The real question about Beck vs Grossman

[Rymanofthenorth]

So Becks raw numbers are better but Rex gives you more wow moments as well as head scratchers, given where we are right now roster wise (some huge holes still and not really going to be competitive overall but especially on defence,)what do you do?


we are all dancing around the real question, do we build a team and hope one of these guys develops into something more, that the light goes on full time for Rex or that Beck can be the guy Shanny thinks he can, because if we try to win now, we fall in to the same trap we have been in for 2 decades albeit with a younger roster than normal. Do we accept that Rex will beat some teams he isnt supposed to and lose against some teams he shouldnt? do we take the steadier guy and win the ones we should and lose the ones we should?

Rex will give us more wow moments and honestly I think he gives us a punchers chanceunlike Mcnabb who really only gave a punchers chance when he threw 60 times a game, Rex gives us that all the time, while Beck would give us the Game manager type who if surrounded by a great team could be a first round playoffs guy eventually.

either way I am wondering if we are now gonna be out of the luck sweepstakes.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

I also wonder if beck is Mikes guy and Rex is Kyles, that adds another dynamic.

 

[Ax]

because if we try to win now, we fall in to the same trap we have been in for 2 decades albeit with a younger roster than normal

Absurd.

You always try to win.

There are no exceptions.

Ever.

 

[Dik Shuttle]

I'm thinking they both like Beck, but Grossman looks good too. Why can't it be exactly what they say?

If they're equal, I think Beck gets the nod. Even if Grossman plays a little better, I still think it goes to Beck to see what the potential is. I mean, w/ Rex - it's a know commodity.

As long as Rex gets a clean shot, s'all good. A Happy #2 goes a long way. huhuhuhuhuh

 

[Go Deep]

I don't see any huge holes and we will be competitive, been saying this all along. We don't have the greatest depth, but if we can avoid any more injuries like Jenkins, i believe will be fine.

I really don't get the big deal about QB. We have 2 guys that can play and run the offense. In most Qb contraversies you're picking between the less of 2 evils. I don't see our situation like that.

I think it's absurd to tank a season and no one in the NFL would ever consider that. Luck isn't going to be the only great prospect at QB anyway.

I prefer Beck and considering we have a much improved D and team, i don't see starting a guy who's been prone to TO's. You can't take away Rex's gutsy plays though either. If neither guy seperates from the other, let both play till they do.

 

[Miles Monroe]

I don't see us in the Luck sweapstakes unless you want to mortgage the team for the next 2 years worth of drafts to get him. Beck is really an unknown, and in Shannys system, it seems you need a game manager, not a superstar to make it work. It's always win now no matter who the QB is in my book.

I like what Rex has shown so far, but I want to see what Beck can do even more. He didn't have half the quality around him in terms of talent or coaching in his only NFL starts. That's what everybody bases their assesment on, the Miami starts....

I say, you build no matter who you have. Go with Beck to start to see what he's made of for sure. As Boone said in another post, then we know weather we need to get a signal caller for next year.

Again, we always need to play to win, no matter what.

 

[Bulldog]

If you go with beck first you see what he has to offer under live fire and have the option of turning to a vet like Grossman off the bench if he is ineffective or gets injured.

But if you start Grossman and he muddles along as an average player then you still don't know what Beck can do and you have only confirmed what past seasons have told us about Rex.
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[Boone]

I think we'll go with Beck. And sorry Ax - but it's not because he gives us the best chance to win this year. Grossman is the guy if that's what we're looking for imho. You go with Beck because you absolutely have to know if he's our QB of the future. If he's not, we'll get that kid in the next draft. If he can be that guy - imagine what we can surround him with based on where we are right now and a full plate of 2012 draft picks.

 

[Bulldog]

that's what a smart GM would do. no one thinks the Redskins don't yet have some significant holes to fill on the roster and during a rebuilding 2011 season why not find out if you already have a starting qb on the roster?

we know what Rex has done. we don't know what Beck will do.

what's funny is that Beck has the rep as the 'game manager' by some here but he seems to have the mobility and the better accuracy on the down the field throws to make bigger plays.

Grossman seems to be a guy attuned to the crosses and hooks over the middle in the short to intermediate passing game, but he has no escapability and is a guy that can go really hot and then really cold.

 

[Boone]

that's what a smart GM would do. no one thinks the Redskins don't yet have some significant holes to fill on the roster and during a rebuilding 2011 season why not find out if you already have a starting qb on the roster?

we know what Rex has done. we don't know what Beck will do.

what's funny is that Beck has the rep as the 'game manager' by some here but he seems to have the mobility and the better accuracy on the down the field throws to make bigger plays.

Grossman seems to be a guy attuned to the crosses and hooks over the middle in the short to intermediate passing game, but he has no escapability and is a guy that can go really hot and then really cold.

While I agree with most of that - I don't know what you're basing the 'better accuracy on the down the field throws to make bigger plays' part? It's been Grossman who, on numerous plays this pre-season, has threaded the needle downfield for tough completions. Granted, most of those were across the middle, but still - I think he's done it repeatedly.

I'm not saying Beck can't do that - I've seen him make some great throws - he just hasn't had the number of opportunities that RG has to date. I do agree on both the escapability and hot and cold aspects.

 

[Bulldog]

Beck completed a couple of throws down the field to the outside that were right on the money, and based on the scouting report I didn't think he was capable of making those types of plays with his arm.

Fairly or unfairly Beck had been compared to Ty Detmer as a guy that was long on intelligence and work habits but 'short' on pure NFL skills.

