The HC Dan Quinn Discussion Thread

[Discobob]

Agreed that AP deserves a good amount of blame from last years results. I haven't heard him really say he deserves the blame but he has said he has learned from last years experience.

I'm not here to defend the specific decisions that he's made, but I think folks around here are unrealistic when it comes to personnel decisions.

I just don't think people are viewing APs decisions within the historical context of how often GM decisions on players in the draft and FA pay off. It's true that he didn't turn around our dumpster fire of a roster in 2 years... in a world of infinite possibilities, there is probably a version of some GM that would have stumbled into all the right decisions when viewed in hindsight, but that would have required a high degree of luck.

To quote Kirk Cousins, "I'm a little more process oriented." What gives me confidence in AP is that his processing and decision making seem sound and disciplined. Going forward, I want to see self-reflection and the willingness to learn from past mistakes. Given those, I'm satisfied with keeping him for an extended time.... I have no interest in going back to the schizo-Snyder way of doing business.

 

[BayouBrave86]

If Bitonio doesn't tip the pass and we beat the Broncos; if we don't fumble and we go on to beat the Bears; if Mariota doesn't throw that bat-shit interception against the Dolphins and we win that one, do these changes alter how we perceive Quinn? If those three plays go another way, we're looking at 8-9 after one of the worst injured season I can remember.

-We can sit and say he has to go X-X, or Y-Y to keep his job. OK, but not all 9-8s are created equal. If Jayden is JAYDEN again and we win 9, but the defense sucks hot ass, is that better or worse than going 8-9, 7-10, everyone dies again, but Quinn keeps it together, defense improves, and we play hard, have fun, and make some friends along the way?

Obviously, if we win 4 games next year, regardless of context, Quinn is probably gone--most coaches in this league are likely gone after winning 9 games in 2 years. But I think a lot can go into the discussion than just a hard-and-fast, pre-determined record he has to meet.

You have to be on the team's payroll. Constantly sunshine pumping. Let me remind you that there was a month long stretch where this team couldn't even keep a game within 20 points. This in a season where the parity was maybe at it's all time high in the league with no true dominant team. We absolutely got embarrassed for a month straight after the loss to the Bears. FOUR straight losses of at least 20 points in the most critical part of the season. That is a major failure on the coaching staff not having this team ready to go. They went onto lose 2 more after that with the inspired effort against the Broncos being an anomaly because this team got absolutelty wrecked the following week by the hapless Vikings and rushing out a banged up Jayden.

It's really hard to get embarrassed two weeks in a row in the NFL, let alone 4. Four straight 20 point losses, that's just insanity.

Meanwhile, look at the Texans and their November stretch with their backup at QB going 3-1 against Denver, Buffalo, Jacksonville, and Tenn.

I went back and looked at Sean Payton's first year and after they were a national embarrassment coming off the 70-20 loss to the Dolphins, they responded with a road win at Chicago. He weeded out the losers on his team in that first season and now look at them.

 

[Riggo44]

Constantly sunshine pumping.

You know, there's a reason I never respond to you.

 

[skinsinparadise]

I think my biggest hang up for this season is that the team went into this past off season and didn't make any big splashes, outside of Tunsil and DeeBo. This is probably more a problem with how AP handled the free agency period last year, but if I'm DQ I am knocking down APs door begging him for weapons.

Going into the 2025 season we had one of the oldest rosters in the NFL, and yet AP didn't spend some of that cap money the team had. Again an AP problem but DQ as the HC must make noise that we can't go quietly into 2025 without getting some serious talent.

I don't know maybe I'm way off base (wouldn't be the first time), but our failings this year are due to weak performance by AP in free agency, and injuries.

Fingers crossed that this year we get some talent on both sides of the ball, and some depth. I don't want to see the peanut vendor as our number 3 receiver in 2026.

Agree, but don't know if Harris put the breaks on the spending. If he did, I'd be surprised if they do it again. They had a ton of cap room but spent like they were on a budget. 15th most spending in FA last year. NE went nuts in spending and might win a SB for it.

