The HC Dan Quinn Discussion Thread

[Boone]

Galdi referenced that possibility when he was a guest on the Blind Pig podcast Voice. I think we were all surprised at how hot he thinks Quinns seat is heading into this season. You may be right that it was AP pushing for them to find a new OC - I mentioned that is possible. But one thing I know about Corporate America is that when things go badly, it will be the guys with the least juice whose heads roll, not the big kahuna. It doesn’t matter who said or suggested what.

 

[burgold]

2. Picking a coordinator in Kliff then not liking his offense. If you're going to get Kliff, then you've got to be all in on Kliff, good or bad. Trying to force Kliff into something he's not is destined to fail. They tried to move to this power running thing which they weren't built for and didn't have the players for, and Kliff wasn't good at calling, and it was just all kindof a mess.

The thing Kliff really tried to sell when he was hired was that he had "seen the light," that he'd been studying offenses really hard and been reborn, and that his offense would not be a variation of the Air Raid. Maybe Kliff believed it. Quinn certainly bought it. In the end, Kliff reverted. Maybe that was because of all the injuries and he just relied on what he knew best or maybe it was because with a flashy mobile toy like Jayden he couldn't resist.

So, I don't give Quinn a pass on choosing a coordinator whose philosophy didn't mesh with what he wanted, but it's probable that when they were going over gameplans and philosophies pre-hire, Kliff sold Dan a bag of goods. Then, in season one, it worked.

 

[Conn]

Cant disagree. The big question I'd have is if DQ were gone mid season, who would you have take over at HC? You have two new coordinators that I don't see as being prepared to named HC.

I know a guy like Anthony Lynn has HC experience but to have a RB coach be named HC over others feels odd.

EDIT - I can see this happening more like with one or two games remaining than to can DQ mid season. He is an endeared coach by most if not all that are around him. He and AP have also had a strong bond.

I mean, unless the offense is a total disaster you basically have to let Blough try his hand at it given his reputation, despite his youth and almost total lack of experience. If you don’t, he’s gone anyways. Not the ideal way to try him out at all, and it’s rare that an Interim HC not only keeps the job but actually does well…and it’s likely he won’t even be a good OC yet…but if you’re going to let a guy like Anthony Lynn safely steer the ship into harbor to end the season then you may as well let Quinn keep his dignity and finish out the year. Because you aren’t gaining any new info just handing it off to a veteran to mercy kill the season.

That’s the main reason why I’d be surprised if we had a mid-season firing at all.

 

[burgold]

Honestly, I don't remember a situation where a midseason firing every really worked. I guess Antonio Pierce with the Raiders a few years back partly righted the ship. There are a few examples of a short term burst, but it's rare isn't it? It almost never happens that the midseason replacement turns out to be the next Vince Lombardi or Joe Gibbs.

 

[Conn]

It’s not usually done with the expectation that the team will turn it around, but usually more about amputating the gangrene limb before the locker room is lost beyond recovery and guys who might be part of your future, no longer want to be. It’s usually done late enough in the season that playoffs are out of the question, most Interim HC’s don’t actually get a fair shot at keeping the job even if they do win some games. It’s just about getting that guy out of the building once he’s lost his players, so that the fans and players see that change is coming

 

[Boone]

The thing Kliff really tried to sell when he was hired was that he had "seen the light," that he'd been studying offenses really hard and been reborn, and that his offense would not be a variation of the Air Raid. Maybe Kliff believed it. Quinn certainly bought it. In the end, Kliff reverted. Maybe that was because of all the injuries and he just relied on what he knew best or maybe it was because with a flashy mobile toy like Jayden he couldn't resist.

Kliff never came close to implementing the Air Raid offense here - I really don't know how you make that argument??? In 2025, we ran the ball on nearly half the offensive plays - we were the 9th highest run percentage team in the league. In 2024, we ran it the 6th most often of any team in the NFL. If Quinn didn't feel like Kingsbury was running a sustainable offense or what he wanted him to run, then I don't fault him for moving on from him - quite possible they just couldn't come to a common ground understanding. But he never ran anything close to Air Raid here.

