The HC Dan Quinn Discussion Thread

[Bulldog]

Sean McDermott was the coach in Buffalo but the GM over the 7 years that Allen was there completely failed to obtain the kind of talent and consistent productivity at WR and TE.

The other fact is the Bills consistently failed to make major moves to upgrade the defense. Signing 34 year old linebacker Von Miller a couple of years ago to me doesn't count.

When the Rams needed a cover corner McVay went out and rolled the dice to acquire a then in his prime Jalen Ramsey and he helped them win a Super Bowl.

The trouble is the Bills just haven't been willing to RISK trading a #1 pick or moving up in the draft to take impact players on that side of the ball.

They have more or less sat where their pick was and made the selections, at times in uninspired fashion.

Buffalo has lost the past three seasons in the playoffs but look at the numbers - points allowed - 33 points this year, 32 points last year to KC, 42 points to KC in 2021, etc.

Meanwhile their offense scored 30, 36, 27 in those games.

Seems to me the defense never rose to the level of a championship unit. Who is that on? Seems the GM got the owner's ear and saved his own ass.

 

[method man]

skinsinparadise I was thinking exactly this. The only job better than this one is the Bucs job. The coaching pool will be deeper next year

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Agree on the OL - aside from the fact that we are waiting for Tunsil to be re-signed/extended

Right, Tunsil is going to be the big thing to watch over the next few weeks/months.

Also, the question of what they are going to do with Chris Paul.

Quite honestly, it would be a shame if they let him walk.

This is the Quinn thread, so this is off topic, but I want them to trade Coleman, who's a better tackle than guard, re-sign Paul, (Hail Raiser is going to lose his mind on this one) re-sign Wylie as a backup swing tackle and guard, and extend Tunsil. And quite frankly, I'd like them to do it now. I think Coleman could fetch at least the same pick they spent on him, given he's proven he can be at least a serviceable starter at LT.

I think that would stabalize the line for the next couple of seasons. They can keep adding backup bodies later in the draft and see if they can get a few to stick.

They have so many places where they need to upgrade, they should just stand pat on the OL.

 

[Conn]

skinsinparadise I was thinking exactly this. The only job better than this one is the Bucs job. The coaching pool will be deeper next year

It’s true. But I want an offensive guy. No offense to McDermott but I’m not looking to run that back with him. Another year for this landscape of young offensive coaches to develop I think is good for us. For instance I’m hoping Udinski isn’t hired this year, he’s got promise. There wasn’t anyone I would have been truly geeked to hire this year so I wasn’t heartbroken, even though it feels like we’re wasting a year of Daniels while we wait. But it is what it is. I hope to be wrong and that we make a deep run this year, of course.

 

[method man]

Right, Tunsil is going to be the big thing to watch over the next few weeks/months.

Also, the question of what they are going to do with Chris Paul.

Quite honestly, it would be a shame if they let him walk.

This is the Quinn thread, so this is off topic, but I want them to trade Coleman, who's a better tackle than guard, re-sign Paul, (Hail Raiser is going to lose his mind on this one) re-sign Wylie as a backup swing tackle and guard, and extend Tunsil. And quite frankly, I'd like them to do it now. I think Coleman could fetch at least the same pick they spent on him, given he's proven he can be at least a serviceable starter at LT.

I think that would stabalize the line for the next couple of seasons. They can keep adding backup bodies later in the draft and see if they can get a few to stick.

They have so many places where they need to upgrade, they should just stand pat on the OL.

Sadly, if they are serious about running a zone scheme next year, they probably let Paul walk. Lacks the athleticism for it. If they aren't super comfortable with Coleman as starting LG, good news is no position in FA as deep as G this offseason

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

skinsinparadise I was thinking exactly this. The only job better than this one is the Bucs job. The coaching pool will be deeper next year

I don't know if I posted this somewhere or not, but this was not the right year to be firing a coach. With 10 other openings, lots of competition and not really enough candidates to go around. Hell, the Steelers hired Mike McCarthy. That should tell you everything you need to know about the depth of the NFL HC talent pool.

2022 was the last time 10 HC's were hired:

Only 2 (unless I'm getting something really wrong) are still employed:
Todd Bowles (Buccaneers)
Kevin O'Connell (Vikings)

The rest are all gone:
Brian Daboll (Giants) - Fired in 2025 season
Mike McDaniel (Dolphins) - Fired after 2025 season
Matt Eberflus (Bears) - Fired after 2024 season
Doug Pederson (Jaguars) - Fired after 2024 season
Josh McDaniels (Raiders) - Fired after 2023 season
Dennis Allen (Saints) - Fired after 2024 season
Nathaniel Hackett (Broncos) - Fired after 2022 season (lasted only 1 season)
Lovie Smith (Texans) - Fired after 2022 season (lasted only 1 season)

Conventional wisdom is you don't want to be in the mix with 9 other teams hiring a HC

 

[method man]

I don't know if I posted this somewhere or not, but this was not the right year to be firing a coach. With 10 other openings, lots of competition and not really enough candidates to go around. Hell, the Steelers hired Mike McCarthy. That should tell you everything you need to know about the depth of the NFL HC talent pool.

