Only if we get to toast marshmallows over a fire.
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Only if we get to toast marshmallows over a fire.
I'd tell em they should do something about Jackson being on a bill then, if they are so upset about that. It was, after all, one of his biggest policies as president....
servumtuum
The Owner's Favorite
I can tell you already what I think the most likely counter-argument to using that example would be.
The team name chosen at that school was chosen by a Native American population and not externally imposed by a non-Native American population whose history includes the creation of the reservation itself thus making it a case of the "correctness", if you will, of the name being determined by who did the choosing.
I almost hope some high-profile (likely non-Native) do-gooder does try to make that argument, serv. It might well become more a reduction-to-absurdity plank than any kind of legitimization of the name-change crowd's already almost evidence-free "case."
servumtuum
The Owner's Favorite
Oh, to be sure, I wasn't making any statement about how valid the counter-argument might be just that I have seen it used in various forms and figured at some point it would be used again.
Just because an argument may not have any validity to it has pretty much nothing to do with people using it-particularly if they feel strongly about whatever it is they're arguing.
Just because an argument may not have any validity to it has pretty much nothing to do with people using it-particularly if they feel strongly about whatever it is they're arguing.
FedEx is headquartered right here in Memphis (just look up in the air and on the ground - FedEx planes and trucks everywhere) and Mr. Smith will not betray the team he partially owns.
FedEx CEO Fred Smith declines to give his personal opinion on the Redskins name - The Washington Post
FedEx CEO Fred Smith declines to give his personal opinion on the Redskins name - The Washington Post
Fear The Spear
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MikeSr619
The Cheerleader
with no real knowledge and no real skills he just resorts to depending on what everyone else says.
but, like with most people who do that, it's going to get its followers.
Ive been posting and reposting on Facebook so my friends (some who challenge it) can see just how misinformed they have been and just how NOT racist this is.
but, like with most people who do that, it's going to get its followers.
Ive been posting and reposting on Facebook so my friends (some who challenge it) can see just how misinformed they have been and just how NOT racist this is.
Doesn't that counter-argument then acknowledge the term "Redskins" is not racist? Isn't that the entire lawsuit, that this word is racist and disparaging toward a population? I don't get how they can even make that counter argument without damaging their entire case...
Chris, I've known you for a long time now. I'm thinking maybe all the way back to the TSN boards. The good ol days when I would say something dumb, and get hammered by Reaper or Art... LOL. I realized a long time ago you didn't visit often, and rarely got involved in the discussion. It drives me nuts when people who get it fade away.
I hated when ES was snatched up by the team, because I knew it would quickly loose that small town feel. The place was like a dream come true. Dreams are just dreams unless you make them into reality. I hung in for a long time over there, before pullin the plug. Nothing is perfect, and while we've had some bumps in the road here, this site is the realization of what guys like Die Hard, Tarhog, Blade, Om The Bard, Blade, Art, Henry, and other strove for. The beauty of ES in the early days was that we policed ourselves, but we also led by example. I think we have that here at BGO, but nothing is perfect.
Is it worth dealing with a little drama from time to time ? For me it is. Being geographically challenged, (I coined that phrase on TSN
) without a site like this, I might as well be a friggin Tampa fan. It's my connection to the team, and I'll be dipped in shit if I'm going to let anybody ruin it for me.
I'm really not trying to pile on here. Walk away if that's what works for ya, and nobody would ever think the less of you, weather that means anything to you or not.
Of course, I'd rather see ya involved here. Either way, you dam well better get in touch if your gonna be in my area. I can always use an excuse to go out for a brew.
I hated when ES was snatched up by the team, because I knew it would quickly loose that small town feel. The place was like a dream come true. Dreams are just dreams unless you make them into reality. I hung in for a long time over there, before pullin the plug. Nothing is perfect, and while we've had some bumps in the road here, this site is the realization of what guys like Die Hard, Tarhog, Blade, Om The Bard, Blade, Art, Henry, and other strove for. The beauty of ES in the early days was that we policed ourselves, but we also led by example. I think we have that here at BGO, but nothing is perfect.