Yes - some of those rushing stats are Jayden Daniels runs. But to be fair, drafting a dual threat QB with the #2 pick in the draft, and then expecting the OC not to call QB rushes - it doesn't make a lot of sense. I believe Jayden has gotten hurt as much in the pocket as on scrambles.

 

[skinsinparadise]

The thing Kliff really tried to sell when he was hired was that he had "seen the light," that he'd been studying offenses really hard and been reborn, and that his offense would not be a variation of the Air Raid. Maybe Kliff believed it. Quinn certainly bought it. In the end, Kliff reverted. Maybe that was because of all the injuries and he just relied on what he knew best or maybe it was because with a flashy mobile toy like Jayden he couldn't resist.

So, I don't give Quinn a pass on choosing a coordinator whose philosophy didn't mesh with what he wanted, but it's probable that when they were going over gameplans and philosophies pre-hire, Kliff sold Dan a bag of goods. Then, in season one, it worked.

For me, the way some of these stories are being framed makes it sound like Kliff Kingsbury initially ran exactly the kind of offense Dan Quinn wanted—until Quinn changed what he wanted, and Kliff either could not or would not adjust.

When Quinn hired Kliff, he specifically praised the offenses Kliff ran in Arizona and talked about how difficult they were to defend when Quinn was a defensive coordinator. So I do not think Kliff was brought in with the expectation that he would suddenly become a different kind of play-caller. Quinn seemed genuinely sold on Kliff’s approach and offensive philosophy.

But once the injuries piled up, it sounds like Quinn wanted more significant adjustments and Kliff did not fully buy in. I cannot remember which reporter said it, but there was speculation that the staff wanted to lean more heavily into 12 and 13 personnel after the injury issues began, and Kliff was not as willing to embrace that shift as Quinn would have liked.

So to me, this feels less like Kliff ignored the original plan and more like Quinn changed the plan midstream—and Kliff was not willing to adapt enough once that happened.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

I do not see a mid season canning either. AP has a lot of respect for DQ.

I have a hard time seeing Blough as being ready to be a med HC next year. Lets just see how he handles training camp, preseason and then dealing with his first season charged with the offense.

If was not willing or ready to be a HC then they'd need to see what offensive minded HC candidates are out there and get one. Tomlin is a no, Jayden needs to be teamed with an offensive minded HC in my eyes.

My general thought is if Blough shows he is ready for being a HC, then the team is probably doing pretty well and Quinn wouldn't be fired anyway.

I will say, I'm not entirely sure I care about an offensive minded HC vs. defensive minded HC. I know some really think it's the only way to go. And some have had some really good success. However the best HC over the 21st century was Bill Belichick, and he's a defensive guy, and the winner of last year's SB was Macdonald, and he's a defensive guy. So it can work either way. The one reason I like the offensive HC is so that there is stability essentially at OC, and the QB doesn't have to keep learning new offenses. However, Siriani is an offensive guy and I think this is going to be like year 8 or 9 in a row for them with a new OC/Playcaller, so that doesn't always work either.

Something Sean McVay said when he was hired as HC of the Rams, he was hired because of his offense and his ability to call plays. Which is why he kept the job, he's really good at it. But that means, by definition, if he's going to, practically speaking, be the HC + OC, he has to turn the defense over to somebody almost entirely because there aren't enough hours in the day to do anything else. That can work, or it can blow up in your face also.

It works in KC, Reid has an OC, but it's his offense and he calls the plays. Spags runs the defense basically with full autonomy. That works for them, and they've been massively successful with it. But look around at all the offensive HCs who get fired every year, and it didn't necessarily work for them.

There's no one "right answer."

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Galdi referenced that possibility when he was a guest on the Blind Pig podcast Voice. I think we were all surprised at how hot he thinks Quinns seat is heading into this season. You may be right that it was AP pushing for them to find a new OC - I mentioned that is possible. But one thing I know about Corporate America is that when things go badly, it will be the guys with the least juice whose heads roll, not the big kahuna. It doesn’t matter who said or suggested what.

I don't disagree with that. I think if Quinn gets fired, Peters gets at least one more shot to hire a HC.