2022 was the last time 10 HC's were hired:

Only 2 (unless I'm getting something really wrong) are still employed:
Todd Bowles (Buccaneers)
Kevin O'Connell (Vikings)

The rest are all gone:
Brian Daboll (Giants) - Fired in 2025 season
Mike McDaniel (Dolphins) - Fired after 2025 season
Matt Eberflus (Bears) - Fired after 2024 season
Doug Pederson (Jaguars) - Fired after 2024 season
Josh McDaniels (Raiders) - Fired after 2023 season
Dennis Allen (Saints) - Fired after 2024 season
Nathaniel Hackett (Broncos) - Fired after 2022 season (lasted only 1 season)
Lovie Smith (Texans) - Fired after 2022 season (lasted only 1 season)

Conventional wisdom is you don't want to be in the mix with 9 other teams hiring a HC

Bowles should probably have been fired too this cycle, which would have left only one guy.

It's early but I think next season's crop with have McDermott, Tomlin (possibly) and Steichen (who probably gets fired) with a crop of OCs who get another year to grow in their seats

 

[method man]

It’s true. But I want an offensive guy. No offense to McDermott but I’m not looking to run that back with him. Another year for this landscape of young offensive coaches to develop I think is good for us. For instance I’m hoping Udinski isn’t hired this year, he’s got promise. There wasn’t anyone I would have been truly geeked to hire this year so I wasn’t heartbroken, even though it feels like we’re wasting a year of Daniels while we wait. But it is what it is. I hope to be wrong and that we make a deep run this year, of course.

I hear you and agree with you for the most part. I'm willing to take a bet on a stud coach like McDermott. The thing with a guy like him is he attracts very good assistant coaches. It's true OC could be a revolving door but they've managed that side of the ball with Allen

Ultimately, I'd say Steichen is my guy if he comes loose. He's done well with Daniel Jones, Anthony Richardson, Flacco and Gardner Minshew at QB. Bring him to a better organization and pair him with a stud DC and let him cook

 

[skinzplay]

Congrats to Macdonald and the Seahawks. Two years in, and he's led them to the SB. He recognized a short-coming in the O after the 2024 season and didn't hesitate to fire Grubb. Made an excellent decision with Kubiak and here we are. Good coaching, good leadership, good vision, decisive decision-making. Such CA contrast in leadership.

As for DQ: Whitt, philosophical disagreement with an OC who you hired knowing full well what his philosophy was........ I do hope 28-3/34-28 isn't the real DQ. It might just be. We'll find out this coming season.

 

[Kam in CA]

Well two coaches hired within last two years taking their teams to Superbowl! Just saying. It’s not hard if your coaching is good and you have a good roster. We need time to get there and I’m not sure DQ is the guy for it. He is a defensive HC and our D sucked both years under him.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Congrats to Macdonald and the Seahawks. Two years in, and he's led them to the SB. He recognized a short-coming in the O after the 2024 season and didn't hesitate to fire Grubb. Made an excellent decision with Kubiak and here we are. Good coaching, good leadership, good vision, decisive decision-making. Such CA contrast in leadership.

As for DQ: Whitt, philosophical disagreement with an OC who you hired knowing full well what his philosophy was........ I do hope 28-3/34-28 isn't the real DQ. It might just be. We'll find out this coming season.

Macdonald got EXTREMELY lucky Darnold looks to actually be a top 5-10 QB.

His path from “I’m seeing ghosts” to this might be the single greatest improvement by a QB … ever? I can’t think of another example. The only one which kindof comes to mind is Brees. He wasn’t hot early with the charger to the point they drafted his replacement in Rivers. Then he has an amazing year with the Chargers, hits FA, goes to the saints and the rest is history.

I can’t remember any other QBs who were as bad as Darnold was turning it around to become as good as he is now.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

I’d like to remind everybody Quinn did get the team to the NFC Championship game in his first season.

It’s not like he showed up here, was a bum, and won 10 games in 2 years.

This year was bad.

Last year wasn’t.

Is he the right guy? I don’t know. But if you asked literally anybody who “won” the 2024 coaching cycle at the end of 2024, the answer would be us with Quinn.

Things change fast.