 

[BayouBrave86]

You know, there's a reason I never respond to you

You come off like a former Mod at Extremeskins. I'm great with us ignoring each other's posts going forward.

 

[mcdonaldrw]

Agree, but don't know if Harris put the breaks on the spending. If he did, I'd be surprised if they do it again. They had a ton of cap room but spent like they were on a budget. 15th most spending in FA last year. NE went nuts in spending and might win a SB for it.

Oh I agree that Harris may have been the one keeping things in check, but if so AP and DQ need to sit on him and steal that check book if they want to right this ship. Hmmm maybe they can bring Haynesworth back to do the sitting.

 

[skinsinparadise]

I think my biggest hang up for this season is that the team went into this past off season and didn't make any big splashes, outside of Tunsil and DeeBo. This is probably more a problem with how AP handled the free agency period last year, but if I'm DQ I am knocking down APs door begging him for weapons.

Going into the 2025 season we had one of the oldest rosters in the NFL, and yet AP didn't spend some of that cap money the team had. Again an AP problem but DQ as the HC must make noise that we can't go quietly into 2025 without getting some serious talent.

I don't know maybe I'm way off base (wouldn't be the first time), but our failings this year are due to weak performance by AP in free agency, and injuries.

Fingers crossed that this year we get some talent on both sides of the ball, and some depth. I don't want to see the peanut vendor as our number 3 receiver in 2026.

As I've hit many times they did an absurdly bad job at WR and edge in particular. And then lol, you compound that with the injuries at that point they arguably had the worst talent in the NFL.

But I am guessing Peters learned his lesson. He started with edge when he was asked about needs in his most recent press conferences and when grilled by Standig about WR he said in his answer there are lessons learned from it.

 

[skinsinparadise]

Oh I agree that Harris may have been the one keeping things in check, but if so AP and DQ need to sit on him and steal that check book if they want to right this ship. Hmmm maybe they can bring Haynesworth back to do the sitting.

I can see the logic if so. They were close in 2024 so they don't need to go crazy for 2025 and lets use that capital for the facilities, current stadium, future stadium, etc. But it backfired. And I don't think Harris is dumb so I doubt he doubles down on this in 2026.

If it was purely Peters on his own, it was odd.

But I'll give them a pass. Let's see what they do and what happens in 2026.

 

[Riggo44]

49 days until we start to have some answers

 

[CapsCommies]

9-8 versus 8-9 with the 9-8 being a playoff season in your scenario. Making the playoffs gives them a shot to go to the big dance. Having a losing record albiet close to barely having a winning record and having no shot at a SB -- that to me is a big difference.

I am not one of the people here who think this is a legit 5-12 team so lets look at this as rebuild. I do think Quinn did a piss poor job last year but injuries was the main plot line. I think this team without injuries would have been in the 8-9, 9-8 season range IMO.

So with them poised supposedly to spend 100 million in cap space and all they do lets say is tread water -- it would likely mean another piss poor job from Quinn.

And again I've defended Quinn here to some who want him gone now. I believe because of the injuries this past season and success of the prior one he deserves a 2nd chance.

But if Daniels is Daniels of 2024, and they go all hands on deck to fix the roster yet it makes basically no impact -- and your point maybe the no impact happens because Quinn makes a poor choice for coordinators as to hitting the ground running in 2026 where the team's poor coaching contribute to the team underperforming. But the sneaky part of the underperforming the talent in 2026 is that we've seen glimpses that the step back might translate to a big step forward in 2027 because watch out for Quinn's hires strutting their stuff with more experience under their belt in 2027.

That would make me gag. To me it would be as nauseating as the narrative around Rivera in year 4. But that's me.

I get your point is even if I feel this way, play out the movie because Quinn in year 4 would bring continuity that a new HC couldn't match in year 4 of Jayden's rookie contract. Maybe so, maybe not. Vrabel might win a SB with NE in year 1.

Remember, this conversation started off about ownership signaling patience to coaching talent around the league. Look at some comps.