I also think no matter who said what when, the simple fact they changed out the OC, DC and OL coach intentionally (some others changed because of defections or fill in promotions), which are arguably the three most important coaching staff positions, in year 3 of a HC's tenure, is just not a great look on the original hires no matter which way you slice it. And I'm sure that has Peters', and probably Harris' attention.

It better work. I think if Quinn wanted to play it safe, he keeps Kliff. He took a gamble. It had better work out or he's toast.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

The thing Kliff really tried to sell when he was hired was that he had "seen the light," that he'd been studying offenses really hard and been reborn, and that his offense would not be a variation of the Air Raid. Maybe Kliff believed it. Quinn certainly bought it. In the end, Kliff reverted. Maybe that was because of all the injuries and he just relied on what he knew best or maybe it was because with a flashy mobile toy like Jayden he couldn't resist.

So, I don't give Quinn a pass on choosing a coordinator whose philosophy didn't mesh with what he wanted, but it's probable that when they were going over gameplans and philosophies pre-hire, Kliff sold Dan a bag of goods. Then, in season one, it worked.

Kliff never ran anything like the air raid here. I think he implemented the exact offense he told Quinn he was going to implement:

- Up tempo
- Aggressive
- Use Daniels as a dual threat
- Explosive

There are 2 concepts which Kliff held very dear to his heart:
1. Use of no-huddle: He substituted no-huddle for the use of motion, both with the same intent of causing confusion to a defense.
2. Use of shotgun: He thought it gave the QB better field of vision and you could run/pass out of it just as well as any other set.

But if you look at the overall style of offense, it was a real blend of a lot of different styles of offense. He did call a lot of run, there were a lot of traditional type plays.

The offense wasn't perfect, but it was damn good in 2024. Part of that is Daniels, but part of that is also the position Kliff put him in.

My personal Kliff gripes were:

1. Too much substitution which destroyed the benefit of going no-huddle. Not to be confused with hurry-up.
2. Too static. Even if you're going no-huddle, that doesn't mean you can't put guys in motion. Or flip flop where guys line up.
3. Not varied enough: While I like shotgun, he could have used under center and pistol more, just to give defenses different looks to prepare for.
4. Predictable: One thing which has come out is the team didn't like the way the run scheme and pass scheme married together, so teams could tell pretty quickly if it was a run or pass. Play action wasn't as effective, and things were a little harder to disguise.

One thing I loved was that he threw a lot on first downs. Dumbass Jay Gruden called runs for an average of 1 yard 80% of the first downs from 2017 until he was fired. McVay didn't in 2015 and 2016, because McVay is not a dumbass. Actually, McVay DID do that once in 2015, the loss to Dallas on MNF. He came out after the game, said he was too conservative and would never do it again. And he didn't. Until the SB the Rams lost where he went into a play calling shell for some reason. He coached a really bad SB.

Did Quinn make the right move in hiring him? I'd say yes. Given that they had a top 5 offense with a rookie QB and made the NFC Championship Game. Which did in fact happen.

Did Quinn make the right choice by moving on from him? We'll find out in about 6 months.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

So to me, this feels less like Kliff ignored the original plan and more like Quinn changed the plan midstream—and Kliff was not willing to adapt enough once that happened.

Or capable of adapting mid-flight.

He might have been willing, just not really capable. Or he might not have thought it was the right idea. Or whatever. The offense, though, ironically, didn't suck in 2025, even without any WRs and a backup QB. It was actually league average in a lot of metrics.

But I think you're right, Quinn wanted an entire change of philosophy, and that didn't happen, and then he wanted a future change of philosophy, and that wasn't going to happen with Kliff.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

It’s not usually done with the expectation that the team will turn it around, but usually more about amputating the gangrene limb before the locker room is lost beyond recovery and guys who might be part of your future, no longer want to be. It’s usually done late enough in the season that playoffs are out of the question, most Interim HC’s don’t actually get a fair shot at keeping the job even if they do win some games. It’s just about getting that guy out of the building once he’s lost his players, so that the fans and players see that change is coming

Agreed, and I just don't see that happening with Quinn. He kept the entire locker room together through a miserable, depressing and disappointing 2025. It's probably his superpower, team building and keeping guys together.