 

[skinzplay]

Yeah VOR, the Seattle coaching staff has done a damn good job with Darnold. KOC worked wonders with him, too. I suspect he finally got solid coaching and development after hitting SF, MN and Seattle. I'm happy for him. Imagine if he actually wins a SB. That's something hard to imagine 5, 6 years ago.

As for DQ, poor decisions often have a way of coming back to bite. Here's hoping we're on much better footing moving forward.

 

[skinsinparadise]

I’d like to remind everybody Quinn did get the team to the NFC Championship game in his first season.

It’s not like he showed up here, was a bum, and won 10 games in 2 years.

This year was bad.

Last year wasn’t.

Is he the right guy? I don’t know. But if you asked literally anybody who “won” the 2024 coaching cycle at the end of 2024, the answer would be us with Quinn.

Things change fast.

Absolutely and that bought him IMO 2026. But it doesn't buy him 2027 at least not with me and I am guessing not with Harris either.

I don't think the 2024 season was a flash in the pan where they caught lightening in a bottle. But I don't of course know for sure. I don't think the 2025 season defines Quinn as some of his critics say it does. But I don't of course know for sure.

While I don't think he needs to match the heights of 2024, I also disagree with the thought that a so so season is fine, too. If this ends up 8-9, it sort of means to me that so so defines Quinn's era. Great season plus atrocious season plus so so season = so so reign. You can say the greatness of season 1 will always be special and offset everything but the issue with that is this last season wasn't bad, it was atrocious. So dizzying heights to hitting abysmal lows.

Yes, he had an excuse last year but he wasn't on his own accord hot IMO as to how he approached the season and even he admitted the same and big time so.

So while I don't share some people's pessimism for next season. I am optimstic and that's mainly about Jayden. No way Quinn gets a pass from me if he has a mediocre season. At that point he would have a 9 year sample and be at 500 for that run. And he would have done that with Matt Ryan and Jayden Daniels as his QBs, and with a narrative that this defensive minded HC also has bad defenses mostly when he's the HC.

So not only would I want him gone I think it would be nauseating to keep him if this team doesn't have a good year. He's been giving a chance to learn from his previous stint. He said he's a different coach from Atlanta -- new and improved supposedly and I'll take him at his word but if he cements his 3 year run here with a mediocre record with the same problems that plagued him in Atlanta --- he needs to go IMO.

But my gut is he and this team will bounce back. And for those who think it would be a bad look to can him for a so so run on the aggregate for 3 years -- apparently the league doesn't see it like that. Keim doubled down today that part of the hard part of this coordinator search is job security and the perception that Quinn is in a must win year. And no that narrative doesn't seem to be because they just think Harris has a quick trigger but because he deserves to be on the hotseat -- it just makes intuitive sense to potential coordinators.

 

[skinsinparadise]

Macdonald got EXTREMELY lucky Darnold looks to actually be a top 5-10 QB.

His path from “I’m seeing ghosts” to this might be the single greatest improvement by a QB … ever? I can’t think of another example. The only one which kindof comes to mind is Brees. He wasn’t hot early with the charger to the point they drafted his replacement in Rivers. Then he has an amazing year with the Chargers, hits FA, goes to the saints and the rest is history.

I can’t remember any other QBs who were as bad as Darnold was turning it around to become as good as he is now.

Coming from one of the biggest critics for Darnold in his younger years, I watched 6 or so if he college games closely and then a few of his pro games with the Jets back when he was on the trade market -- his vision-decision making was atrocious. Kevin O'Connell seemed to turn that around.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Yeah VOR, the Seattle coaching staff has done a damn good job with Darnold. KOC worked wonders with him, too. I suspect he finally got solid coaching and development after hitting SF, MN and Seattle. I'm happy for him. Imagine if he actually wins a SB. That's something hard to imagine 5, 6 years ago.

As for DQ, poor decisions often have a way of coming back to bite. Here's hoping we're on much better footing moving forward.

It started in 2023, when he was in SF with Shanahan and company. Then he went to Minnesota with O'Connell. I think that's where the turnaround happened. Started in SF, and then got much better in Minny, and I think Seattle has been the benefit. The Vikings really should have kept Darnold. So far, I was pretty right about the 2024 QB class. I thought Williams, Daniels and Maye were all studs, and you couldn't go wrong with any of them. I personally preferred Maye, but Daniels answered the questions about his ability last year. I never saw what the fascination with McCarthy was. I thought he was slow to process, not as good an arm, just generally "blah" when it came to actual on the field stuff. I think the Vikings are going to really regret both picking him and letting Darnold go. Darnold always had the higher upside.

I also wasn't super duper high on Penix. I liked him, but nowhere near as much as the top 3. The fact the Falcons took him where they did after they had just signed Kirk to a massive deal was extremely bizarre. I was flabberghasted he went before Nix. I kindof expected McCarthy to go 4th.