• Matt LaFleur made the NFC championship game his first two years with Rodgers playing at a League MVP level, then lost in the divisional round the next few years, then lost in the WC round the next few years. 7 years with a consistent downward trend and he just got signed to an extension
• Dan Campbell made the NFC championship game in his 3rd year, then lost to us in the divisional round the next year, and just missed the playoffs but no talk about his seat being warm
• Pegula in Buffalo is being criticized for firing McDermott who nevertheless had 9 years at the helm and couldn't beat Mahomes/Burrow
• DeMeco Ryans has lost in the divisional round 3 seasons in a row and not a peep about his seat being warm
• Shane Steichen has missed the playoffs 3 years in a row but he's still getting a 4th year
• Kevin O'Connell hasn't won a single playoff game in 4 years but apparently has strong job security
• Even Todd Bowles is getting Year 5 and he really doesn't have much to show for it

While it wouldn't be atypical to move on from a coach after three years, I think you want to err on the side of continuity and patience. At least if you want to attract the elite Tier 1 Head Coaching candidates in the future.

It's worth noting Quinn was likely not our first or second choice HC in 2024. And I don't think Josh Harris (or Adam Peters) wants to be in that position again.

 

[Riggo44]

I think you want to err on the side of continuity and patience.

Kyle Shanahan is the best example of patience by a front office. First four seasons: 6, 4, 13, 6. That second season, they had a PD of -93. Ours this year was -95. I am probably more on the side of patience because we went so many years of just irrational fire-everyone that I am subconsciously going the opposite route

 

[skinsinparadise]

Remember, this conversation started off about ownership signaling patience to coaching talent around the league. Look at some comps.

• Matt LaFleur made the NFC championship game his first two years with Rodgers playing at a League MVP level, then lost in the divisional round the next few years, then lost in the WC round the next few years. 7 years with a consistent downward trend and he just got signed to an extension
• Dan Campbell made the NFC championship game in his 3rd year, then lost to us in the divisional round the next year, and just missed the playoffs but no talk about his seat being warm
• Pegula in Buffalo is being criticized for firing McDermott who nevertheless had 9 years at the helm and couldn't beat Mahomes/Burrow
• DeMeco Ryans has lost in the divisional round 3 seasons in a row and not a peep about his seat being warm
• Shane Steichen has missed the playoffs 3 years in a row but he's still getting a 4th year
• Kevin O'Connell hasn't won a single playoff game in 4 years but apparently has strong job security
• Even Todd Bowles is getting Year 5 and he really doesn't have much to show for it

While it wouldn't be atypical to move on from a coach after three years, I think you want to err on the side of continuity and patience. At least if you want to attract the elite Tier 1 Head Coaching candidates in the future.

Remember, Quinn was likely not our first choice or second choice in 2024. And I don't think Josh Harris (or Adam Peters) wants to be in that position again.

All those cases help make my point ironically.

Yeah if Lefleur making the playoffs 6 out of 7 years -- isn't apples to apples to the idea of having 2 bad seasons out of 3.

Ditto Dan Campbell with 4 winning seasons in a row including winning 15 in one of them

Ditto McDermott who if I recall made the playoffs every year except one including with Tyrond Taylor

Ditto Ryans making it to the playoffs 3 seasons in a row.

O'Connell not as good as the others but made the playoffs three times without an elite QB and arguably revived Darnold's career

Bowles who if I recall made the playoffs 3 out of 4 seasons.

Steichen is your best case, 3 seasons of around 500. But he didn't have the QB.

It wouldn't be atypical to move on from a HC if he had 2 out of three bad seasons and all of your examples help make my point.

---

 

[skinsinparadise]

I think the keep Quinn here no matter what drill for at least two more seasons -- I think maybe at a minimum subconsciously you can't think much of Jayden considering the logic doesn't factor the idea that Washington has a franchise QB. So yeah if I am buying that premise, maybe Quinn deserves more time to find that elusive franchise QB.

