The HC Dan Quinn Discussion Thread

[skinsinparadise]

I differ from some on the board here in this, but not sure how much I differ from AP/org/DQ based on what has transpired:

1) I agree that in 2024 Jayden did a lot of Superman to get us to the NFCCG.
2) I think the offseason had a lot of issues, but I don't think upgrading the OL was a bad call at all.
3) Here is where things get interesting. I think the emphasis on all of those fixes - the inherent VALUE - was not maximized by Kliff and Bobby. That simple truth, that we had investment in an area that was under-utilized... could be what made them expendable in the end. That may be direct or indirect, but in the end - it's like, we had health in a couple of units but those units weren't leaned on enough.

Yes there is work to do (obviously), but some schematic changes may decrease the look of that work. A gamble because it hasn't been tried, but it kind of fits with a lot of what we are seeing.

I've defended Peters to some of the haters. I've slammed him, too. Like with Quinn I am mixed as to the job he's done here. I am more negative on Peters than Quinn but I have more faith that he bounces back between the two of them. If I am forced to put money on it, I'd bet on both of them bouncing back next season. I think Peters is much more responsible than Quinn for what went south this season. But I've made some of these points to death so this is the cliff notes for me without backing points with explanations that I've provided a zillion times in the past.

Peters (the good)

A. FA 2024 was very good.
B. I am still a Jayden guy so I still like that pick albiet I slightly prefered Maye before the draft. But regardless, he IMO drafted a franchise QB.
C. Draft 2025 is good, not great, but looking good
D. I've complemented him many times for rebuilding the O line, nice job on that front and its part of why am optimistic about 2026
E. I like the Deebo, Dotson and Tunsil trades

Peters (the bad)
A. I gave him a pass for the Lattimore deal because I get the mindset behind it but no pass for doubling down and bringing him back when they could have cut him for nothing. Part of Roseman's prowess is he's willing to cut his losses versus doubling down on mistakes.
B. 2024 draft is looking meh thus far. Not terrible. So so. But so so with all those picks is damning
C. Roseman totally got the better end of the 2024 draft trade and it stings considering Dejean is special and Peters aside from Jayden hasn't drafted anyone special
D. While the 2024 rookie QB teams loaded their young QBs with weapons, Peters did the reverse, weakened his weapons at best you can say he didn't prioritize it.
E. With all the cap room in the world, spent the 15th most in FA. No urgency with a QB under a rookie contract.
F. The D line was their key weakness in 2024 season, yet did basically nothing but try to tread water versus giving that unit a massive upgrade
G. A bit ironic and comical that his contract fight with Terry was at an impass in part because he was turning 30 and the durability of WRs at that age is often poor and that's part of the reason they don't get paid the same versus younger WRs. Yet much of the season's success he hedged on the opposite happening for this team and bet against the odds and failed miserably. He had Terry at X and another 30 year old at Z who can never stay healthy. And had no net behind them in case of injury. Even Deebo was pushing 30. So he was banking on the Grumpy Old Men strategy at Wr and somehow we are supposed to be shocked they got hurt and it backfired?

 

[Riggo44]

A side note, but this is what I was looking for:

"Mara said, via SNY, that Harbaugh is “the most important cog” in the decision-making process, but added that “final say” will be a collaborative process involving Harbaugh, Schoen and ownership."

According to Giants Male Cheerleader/Beat Reporter Ian O'Connor, the hold up in Harbaugh's contract was over a power struggle, regarding this issue. This makes me feel so good about our reporting structure, which is finally normal after years of crap like this.

 

[RexTomb]

A side note, but this is what I was looking for:

"Mara said, via SNY, that Harbaugh is “the most important cog” in the decision-making process, but added that “final say” will be a collaborative process involving Harbaugh, Schoen and ownership."

According to Giants Male Cheerleader/Beat Reporter Ian O'Connor, the hold up in Harbaugh's contract was over a power struggle, regarding this issue. This makes me feel so good about our reporting structure, which is finally normal after years of crap like this.

Does Harbaugh last more than 3 years - inquiring minds must know. Does Vegas have odds on things like that?

 

[skinsinparadise]

Does Harbaugh last more than 3 years - inquiring minds must know. Does Vegas have odds on things like that?

That one is going to be interesting. The amount of hype from the NY media is insane -- they feel like they just signed the best HC in NFL history and some in the national media are semi playing along with that narrative. And while i think their roster is underrated and better then Washington's roster -- the local and national media are again getting carried away about it. it's like the first 4-13 team that I can recall with SB level hype for the next season. My point is with those level expectations, it will be very easy to disappoint.