 

[HTTR]

I still think Kliff was a good hire. His style and his experience working with mobile star QBs made him the perfect fit for Jayden getting his feet wet.

I also think moving on at this point and evolving the offense to something more modern is a good move. Jayden is ready for it and it will aid him the next stages of his development.

it’s absolutely possible for both those things to be true, and I actually think it’s the case. Things change quickly in the NFL and I’m glad DQ is not being stubborn about evolving. Coordinators come and go constantly in the NFL and I don’t see the fact that he’s changing things up going into year 3 as something he should be judged so harshly on.

 

[SkinsLife]

A telling factor is that Kliff didnt even get a whiff for an OC and definitely HC position after getting canned here from any other team, and thats after a historic 24 season. This tells me that the rest of the NFL isnt high on his O skill set.. and generally agree that his O does not work effectively long term in todays NFL

 

[burgold]

Kliff never came close to implementing the Air Raid offense here - I really don't know how you make that argument??? In 2025, we ran the ball on nearly half the offensive plays - we were the 9th highest run percentage team in the league. In 2024, we ran it the 6th most often of any team in the NFL. If Quinn didn't feel like Kingsbury was running a sustainable offense or what he wanted him to run, then I don't fault him for moving on from him - quite possible they just couldn't come to a common ground understanding. But he never ran anything close to Air Raid here.

Yes - some of those rushing stats are Jayden Daniels runs. But to be fair, drafting a dual threat QB with the #2 pick in the draft, and then expecting the OC not to call QB rushes - it doesn't make a lot of sense. I believe Jayden has gotten hurt as much in the pocket as on scrambles.

I'm not talking about what we did I'm talking about how Kliff sold himself. He laid about a BS story about how he had changed. You don't remember those pressers with Kliff extolling how he studied every NFL coordinator's tape and had completely reinvented himself?

 

[Boone]

I still think Kliff was a good hire. His style and his experience working with mobile star QBs made him the perfect fit for Jayden getting his feet wet.

I also think moving on at this point and evolving the offense to something more modern is a good move. Jayden is ready for it and it will aid him the next stages of his development.

it’s absolutely possible for both those things to be true, and I actually think it’s the case. Things change quickly in the NFL and I’m glad DQ is not being stubborn about evolving. Coordinators come and go constantly in the NFL and I don’t see the fact that he’s changing things up going into year 3 as something he should be judged so harshly on.

These are fair points. Quinn's decisions on the coordinators will be judged by the results and that's how it should be. I have some skepticism on Blough. I see folks comparing him to McVay but I don't see it. When you listened to McVay back in the day, you could see how incredibly smart and driven he was. Blough strikes me as a nice guy, I just don't get that same vibe, that he's some great offensive mind waiting to explode, from him. We'll see if Quinn (and other Blough fans who were apparently pursuing him elsewhere in the league) were right or not. I sort of hate it when folks bring up McVay as a comparison. Other than youth, there isn't much similarity in the situations. McVay had 6 years of experience as a coach (5 of them in the NFL) when he got his OC gig. Blough has 2 years in the NFL as an 'assistant coach'. Kingsbury had a top 10 offense (top 5 rushing attack) in 2024. He should get the same pass we give Quinn for 2025 due to major injuries. There may be philosophical reasons he wasn't retained, but I don't think anyone can argue he didn't perform well as an OC. I think his replacement was a surprise around the NFL and that's because he was producing and had an effective offense in Washington. It's an eyebrow raising move to replace a successful OC with an inexperienced unproven one. It just is.

None of that means Blough won't turn out to be the next big thing. But Quinn will be judged on the decision, just like he has been for hiring Joe Whitt Jr. as his best candidate to run Washington's defense.