If they were trying to make due with Jimmy G or Nick Mullens or Anthony Richardson, etc then heck I think we'd be asking too much from Quinn -- give him his 5 seasons and go find that QB.

This isn't an apples to apples to teams mired in QB wilderness looking for a QB. This is apples to apples to teams like the Bills, KC, Baltimore, etc. If you got a franchise QB you aren't supposed to suck two seasons in a row, you are supposed to be in the playoffs almost every season.

I personally think Jayden is the real deal. That puts pressure on Quinn to win. This isn't old school Redskins where we are hoping that Heinicke defies expectations. this is the new world, not the old one. As Todd McShay said last off season, Washington welcome to the Big Boys table finally.

But yeah if Jayden aint that dude Quinn deserves more time to find a QB who helps him win. But I don't subscribe to that thought.

 

[skinsinparadise]

Johnson is a jerk but I agree with him here, its the right mindset. His longer quote was the first 20 pounds you take off is the easiest, its the next 20 that's especially hard. I was watching an ESPN panel talk about how the Bears need to learn from the Commanders failure this past season -- you can't coast into the next season, you got to pretend the success never happened. This team actually seems to be an example to avoid as to complacency.

 

[DWinzit]

Johnson is a jerk but I agree with him here, its the right mindset. His longer quote was the first 20 pounds you take off is the easiest, its the next 20 that's especially hard. I was watching an ESPN panel talk about how the Bears need to learn from the Commanders failure this past season -- you can't coast into the next season, you got to pretend the success never happened. This team actually seems to be an example to avoid as to complacency.

Wow. If only Washington had gone a it from that perspective last off season

 

[DWinzit]

You come off like a former Mod at Extremeskins. I'm great with us ignoring each other's posts going forward.

Ah, back to one big happy family!

 

[burgold]

I think the flaw in Peters free agent strategy is that he really does believe in the draft so he keeps trying to get placeholder guys that his draft picks can supplant. There's not significant problem with this strategy except that if you trade away too many of your picks then all you have left are the placeholders.

Not quite sure how to steer this post into one about Dan Quinn, but I'm guessing Dan Quinn didn't oppose Peters strategy. He probably thought, "Really great players never hit free agency so it's okay if we trade for them" then shore up the roster with blue collar guys who know what they're doing and draft those high RAS guys and I'll coach 'em up into champions.

 

[CapsCommies]

I think the keep Quinn here no matter what drill for at least two more seasons -- I think maybe at a minimum subconsciously you can't think much of Jayden considering the logic doesn't factor the idea that Washington has a franchise QB. So yeah if I am buying that premise, maybe Quinn deserves more time to find that elusive franchise QB.

I have not seen anyone say to keep Quinn here for two more seasons no matter what. I have repeatedly explicitly stated that a similar 5-12 season would be grounds for dismissal. So if this statement is referring to me, I would appreciate you not to inaccurately characterize my position this way.

 

[skinsinparadise]

I have not seen anyone say to keep Quinn here for two more seasons no matter what. I have repeatedly explicitly stated that a similar 5-12 season would be grounds for dismissal. So if this statement is referring to me, I would appreciate you not to inaccurately characterize my position this way.

OK to clarify if I recall 8-9 he deserves to return? What's the worst he can do?

My point pertains to a losing season-non play off season. Teams with franchise QBs, rarely miss the playoffs let alone do it twice in a row. If they go 8-9 not only would I want Quinn gone but to me its slam dunk no brainer. And this is coming from someone who overall likes Quinn and defended him here hard for those who pushed for him to go now.

 

[BayouBrave86]

Johnson is a jerk but I agree with him here, its the right mindset. His longer quote was the first 20 pounds you take off is the easiest, its the next 20 that's especially hard. I was watching an ESPN panel talk about how the Bears need to learn from the Commanders failure this past season -- you can't coast into the next season, you got to pretend the success never happened. This team actually seems to be an example to avoid as to complacency.

Man what a BOSS. Absolutely love that mindset. Ben Johnson and Mike Macdonald both are. We struck out on both too sadly.