 

[Conn]

Interesting data point, as Quinn came away with the opposite lesson learned

 

[Riggo44]

There's a couple of reasons I am skeptical:
1. John Mara is an awful, meddlesome owner, who has the 4th worst winning percentage in the NFL since Coughlin retired. He has hired coaches and GMs, winning more than 9 games once, producing 11 losing seasons. If his last name wasn't Mara, he would be considered one of the worst owners in the league.
2. We've seen this kind of structure before, and more times than not, it fails. Only Andy Reid has succeeded (off the top of my head--Bellichick doesn't count because he never won anything without Brady)
3. He is bringing in all his old coaches--Todd Monken, Anthony Weaver from Miami is supposed to be the DC. It reeks of the same arrogance Rivera came here with: "everything I did was fine, no need to change anything!" Now, just to clarify, Harbaugh is not Rivera, he's far better, far more accomplished, but the mindset appears similar. Monken wouldn't use Henry, and he's going to make Skattebo a success?
4. The Ravens are a smart, well-run organization. The Giants are kind of a joke. I go back to when we hired Bieniemy--there was a similar hype and excitement. All I could think was "Since when are we smarter than the rest of the league?" Bieniemy got passed over time and time again, he was available for an OC position--and no one wanted him. The Giants are the only ones stepping up and giving Harbaugh the world. Since when are they smarter than the league?

Harbaugh will probably improve that team--it's hard not to. But to what extent? As for their roster, I am beginning to believe skinsinparadise has been brainwashed by his Giants fans relatives and is now a double agent, here to sow seeds of discord and fear...

 

[DWinzit]

Interesting data point, as Quinn came away with the opposite lesson learned

Yes, very weird that DQ not only didn't want to call the defensive plays, he didn't want to be a part of the D at all. THe offensive side as well for that matter which resembles Tugboat

 

[Riggo44]

Yes, very weird that DQ not only didn't want to call the defensive plays, he didn't want to be a part of the D at all. THe offensive side as well for that matter which resembles Tugboat

Well, Saleh willingly chose to coach the Jets AND the Titans. He is not getting another shot. I see doing the opposite of someone who makes these kinds of decisions as a good thing.

 

[Riggo44]

"John Harbaugh is banging my wife, and I am okay with it."

 

[DWinzit]

Well, Saleh willingly chose to coach the Jets AND the Titans. He is not getting another shot. I see doing the opposite of someone who makes these kinds of decisions as a good thing.

That's my point, it makes sense but DQ is not doing that. If this fails it will be his second fail as well and may very well not get another shot

 

[Boone]

Great discussion on Mara and Harbaugh. Unfortunately - it's off topic and has nothing to do with Dan Quinn.

 

[Dlts20]

Interesting data point, as Quinn came away with the opposite lesson learned

And this is what upset me. If we are great on defense then fine but we hire a defensive hc who is hands off while we stay hovering around last place on defense. It's annoying. Imagine someone hiring Kliff and he decides to just be a team overseer while they have a last placed offense every year. People would be in a uproar.

The crazy thing is that if he gets fired then he will immediately go somewhere else to be a full time DC, hoping that it leads him to be a HC again. That's what Saleh realized in SF. This is what I do and will bring us the closest to winning a SB. DQ right now is far more qualified then anyone we can choose outside of Flores and McDermott but he'd rather be hands off... Smh

 

[skinzplay]

Basically means DQ is on the hotseat going into this year



What’s interesting is it took DQ 3 years to land a HC gig again despite a Super Bowl appearance as a HC. He obviously has a lot of friends in NFL media like Glazer and others but skinzplay always points out his real reputation in the league is worse than what NFL media would like for you to believe

I really like DQ and I want him to succeed with us. It'd help his legacy to be known for something other than 28-3/34-28, and I definitely want that for him. Seems a genuinely good dude, and the players respect him. Here's hoping he has indeed learned the lessons he mentioned and can get this thing back on track.

It's interesting what Saleh said about calling the D himself. Glad he got a second shot. Suffering through the Jets automatically warrants another chance. Glad Todd got another go in Tampa. Hopefully Saleh will build something in Tennessee (but of course stall against us next season).

 

[Bulldog]

The owners of the Jets and Titans mitigate against those organizations being able to move forward.

Adams doesn't want to spend any real money and as we have seen over time the Jets can draft quarterbacks for other teams benefit but not their own.

 

[skinsinparadise]

There's a couple of reasons I am skeptical:
1. John Mara is an awful, meddlesome owner, who has the 4th worst winning percentage in the NFL since Coughlin retired. He has hired coaches and GMs, winning more than 9 games once, producing 11 losing seasons. If his last name wasn't Mara, he would be considered one of the worst owners in the league.
2. We've seen this kind of structure before, and more times than not, it fails. Only Andy Reid has succeeded (off the top of my head--Bellichick doesn't count because he never won anything without Brady)
3. He is bringing in all his old coaches--Todd Monken, Anthony Weaver from Miami is supposed to be the DC. It reeks of the same arrogance Rivera came here with: "everything I did was fine, no need to change anything!" Now, just to clarify, Harbaugh is not Rivera, he's far better, far more accomplished, but the mindset appears similar. Monken wouldn't use Henry, and he's going to make Skattebo a success?
4. The Ravens are a smart, well-run organization. The Giants are kind of a joke. I go back to when we hired Bieniemy--there was a similar hype and excitement. All I could think was "Since when are we smarter than the rest of the league?" Bieniemy got passed over time and time again, he was available for an OC position--and no one wanted him. The Giants are the only ones stepping up and giving Harbaugh the world. Since when are they smarter than the league?