 

[Ax]

I think we'll go with Beck. And sorry Ax - but it's not because he gives us the best chance to win this year.

That's fine. You're not the coach. If Shanahan doesn't play the people he thinks can help us win now, barring a disciplinary benching, he should be fired.

Immediately.

 

[Boone]

Shanahan could start Beck both because he thinks he can help us win now AND because he wants to see what we have in a young, untested QB he thinks highly of. They aren't mutually exclusive things. It's not a black and white world, and if they view Beck/Grossman as relative equals in terms of native ability, needing to see what Beck can do may be the deciding factor.

And yeah, I'm not the coach.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

Boone is absolutely correct, we have a known quantity with Grossman, and an unknown with beck, but we will see how this all shakes down, until we have more pieces of the puzzle im ok with losing, its losing with old players who got worse with age that I hated, losing with youth that is improving is still losing but much easier to take.

 

[Ax]

Shanahan could start Beck both because he thinks he can help us win now AND because he wants to see what we have in a young, untested QB he thinks highly of. They aren't mutually exclusive things. It's not a black and white world, and if they view Beck/Grossman as relative equals in terms of native ability, needing to see what Beck can do may be the deciding factor.

Agreed.

And, if he decides to go with Beck, I think it will be because he thinks he can win x amount games with either guy. But Beck, if he's as good as they think he can be, gives us the opportunity to win even more games. Understanding full well the possibility that they could be wrong.

If Grossman were clearly the best option, I think the vets on the team would be a little more than pissed to toss the season away just to see what they have in Beck. The players may not have a next play, much less a next season.

And, you may not be our football coach, but you are our coach.

 

[fansince62]

While I agree with most of that - I don't know what you're basing the 'better accuracy on the down the field throws to make bigger plays' part? It's been Grossman who, on numerous plays this pre-season, has threaded the needle downfield for tough completions. Granted, most of those were across the middle, but still - I think he's done it repeatedly.

I'm not saying Beck can't do that - I've seen him make some great throws - he just hasn't had the number of opportunities that RG has to date. I do agree on both the escapability and hot and cold aspects.

maybe.

go back and relook some of those passes. say the TD pass to Moss...for example. one can argue who messed up in the sense of knowing where the ball should go...but Moss clearly had to reverse which shoulder he turned to in order to catch that pass. I have seen more than a few Grossman passes during preseason that were either behind the receiver just a tad or thrown over the wrong shoulder. he has not been as accurate as some assert.

 

[fansince62]

Agreed.

And, if he decides to go with Beck, I think it will be because he thinks he can win x amount games with either guy. But Beck, if he's as good as they think he can be, gives us the opportunity to win even more games. Understanding full well the possibility that they could be wrong.

If Grossman were clearly the best option, I think the vets on the team would be a little more than pissed to toss the season away just to see what they have in Beck. The players may not have a next play, much less a next season.

And, you may not be our football coach, but you are our coach.

i keep asking myself: why is it no one was interested in RG while he was a FA? He may not be Peyton Manning, but he's certainly more skilled than most 2nd team QBs in the league. to argue it's the system is a back-handed slap - this implies he has no real skillset outside this specific system. that he can't adapt. I odn't think it's money either.

 

[Goaldeje]

i keep asking myself: why is it no one was interested in RG while he was a FA? He may not be Peyton Manning, but he's certainly more skilled than most 2nd team QBs in the league. to argue it's the system is a back-handed slap - this implies he has no real skillset outside this specific system. that he can't adapt. I odn't think it's money either.

Come on Al, that's a fallacious argument. Just because no one (to our knowledge) wanted him doesn't mean he can't be successful. First off, neither of us have any idea who contacted him and who did not. Second, if you like, I can point to a long list of free agents and draft picks who were not highly thought of who ended up being just fine.

I mean, in '99, every team in the NFL passed on Tom Brady multiple times, so therefore, he hasn't had much of a career, right?

 

[Ax]

i keep asking myself: why is it no one was interested in RG while he was a FA? He may not be Peyton Manning, but he's certainly more skilled than most 2nd team QBs in the league. to argue it's the system is a back-handed slap - this implies he has no real skillset outside this specific system. that he can't adapt. I odn't think it's money either.

Personally, I don't concern myself with that kind of stuff. If he wears the uniform, all I can do is hope he plays better than he ever has in his career.

I hoped it for Tony Banks, didn't work out.
I hoped it for McGagg, didn't work out either.

I hoped it for Doug Williams, and while he still pretty much sucked as bad as he did for most of his career, he did hit a stretch of brilliance that ended with a Super Bowl MVP Award.

If Rex is the guy, I'll be hoping for him too.

Ever mindful of my dear ole Daddy's favorite saying...

"Hope in one hand. **** in the other, and see which one fills up first".

 

[fansince62]

Come on Al, that's a fallacious argument. Just because no one (to our knowledge) wanted him doesn't mean he can't be successful. First off, neither of us have any idea who contacted him and who did not. Second, if you like, I can point to a long list of free agents and draft picks who were not highly thought of who ended up being just fine.

I mean, in '99, every team in the NFL passed on Tom Brady multiple times, so therefore, he hasn't had much of a career, right?

not making an argument. I said I was wondering. Good QBs are hard to find. RG evidently had no value to any other teams in the league. that makes me sit up and think....hmmmmmmm.

you are right that there is no universal rule that prevents him from being successful. anymore than there is one for Beck. hey..I can admit this: there is a rational and an irrational (aesthetic) component to my distaste for RG.