The QB horserace

[burgold]

Yeah - it hasn't been anything close to perfection for either guy, but both have had their moments. Grossman probably wins the first half based on the last drive but he had a lot more plays (or it seemed that way anyway).

True, but part of that was that Beck engineered at least one three and out. That's mostly on him.

Very nice drive though in q3

 

[BigRedskinDaddy]

I think they both look good, but on occasion they make some bad throws. I am leaning toward Beck because he seems more decisive, something I rate highly coming off JC's years in the pocket. I like his accuracy and his arm strength, supposedly a question mark, seems fine to me. He can make all the throws as far as I'm concerned.

Either guy seems capable of doing the job though. Shanny really has done his legwork with these guys. This game tonight impressed me -- the first team played well on both sides of the ball. I'm getting more excited for the season by the minute.

 

[Ax]

CUT CLEMENS NOW!!!

Not because he threw a pick that likely cost the game, but because we don't need a noodle arm that can't throw the ball 60 yds.

 

[Fear The Spear]

CUT CLEMENS NOW!!!

Not because he threw a pick that likely cost the game, but because we don't need a noodle arm that can't throw the ball 60 yds.

Good luck finding a 3rd string QB who could have thrown it 60+

 

[Elephant]

Beck really surprised me with that completion to Austin for a 30 yard gain. That was a heckuva touch to get that ball to him in stride. Overall, he did nothing to change my mind that Rex would be better for this team.

If anything, I think this QB race just got tighter.

 

[GSF]

Rex is more experienced and can get the ball down the field. It's gonna be Rex.

 

[burgold]

Beck really surprised me with that completion to Austin for a 30 yard gain. That was a heckuva touch to get that ball to him in stride. Overall, he did nothing to change my mind that Rex would be better for this team.

If anything, I think this QB race just got tighter.

He showed a much bigger arm than in game one. I wish that throw would have been better though. Armstrong adjusted and caught it, but had it been thrown a little more inside that would have been a touchdown.

 

[fansince62]

you heard it here: against teams with quick, fast defenses...RG will be a friggin disaster. He hasn't separated himself that much from Beck on the down or up side. if I'm an opposing d-coordinator...I'm bringing the farm after RG and just waiting for the turnovers. but if we have to endure him, so be it. after he totally tubes the Philly game making dumb-arse decisions under pressure we can get on with the business of finding an NFL caliber QB who has value against the best teams.

again: NOBODY....NOBODY...wanted RG when he was a FA. Why would that be? Having a system caretaker doesn't strike me as any kind of long-run plan for a team.

 

[CounterTrey]

Shanahan's O relies on the QB being able to effectively roll out on bootlegs with frequency to work with the misdirection inherent in this offensive scheme. Beck is clearly better in this regard and that's what separates the two for me at this point. Either way this team is another year from being a dangerous playoff worthy team so I'm perfectly fine with a guy like Grossman acting as caretaker if Beck fails.

The more I see of him though the more I'm starting to believe the Shanny's when they say they are confident in this guy. He's turning out to be one heck of a pleasant surprise if his play keeps up.

 

[Om]

you heard it here: against teams with quick, fast defenses...RG will be a friggin disaster. He hasn't separated himself that much from Beck on the down or up side. if I'm an opposing d-coordinator...I'm bringing the farm after RG and just waiting for the turnovers. but if we have to endure him, so be it. after he totally tubes the Philly game making dumb-arse decisions under pressure we can get on with the business of finding an NFL caliber QB who has value against the best teams.

again: NOBODY....NOBODY...wanted RG when he was a FA. Why would that be? Having a system caretaker doesn't strike me as any kind of long-run plan for a team.

Heh. Almost sounds like a blog entry.

I don't go as far as you in tearing Rex down--I actually think he could be overall pretty effective in this offense--but I agree Beck has the greater upside and potential to do much better than "effective" given his mobility, quick release and ability to throw from a variety of platforms.

... the truth is, if I’m coaching against the Redskins offense this season, my preference is to defend Rex Grossman over John Beck.

Why? Because I know where Rex is going to be. Because I feel confident that if I can take away his first option more often than not, and force him to move, re-load, improvise, I stand a pretty good chance of forcing errors. Of creating that one key errant pass, logging that one key sack, and, given his proven penchant for losing control of the ball when hit, creating that game-altering turnover.

Yes, Rex Grossman is going to challenge me down the field. Particularly if his first option comes open. But over the course of a game, I like my chances of keeping him generally under control, and more importantly, generating that crucial turnover if I can take away his first option and apply consistent pressure.

Beck, meanwhile, is the kind of opposing quarterback that drives me to distraction.

You can have the perfect defense called. You can break a pass rusher clean. You can have the man dead to rights and in the cross-hairs for a crunching sack ... only to see him whip a siderarm dart out of traffic with that quick-trigger release. Or sidestep a pass rusher, drift into open space and go downfield quickly and accurately.

