not what he used to be? At this point it's not the relationship with Jayden anymore... and maybe the Sinnott TD this past weekend continues to get him more involved? Maybe he just is that bad.....? I don't think he is, but what do I know.

Sainristil played like a badass last year and did it 'out' of position. He played DB in HS, but then was a full time WR for his first 3 years, moving back to DB in 2022 and 2023, so it's only his 4th consecutive season at the position above a HS level. I come back to my frustration with Whitt about not having guys necessarily ready, which means how can we actually get a real evaluation of the capabilities of the players? If the coach is failing at doing his job, the players are doomed and are going to look foolish.


Players that tend to stand out very early in their careers, do so on good teams. If our defense is that suspect, it's hard to actually draw a conclusion about them as a player.

Sainristill showed promise last year, he was nothing close to "badass". As for Newton and the others when have we seen a really good player be this unproductive this late in their 2nd season? They are no longer rookies, it's way past time they show something. At some point they are what they are.

 

[UK Skins]

Agree with a lot written here. A phrase I kept hearing yesterday during the early Redzone was that Chicago/New England "surrounded their second year QBs with talent", and look what is happening to them. And we did what to JD?!

 

[Chris 44]

Dabolls firing may actually press DQ to "analyze" his coaches in a new light.

 

[Primus Porcus]

Sainristill showed promise last year, he was nothing close to "badass". As for Newton and the others when have we seen a really good player be this unproductive this late in their 2nd season? They are no longer rookies, it's way past time they show something. At some point they are what they are.

he had a pretty damn good year last year after being moved outside. You may not call it a 'badass' but I think it was a pretty badass season. 90+ tackles, 2 int, 14 pass defensed, 1x FF, even got a handful of votes for DROY. It was a very impactful season by a rookie CB.