 

[HTTR]

These are fair points. Quinn's decisions on the coordinators will be judged by the results and that's how it should be. I have some skepticism on Blough. I see folks comparing him to McVay but I don't see it. When you listened to McVay back in the day, you could see how incredibly smart and driven he was. Blough strikes me as a nice guy, I just don't get that same vibe, that he's some great offensive mind waiting to explode, from him. We'll see if Quinn (and other Blough fans who were apparently pursuing him elsewhere in the league) were right or not. I sort of hate it when folks bring up McVay as a comparison. Other than youth, there isn't much similarity in the situations. McVay had 6 years of experience as a coach (5 of them in the NFL) when he got his OC gig. Blough has 2 years in the NFL as an 'assistant coach'. Kingsbury had a top 10 offense (top 5 rushing attack) in 2024. He should get the same pass we give Quinn for 2025 due to major injuries. There may be philosophical reasons he wasn't retained, but I don't think anyone can argue he didn't perform well as an OC. I think his replacement was a surprise around the NFL and that's because he was producing and had an effective offense in Washington. It's an eyebrow raising move to replace a successful OC with an inexperienced unproven one. It just is.

None of that means Blough won't turn out to be the next big thing. But Quinn will be judged on the decision, just like he has been for hiring Joe Whitt Jr. as his best candidate to run Washington's defense.

Just based on nobody hiring him as head coach or OC I’d say you can at least make an argument about Kingsbury‘s effectiveness, or at least the perception of it around the league. IMO he was decent—somewhere between adequate and good. His being gone though I believe is more about the style of offense. Sure we can ignore the results from last year because of the injuries, but they certainly offered evidence that Kliffs offense wasn’t going to be sustainable long term for Jayden health-wise. And it’s a style of offense that has started to become outdated. Defenses have caught up to it. I agree with you that DQ like any coach will be held responsible for the performance of his coordinators, so I don’t blame him one bit for making the changes he did. He’s shown that he is willing to hold himself accountable and make changes to his philosophy to keep up with the times, and those are qualities I really like in a head coach.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Just based on nobody hiring him as head coach or OC I’d say you can at least make an argument about Kingsbury‘s effectiveness, or at least the perception of it around the league. IMO he was decent—somewhere between adequate and good. His being gone though I believe is more about the style of offense. Sure we can ignore the results from last year because of the injuries, but they certainly offered evidence that Kliffs offense wasn’t going to be sustainable long term for Jayden health-wise. And it’s a style of offense that has started to become outdated. Defenses have caught up to it. I agree with you that DQ like any coach will be held responsible for the performance of his coordinators, so I don’t blame him one bit for making the changes he did. He’s shown that he is willing to hold himself accountable and make changes to his philosophy to keep up with the times, and those are qualities I really like in a head coach.

Three separate thoughts:

1. I think Quinn showing willingness to change is very positive.
2. I think when Kliff didn't get a HC gig, or even and OC gig, going to work with Sean in LA was probably the best thing he could have done. He can learn from Sean. He won't run the offense, but it's the first time he's really been in a Shanahan style offense with somebody. And Sean is like a car wash, you go work for him, and he cleans you up, and you get more opportunitites.
3. I think the job Kliff did in 2024 was one of the best OC jobs you could have asked for. He took a rookie QB and a collection of older vets with one true weapon, and conceived a top 5 offense. And the 2025 offense, without a million things, wasn't bad either. I know I'm in the minority, but I don't believe the system had anything to do with Daniels getting hurt. I posted this elsewhere recently, but in 2024, he had 150 rush attempts. 75 scrambles, 75 called runs. Over 16 games, (he started, but missed essentially all of one game), that's about 4.5 scrambles and 4.5 called runs per game. Put another way, Kliff called, on average, one QB run per quarter per game. That's really not a lot. And if you draft a QB at #2 to be a dual threat QB, and you don't use their legs as a weapon, then that's a missed opportunity.

I wasn't in favor of replacing Kliff, but I'm also fine with it. He wasn't perfect by any stretch, but I think he was a good OC. I have pointed out the parts of his offense which I didn't like in other posts.

The question for him is going to be is he going to be able to learn from Sean? I wonder, every year Sean threatens to retire, and there's a rumor that when Stafford retires, he will retire. I kindof wonder if maybe there's a path to Kliff getting the Rams job if he stays there and learns and McVay retires, or takes a break from coaching. Maybe, maybe not. But it's an interesting thought.

 

[burgold]

Yep. I think year three is when you usually start talking about either extending or cutting a coach so this is a huge year. More so because one year after exceeding expectations he fell on face so badly even Quinn thought he had to blow up the coaching staff.