The New Washington Redskins Thread

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Win4us

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Yeah, Rivera seems to have brought the whole damn litter of panthers over & it would be nice if any remaining slots are filled elsewhere.

To me it says he wants to get to work in a hurry, & filling out his staff with former associates seems the quickest way to do that. I don't necessarily agree with that strategy but he's the coach.

If RR holds all these ex/new employees to a high standard and doesn't tolerate failure it's fine for now though. But, if there's an area that is less than stellar he needs to be able to fire & rehire on the spot, regardless of past affiliation. All the repeated chances given to shite coaches the skins are known for should NEVER be repeated.
 

Boone

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Yeah, Rivera seems to have brought the whole damn litter of panthers over & it would be nice if any remaining slots are filled elsewhere.

To me it says he wants to get to work in a hurry, & filling out his staff with former associates seems the quickest way to do that. I don't necessarily agree with that strategy but he's the coach.

If RR holds all these ex/new employees to a high standard and doesn't tolerate failure it's fine for now though. But, if there's an area that is less than stellar he needs to be able to fire & rehire on the spot, regardless of past affiliation. All the repeated chances given to shite coaches the skins are known for should NEVER be repeated.
Isn't that really what is uncomfortable to Redskins fans though Win? It has been the Redskins that have gone through a littany of 'shite coaches'...not Rivera or the Panthers. We are traumatized and see everything through that filter. Look - we hired a HC who was a lot more successful leading the Panthers than anyone we've had in 20 years (and that includes Joe Gibbs). Based on that alone he can hire whoever he wants and I'm not worried about it. I get the concern but I don't know enough about these coaches to be critical yet.
 

Win4us

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At the moment there's only 1 he's rehired that I really dislike in the o-line coach, the rest are still TBD. We've been needing a house cleaning and complete staff rollover for far too long and it's finally happening. What I'm saying is it would be nice to have some fresh eyes integrated into the RR system, preferably from the more successful teams outside of his coaching tree to give different perspective.

I do have faith in RR and believe we're going to climb out of the cellar immediately and back to respectability within the next couple years. He's obviously had more success than what our steaming pile of a team has had, & that alone should give trust to his brand.
 

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Shanahan was easily more successful than Rivera, if you're comparing how they did prior to coming to Washington, which is how I interpreted it.
That's not how I was looking at it - but I can see the logic in that. I guess I'm operating from the perspective of a lot of fans that Rivera hasn't been that successful with the Panthers (he has).

But you're overstating Shanahan's supremacy by quite a bit. Shanahan's career winning % was .552
Rivera's so far? .546

Of course Shanahan had the 2 Super Bowl wins. He also had a HOF QB and a HOF RB on those rosters. Rivera hasn't had anything close to that to work with.

And Shanahan was far from special here in DC.
 

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And Shanahan was far from special here in DC.
Maybe not, but what his son did in the year we won the division was sheer brilliance. He got the best you'll ever see from RG3.
 

Fear The Spear

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And Shanahan was far from special here in DC.
By Redskin standards, he was super special :)

But you're overstating Shanahan's supremacy by quite a bit. Shanahan's career winning % was .552
Rivera's so far? .546

Of course Shanahan had the 2 Super Bowl wins. He also had a HOF QB and a HOF RB on those rosters.
Besides just those, he also can take credit for these admirable accomplishments - all prior to Washington :)

Won 1st in the division 3 times.
2nd in the division 7 times.
Reached playoffs 7 times.
Won 8 playoff games
 
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Boone

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He also coached 20 years to Rivera's 9. Give it time :)

You can't discount the impact of Elway and Davis. Shanahan was a good coach. He still won a lot of games even with guys like Jake Plummer and Jay Cutler under center. I don't know that I think he's dramatically better than Rivera, just in terms of coaching ability. Just my opinion. Rivera has coached 7 playoff games in his 9 years and 1 Super Bowl - despite playing in the same division as the Saints and the Falcons.

I'd argue Shanahan has been overrated some, and Rivera underrated a bit. We'll see how it goes in DC.
 

Beetlejuice

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That's not how I was looking at it - but I can see the logic in that. I guess I'm operating from the perspective of a lot of fans that Rivera hasn't been that successful with the Panthers (he has).