Is it worth dealing with a little drama from time to time ? For me it is. Being geographically challenged, (I coined that phrase on TSN
) without a site like this, I might as well be a friggin Tampa fan. It's my connection to the team, and I'll be dipped in shit if I'm going to let anybody ruin it for me.I'm really not trying to pile on here. Walk away if that's what works for ya, and nobody would ever think the less of you, weather that means anything to you or not.
Of course, I'd rather see ya involved here. Either way, you dam well better get in touch if your gonna be in my area. I can always use an excuse to go out for a brew.
Fear The Spear
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Chris, I've known you for a long time now. I'm thinking maybe all the way back to the TSN boards. The good ol days when I would say something dumb, and get hammered by Reaper or Art... LOL. I realized a long time ago you didn't visit often, and rarely got involved in the discussion. It drives me nuts when people who get it fade away.
I hated when ES was snatched up by the team, because I knew it would quickly loose that small town feel. The place was like a dream come true. Dreams are just dreams unless you make them into reality. I hung in for a long time over there, before pullin the plug. Nothing is perfect, and while we've had some bumps in the road here, this site is the realization of what guys like Die Hard, Tarhog, Blade, Om The Bard, Blade, Art, Henry, and other strove for. The beauty of ES in the early days was that we policed ourselves, but we also led by example. I think we have that here at BGO, but nothing is perfect.
Is it worth dealing with a little drama from time to time ? For me it is. Being geographically challenged, (I coined that phrase on TSN
I'm really not trying to pile on here. Walk away if that's what works for ya, and nobody would ever think the less of you, weather that means anything to you or not.
Of course, I'd rather see ya involved here. Either way, you dam well better get in touch if your gonna be in my area. I can always use an excuse to go out for a brew.
I think you posted in the wrong thread.....and the thread you meant to post in, isn't even in this forum ! So, how'd you end up doin that Miles !?
TomE
The Pro Bowler
Has anyone of your group participated in the photo project of the NCAI?
Native American Redskins fan voices should be heard over there as well, if they throw out some grief then it might be pointed out that their claim to represent is very selective.
#ProudToBe | ChangeTheMascot.orgChangeTheMascot.org
servumtuum
The Owner's Favorite
K., you just went to the core of the issue from what my digging around seems to indicate. There seem to exist two very different definitions of racism currently.
On one side you have the "dictionary" definition of racism-this from the online Merriam-Webster:
: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2
: racial prejudice or discrimination
On the other you have this. This is the crux of the argument being used, it seems, by most of the most vociferous name-change advocates.
"racism is prejudice plus power" (I did research on at least a dozen websites, including some which do mention the Redskins name issue, looking for racism definitions used in the Redskins name controversy and this phrase showed up more than any other.). In the example under discussion, as I understand things, this definition boils down to whites exercising, or having-or having had-the ability-or in this definition the "power", to exercise whatever prejudices may have been in place to the extent of affecting Native Americans as a whole to an extent of having damaged the social condition of said Native Americans. This ability-again, by this definition-removes from them (whites) the ability to use the term "Redskins" without it having gained, as a result, a disparaging race-based connotation.
I'm not at all sure how accurate my reading of things here is but I think I got pretty close.
Again, I'm not making a case for anything here, just an attempt to find out on what basis claims are being made.
Personally, I'm of the general opinion that Halbritter should be pointedly ignored. Engaging him in any way is detrimental. You'd have better luck convincing a tree to stop blocking your sunlight.
Thank you for your in depth response, Professor Smarty Pants
In all seriousness, thank you very much for that explanation. I've been too lazy to dig deeply into the specific arguments of the case, but your explanation of the racism definition the name-change proponents are using makes sense. Not that I agree with the 2nd definition they're using, but that clarifies a lot.
TomE
The Pro Bowler
Perhaps I misunderstand what the NCAI is all about. Didn't see Halbritter listed 'officially' on the NCAI exec committee and didn't realize that he was a mouthpiece for the organization.
Executive Committee | NCAI
Just figured that the opportunity to represent the Skins in a positive light amongst the group that advocates the change might help.
This is certainly interesting. Quite a battle ahead for those who are looking for such change.
Washington Redskins Trademark: 600 Other Companies with Indian Mascots - TIME
Washington Redskins Trademark: 600 Other Companies with Indian Mascots - TIME
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