A guy like Beck will throw off his back foot, drifting sideways, at full gallop—from any platform—and find a receiver operating outside the confines of the initial play call and improvising on the run as well.

It's a morale-killer.

If the John Beck we saw against the Indianapolis Colts last week is any indication, he is the kind of quarterback that will turn opposing defensive coordinators (and fans) hair gray, set their teeth to grinding and have their backsides puckering, every time a play breaks down and he starts moving.

 

[Ax]

after he totally tubes the Philly game making dumb-arse decisions under pressure we can get on with the business of finding an NFL caliber QB who has value against the best teams.

Only problem is, the QB tree has already dropped it's fruit for this season.

So, embrace Rex, if he's the starter. Send transcendental meditated thoughts of confidence to him. Hell, send him flowers.

The course for the season is set. It's either-or-and, Grossman/Beck.

Lemonade, my brother. Lemonade.

Just try to enjoy it.

The weekly fansince-Ryman Report will be brutal if the things don't go well this season.

Of course, when they do go well, the Spin It To Win It "How We're Still Technically Right Report" should make for some fascinating reading.

 

[Om]

Heh. Had forgotten about the "Marriage is a Horserace" vid linked in the "Similar Threads" window below. Worth another look.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Not sure why people are sold either way - it looks pretty even to me at this point. Beck hurt himself with that wormburner to Moss on 3rd down, but as CT pointed out, he's just better on the rollouts and faster also. He still looks more comfortable in the pocket to me.

 

[Elephant]

Not sure why people are sold either way - it looks pretty even to me at this point. Beck hurt himself with that wormburner to Moss on 3rd down, but as CT pointed out, he's just better on the rollouts and faster also. He still looks more comfortable in the pocket to me.

I just don't see this. He was quick to roll out of the pocket at any hint of pressure while Rex stood in the pocket and made some solid and some not so solid throws. But Rex stood in the pocket with much more confidence. At the hint of pressure, Beck either scrambled, took a poor sack when he had time to throw the ball or threw dirtballs.

Edit: And when did you watch the first half? You said you hadn't watched it, so I was wondering how you could make that claim that Beck was more comfortable in the pocket?

 

[Lanky Livingston]

I just don't see this. He was quick to roll out of the pocket at any hint of pressure while Rex stood in the pocket and made some solid and some not so solid throws. But Rex stood in the pocket with much more confidence. At the hint of pressure, Beck either scrambled, took a poor sack when he had time to throw the ball or threw dirtballs.

Edit: And when did you watch the first half? You said you hadn't watched it, so I was wondering how you could make that claim that Beck was more comfortable in the pocket?

Should have added "from what I saw" of him.

 

[Elephant]

Should have added "from what I saw" of him.

Exactly. From what I have seen, which was every down either QB has played this off-season at least twice, Rex Grossman looks more comfortable in the pocket to me. Beck looked pretty solid last night, but his strength has not been staying in the pocket. He likes to move around, which may be a strength like Om has been saying.

 

[servumtuum]

This is starting to sound like an "apples vs. oranges" type of thing. Grossman and Beck play with contrasting styles and modes of operation, the question to me at least, seems to boil down to which player's style is going to fit better in the way the team as a whole plays. That question is still unsettled, I think, Grossman is better at game management-if a bit mire of a "plodding, grind it out" style-while Beck is quicker, more creative, with the caveat that not enough of him has been seen to develop a true sense of potential consistency.

At least that's where I am so far in my analysis.

 

[stevenaa]

The are equal but different. Different strengths and weaknesses but overall competence is about the same. Just gotta pick which set of flaws you want. I think Rex is a known and not likely to make any great strides, but it's not impossilbe. Beck, given the time, might make a lot of improvement, but it's not a guarentee.

 

[Goaldeje]

This is starting to sound like an "apples vs. oranges" type of thing. Grossman and Beck play with contrasting styles and modes of operation, the question to me at least, seems to boil down to which player's style is going to fit better in the way the team as a whole plays. That question is still unsettled, I think, Grossman is better at game management-if a bit mire of a "plodding, grind it out" style-while Beck is quicker, more creative, with the caveat that not enough of him has been seen to develop a true sense of potential consistency.

At least that's where I am so far in my analysis.

That's why I'm leaning towards Beck, albeit a small lean. Defenses have so little tape on him, just the mystery alone of what he could do might be worth an early win. Besides which, he seems to move well on the run to me, which is critical in Shanahan's bootleg offense.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

I really want Beck to succeed just to make Parcells suffer. First, he tells Chris Cooley he'll never be an NFL player; If John becomes a legit NFL QB, it would make him look even worse!

Petty? You bet.