But you're overstating Shanahan's supremacy by quite a bit. Shanahan's career winning % was .552
Rivera's so far? .546

Of course Shanahan had the 2 Super Bowl wins. He also had a HOF QB and a HOF RB on those rosters. Rivera hasn't had anything close to that to work with.

And Shanahan was far from special here in DC.
I'm not blown away because Rivera never had back to back winning seasons, and he's had twice as many losing seasons as winning seasons. Shannahan had 10 winning seasons and 10 losing seasons, and we tainted that for him. His win percentage was .598 before his stint in DC.
 

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He has definitely had a mixed record but I'd again point to the division the Panthers play in and Cam Newton's ineffectiveness the past several seasons due to injuries as challenging factors. I still think the man can coach.


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I definitely think you have to look at how coaches fared before Snyder vs during Snyder. That's the whole point.

Schottenheimer was 145-85-1 before coming here. Under Snyder he went 8-8 and got fired.

Gibbs was 124-60 before coming back. Under Snyder he went 30-34.

Shanahan was 146-98 before coming here. Under Snyder he went 24-40 and got fired.

Rivera was 76-63-1 before coming here.

Let's hope the pattern has ended. However Rivera does not get more benefit of the doubt from me than any of the other guys on that list. I think thats fair.
 

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I definitely think you have to look at how coaches fared before Snyder vs during Snyder. That's the whole point.

Schottenheimer was 145-85-1 before coming here. Under Snyder he went 8-8 and got fired.

Gibbs was 124-60 before coming back. Under Snyder he went 30-34.

Shanahan was 146-98 before coming here. Under Snyder he went 24-40 and got fired.

Rivera was 76-63-1 before coming here.

Let's hope the pattern has ended. However Rivera does not get more benefit of the doubt from me than any of the other guys on that list. I think thats fair.
That means when you compare their career win percentage here to what it was prior, they averaged a drop off of .144 and a pattern like that would give Rivera a .403 win percentage as our coach. Well personally, I'm not a fan of trends and patterns, and I hope Rivera finds a way to succeed where others couldn't. Maybe he'll reverse the pattern and be .691 here. It's nice to dream ain't it?
 

MikefromOH

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Ron Rivera was a great DC in San Diego. He could get anyone fired up and hitting. He did the same in Carolina. He got that team fired up and hitting. He will do the same here in DC. I would bet anything on that.

The issue is going to be WR, TE, and QB. Our OL needs to beef us like everyone elses, but we are really close to being good on offense.
 

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Ron Rivera was a great DC in San Diego. He could get anyone fired up and hitting. He did the same in Carolina. He got that team fired up and hitting. He will do the same here in DC. I would bet anything on that.

The issue is going to be WR, TE, and QB. Our OL needs to beef us like everyone elses, but we are really close to being good on offense.
This is why I'm skeptical drafting a pass rusher (no matter how good) is the right move. I'd rather we trade down and pick up the best TE, WR (Jeudy), and/or OL available.


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Henry

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Ron Rivera was a great DC in San Diego. He could get anyone fired up and hitting. He did the same in Carolina. He got that team fired up and hitting. He will do the same here in DC. I would bet anything on that.

The issue is going to be WR, TE, and QB. Our OL needs to beef us like everyone elses, but we are really close to being good on offense.
Did you mean we are really close to being good on DEFENSE? Because I agree with that.

I think we are far away from being good on offense. Like super-far away.

Personally, I'd get the generational pass-rusher, finally make that DL the centerpiece of our defense, and build a dominant unit that can take over games. A defensive line and a QB gives any team a puncher's chance. Once the defense is set, then I'd worry about putting the offense together. I'd rather have one dominant and one bad side of the ball than two mediocre sides. If our identity is going to be a fired up hitting defense, let's embrace that.
 

MikefromOH

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Did you mean we are really close to being good on DEFENSE? Because I agree with that.

I think we are far away from being good on offense. Like super-far away.