Anyway, back to Quinn. I've said this before, by far the #1 reason for the 2025 season was injuries. Almost no team can survive the level of injuries we had, even if they have tremendous depth. We lost all our DEs, starting CBs, starting safety, starting WRs, starting RB, and starting QB for huge swaths of the season. There comes a point where you just can't do anything about that. I think Payne also missed a few games, one because his dumb ass was suspended and another due to a back issue? I might be making up the back issue.

Anyway, peak Joe Gibbs would have been hard pressed to turn that water into wine. Though he probably could have done better, it wouldn't have been good. Maybe more competitive losses rather than getting blown out. Maybe squeak an upset win or two. But with all the injuries, the ceiling was probably, with a miracle coaching job, 8 wins, and more likely 6 or 7.

The game which really got away was the Bears game, where Daniels fumbled when we had the game won, if memory serves. It would have been nice to win that game. It was still early enough in the season, the tank wasn't on yet.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Coming from one of the biggest critics for Darnold in his younger years, I watched 6 or so if he college games closely and then a few of his pro games with the Jets back when he was on the trade market -- his vision-decision making was atrocious. Kevin O'Connell seemed to turn that around.

You were a critic of Darnold? I don't remember that. I guess you kept that opinion to yourself.

I think it started with Kyle when he was in SF for a year. Kyle and KOC are pretty good at working with QBs. And I rather doubt the Vikings would have signed him if KOC hadn't gotten some type of assurance from Kyle that Darnold was making progress.

 

[skinsinparadise]

I also wasn't super duper high on Penix. I liked him, but nowhere near as much as the top 3. The fact the Falcons took him where they did after they had just signed Kirk to a massive deal was extremely bizarre. I was flabberghasted he went before Nix. I kindof expected McCarthy to go 4th.
Anyway, back to Quinn. I've said this before, by far the #1 reason for the 2025 season was injuries. Almost no team can survive the level of injuries we had, even if they have tremendous depth. We lost all our DEs, starting CBs, starting safety, starting WRs, starting RB, and starting QB for huge swaths of the season. There comes a point where you just can't do anything about that. I think Payne also missed a few games, one because his dumb ass was suspended and another due to a back issue? I might be making up the back issue.

Anyway, peak Joe Gibbs would have been hard pressed to turn that water into wine. Though he probably could have done better, it wouldn't have been good. Maybe more competitive losses rather than getting blown out. Maybe squeak an upset win or two. But with all the injuries, the ceiling was probably, with a miracle coaching job, 8 wins, and more likely 6 or 7.

The game which really got away was the Bears game, where Daniels fumbled when we had the game won, if memory serves. It would have been nice to win that game. It was still early enough in the season, the tank wasn't on yet.

To me injuries were like 75% of the problem but Quinn didn't do himself any favors in the process. As you pointed out, I presume echoing Al Galdi because its been his mantra, pull off some upset at least once. And he couldn't. I think camp felt like one long walk through to ensure the team is rested for the playoff run.

They were according to Pats beat guys, getting destroyed by the Pats in the practice scrimmage then got destroyed in the preseason game. The whole preseason-summer came off like a lackluster, uninspired effort. And for those who covered that camp, who also covered Jay, they basically depicted that camp as the easiest they've seen -- easier than camp Jay.

Quinn said he learned hundreds of things as to what to do differently from 2025. That's good. Also Keim said privately Quinn isn't excusing the season to injuries, he knows they made mistakes. Good, too.

Now, lets see what he does with this? Heck even the injury issue is worth exploring. The Packers said they play their guys in the preseason because of studies they've seen that if you don't, you are more vulnerable to early season injuries.

I know Quinn isn't the only coach who treats the preseason and camp like a joke. But for a team with so many new moving parts who needed to adjust to the scheme, new teammates, etc, maybe he shouldn't have?"

 

[skinsinparadise]

You were a critic of Darnold? I don't remember that. I guess you kept that opinion to yourself.

I think it started with Kyle when he was in SF for a year. Kyle and KOC are pretty good at working with QBs. And I rather doubt the Vikings would have signed him if KOC hadn't gotten some type of assurance from Kyle that Darnold was making progress.

Him and Rosen lol, I am sure you recall I beat up. Some forgot about Rosen but I was just as harsh but he dissapeared so it became irrelevant and Darnold stuck around.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Him and Rosen lol, I am sure you recall I beat up. Some forgot about Rosen but I was just as harsh but he dissapeared so it became irrelevant and Darnold stuck around.

I sortof have blocked Rosen from my memory. Like, entirely. But I remember you were not a fan.