Harbaugh will probably improve that team--it's hard not to. But to what extent? As for their roster, I am beginning to believe skinsinparadise has been brainwashed by his Giants fans relatives and is now a double agent, here to sow seeds of discord and fear...

lol, I have to admit the Giants are a mystery to me, they can't win even though they got some pieces. And I think their roster is easily better than Washington but the difference is Jayden >>> Dart.

As to their roster, they got the better D line and by a mile. LBs at worst is a wash. CB they are better though neither is good. S at worst a wash although neither is good. O line I like ours better but PFF likes theirs better -- theirs have gotten a lot better and if they take the RT from Miami theirs is better. They have the better WRs and RBs.

But Dart is erratic. And they got bad coaching.

 

[burgold]

You almost got me going down the off topic rabbit hole again, SIP.

This Giants discussion probably belongs more in the Black Monday thread or in an NFC East opponents thread.

 

[Riggo44]

They have the better WRs

I would absolutely take Wandale Robinson, especially if we get an outside receiver

 

[CapsCommies]

IMO the reasons why Quinn doesn't deserve another chance if the 2026 is bad or even mediocre

1. Firing both coordinators has Quinn owning up to blowing his two most important hires

2. If this coming season goes south chances are his new coordinators weren't good -- so are we going to forgive those same mistakes twice?

3. He's been giving a template based on his own admission as to what not to do, and what to do differently. So if he fails regardless again, that's telling

4. You have an elite QB (if Jayden plays back to 2024 form) and you don't have the time to fart around and squander this shrinking window

5. If the team isn't good again I suspect the defense is a big part of it. He's had then 3 years as a defensive guru to fix the defense and failed anyway. That's damning.

6. IMO part of why Quinn failed in 2025 is a combination of arrogance and lack of urgency. He couldn't have been given a better fire up his butt than what happened this past season. if that doesn't drive him to excellence, I just have too many doubts that more time would do it.

You list these reasons as to why Quinn should be fired if 2026 is "bad or even mediocre" but to me, they only apply if the season is bad.

My position is that if the season is mediocre - which I define as say 8-9 and barely missing out on a WC spot - but the coordinators show growth and promise and especially if the team finishes stronger than they start, then Quinn should and will be kept on for 2027.

At that point, making a change would be starting from scratch again which equally risks squandering Jayden's rookie deal window and now you'd be asking him to learn 3 offenses in 4 years. That's going to hinder his development no matter what.

I just think it doesn't make sense to keep a guy and let him completely rebuild his coaching staff and then not have a little patience if things are improving. Another 5-12 (or worse) showing? Yes, absolutely. Make a change. But 8-9 with clear improvement? Give the coach another year to see it through. I really think coaches around the league will pay attention to that.

 

[method man]

You list these reasons as to why Quinn should be fired if 2026 is "bad or even mediocre" but to me, they only apply if the season is bad.

My position is that if the season is mediocre - which I define as say 8-9 and barely missing out on a WC spot - but the coordinators show growth and promise and especially if the team finishes stronger than they start, then Quinn should and will be kept on for 2027.

At that point, making a change would be starting from scratch again which equally risks squandering Jayden's rookie deal window and now you'd be asking him to learn 3 offenses in 4 years. That's going to hinder his development no matter what.

I just think it doesn't make sense to keep a guy and let him completely rebuild his coaching staff and then not have a little patience if things are improving. Another 5-12 (or worse) showing? Yes, absolutely. Make a change. But 8-9 with clear improvement? Give the coach another year to see it through. I really think coaches around the league will pay attention to that.

Ultimately the reason you give DQ 2026 is because you had 2024. However, if I'm ownership, I have major question marks about why they chose a 30 year old with 2 years of coaching experience and 5 games of coaching experience as a full time position coach as OC. As an owner, that makes me concerned with the strategic thinking and puts more onus on Quinn to deliver next year.

 

[CapsCommies]

Ultimately the reason you give DQ 2026 is because you had 2024. However, if I'm ownership, I have major question marks about why they chose a 30 year old with 2 years of coaching experience and 5 games of coaching experience as a full time position coach as OC. As an owner, that makes me concerned with the strategic thinking and puts more onus on Quinn to deliver next year.

If you're not willing to give that inexperienced 30 year old at least two years in the seat if he shows promise in year 1, then you shouldn't approve the hire in the first place.

It often takes even established OCs two or even three years to really build their offense. Expecting instant high-level success from someone with such little experience does not make sense. If ownership's expectation was for 2026 to be an instant turnaround then they should not have approved Blough, they should have gone after McDaniel or Daboll or someone of that ilk.

The fact they let Quinn hire Blough shows to me they will have some patience.