Personally, I'd get the generational pass-rusher, finally make that DL the centerpiece of our defense, and build a dominant unit that can take over games. A defensive line and a QB gives any team a puncher's chance. Once the defense is set, then I'd worry about putting the offense together. I'd rather have one dominant and one bad side of the ball than two mediocre sides. If our identity is going to be a fired up hitting defense, let's embrace that.
With defense, I think it is simple. Keep them off the field as much as possible, and have someone with the IQ above a potato calling the plays.. After that, let the players play.

for offense, I think we are closer than "super far away". We have a stud RB who shows no signs in getting older, a stud YOUNG WR with some up and comers around him.
Sims is going to be good...he just needs to get up to speed.
We need to address TE in a really bad way. Reed needs to be forced to retire, and Davis has something going on (?)
We need to cut Thompson and move on. he has lost whatever edge and explosiveness he had. he is just costing us now
Moses needs to go. That man is a walking injury wrapped in a penalty.

but, we have great pieces there. Get Trent back, re-sign Scherff, see if Guice can do it...get a vet TE and WR and we can put up 20 a game.
 

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On offense we have Terry McLaurin, who looks like a starter, and that's about it. Sims may or may not be good. Haskins may or may not be good. Peterson is 400 years old. Williams might sign with us after all. Maybe Scherff will too.

Am I missing anyone? That's the entire lineup of promising players on offense. That's about as close to nothing as a professional team can get. There is a reason the 2019 Redskin offense was historically bad, and it wasn't all the coach.

I'm not saying we ignore the offense. Lord knows we can't. But we're not close there. We are TERRIBLE there. It's going to take years to build that offense up.

I say let's try and win with what we have, namely, defense. We have bonafide starters one that line. We have a defensive-minded coach. Let's get that shored up. We can do that in one offseason. An edge rusher, add a few to the back seven. Done. We win games 17-10 the first year and then build that offense.
 

MikefromOH

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On offense we have Terry McLaurin, who looks like a starter, and that's about it. Sims may or may not be good. Haskins may or may not be good. Peterson is 400 years old. Williams might sign with us after all. Maybe Scherff will too.

Am I missing anyone? That's the entire lineup of promising players on offense. That's about as close to nothing as a professional team can get. There is a reason the 2019 Redskin offense was historically bad, and it wasn't all the coach.

I'm not saying we ignore the offense. Lord knows we can't. But we're not close there. We are TERRIBLE there. It's going to take years to build that offense up.

I say let's try and win with what we have, namely, defense. We have bonafide starters one that line. We have a defensive-minded coach. Let's get that shored up. We can do that in one offseason. An edge rusher, add a few to the back seven. Done. We win games 17-10 the first year and then build that offense.
Adrian Peterson had almost 900 yards and that includes not being dressed for a game and having Gruden as the playcaller. He is broke, he wants to break records, and he is durable as can be. He is a stud.

Sims had 310 receiving yards, 845 return yards, and 6 touchdowns. I think going with the "may be good" is a pretty safe bet.

We need a vet true #1 WR in there until McLaurin steps up, but we aren't that far off. Getting the ball to them was the issue more than anything.

I am not disagreeing with drafting more O than anything else, but we aren't that far off. A stud TE like Kelce, Kittle, etc and the whole receiving game changes. They are there...we just need to draft them.
 

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Sims is talented. Kelvin Harmon is as well. But we need a big road grading TE (if he can catch passes all the better) and a true complementary WR opposite McLaurin. Our backfield is going to be a question mark. Can Guice stay on the field? Does AP suddenly get old? What do we have in Bryce Love?

I want to go offense early because I don't believe in ‘generational talent' - not that they don't happen, but until you see a guy in the pro's, you can't possibly know if he meets that bar. I've said before, I prefer an every down player when using a high pick. And I'm of the belief that with Rivera and Del Rio, and a switch to the 4-3, our defense is going to look a lot better.

All an academic exercise since they'll do what they're going to do. I still think best thing that could happen is a bidding war for pick 2 (whether it's for Burrow, Young, or Tua) that sees the Skins get an offer to trade down that they can't refuse :)


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MikefromOH

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I was talking to my work sports buddy this morning about "generational talent". its really hit or miss with that; especially in this day and age

Lawrence Taylor - (2) one of the best
Derrick Thomas - (4) one of the best

Clowney - (1) mediocre, maybe good
Myles Garrett - (1) decent, maybe good.

John Randle - undrafted
London Fletcher - undrafted

I would rather find a John Randle than waste a #1 on a guy that is a luxury.
 

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