The HC Dan Quinn Discussion Thread

[SkinsNumberOne]

Tunsil is a top 5 talent. And has been that good everywhere. The Texans O line is bad without him. Ranked near the bottom via PFF. But when you got an elite defense and a good QB with weapons you can apparently overcome a bad unit elsewhere.

I don't think Quinn is a bad coach. His defenses were top 10 on regular basis. He was worshipped after season 1. I posted the articles about how much players loved and responded to him. Whitt was a terrible coach IMO.

But it was a thin roster. After their injuries it was the worst team talent wise in the NFL. I think the Mariota to Chirs Moore version of the team with the skeleton screw at defense is the worst Washington team talent wise in my life time. I don't think they underacheived once the team was decimated. They didn't have a Kittle, Jennings, Pearsal, McCaffrey to throw the ball to, And again the 49ers when they got hit last year with injuries which included McCaffrey they fell apart. the 49ers defense this year was atrocious. But their offense can make up for it.

Very true on Tunsil and Texans OL.

I didn’t mean (and don’t think I said) Texans OL was good without him. But good coaching recognizes where and how they can make up the difference.

That lack- almost complete lack- of adaptation is definitely why our coordinators needed to be looked at in a post mortem. I just wonder about HC too, partly because I really don’t think our units improved enough in a coaching aspect.

The one thing is, while we all thought the 2024 D was bad or tough to watch- it WAS a hard eval. So, maybe it was tough even inside the room. The one I truly have a major issue with is Donatell.

 

[skinsinparadise]

I get everything you are saying but I am saying it is hard to divorce poor coaching’s effects here.

Did you watch last night’s game? People correctly lauding Texans D and those CBs were blanketing. Some good throws by Rodgers, right on the money, and the key to no PI was “simple” - be able to see the WR looking at the ball and turn your head around. They did it so well- it had to be coached up.

Meanwhile, our CBs? Frankly? It is almost never. It is almost like it is coached DOWN.

Quinn isn't all of a sudden a crap defensive mind. But yeah you tend to play off and or zone with poor CB play. Great CBs don't tend to need to be coached up as to tenchnique, its part of why they are great. Texans defense is loaded. Coached up well, too.

But when your talent sucks, its not easy to mask it. Quinn took over a bad Dallas defense and turned it around. This isn't like Manusky or Joe Berry, Quinn is regarded as one of the top defensive minds.

 

[skinsinparadise]

Very true on Tunsil and Texans OL.

I didn’t mean (and don’t think I said) Texans OL was good without him. But good coaching recognizes where and how they can make up the difference.

That lack- almost complete lack- of adaptation is definitely why our coordinators needed to be looked at in a post mortem. I just wonder about HC too, partly because I really don’t think our units improved enough in a coaching aspect.

The one thing is, while we all thought the 2024 D was bad or tough to watch- it WAS a hard eval. So, maybe it was tough even inside the room. The one I truly have a major issue with is Donatell.

I didn't think the 2024 defense was hard to discipher. I thought it sucked in spite of their pedestrian stats. They were masked because the offense controlled possession. And the miracle finishes were often about late 4th quarter collapses from the defense. But Jayden's heriocs overrode the narratives about the defenses.

I can recall like yesterday the national media talking about how this team gets that beefing up their weak D line as their code red off season need and I recall one report saying expect them to sign BOTH Milton Williams and Josh Sweat. They ended up doing very little and mostly doubled down on the same unit they had in 2024.

And lol, you take that same unit without the benefit of time of possession. Stick them on the field a lot. Then have them lose key players. They are done. Yeah Whitt was part of the problem. But the team is really bad. I recall Keim saying on a podcast that a coordinator from another team told him this was the worst defense talent wise they faced this season.

Inside Washington Commanders' high-stakes reset in 2026

Parting ways with Kliff Kingsbury was a bold move that raised the stakes for Dan Quinn & Co. this offseason.

www.espn.com

On defense, they have questions. One offensive assistant, whose team faced Washington in the second half of the season, said the only two players who truly caused concern were tackles Daron Payne and Javon Kinlaw.

 

[SkinsNumberOne]

Quinn isn't all of a sudden a crap defensive mind. But yeah you tend to play off and or zone with poor CB play. Great CBs don't tend to need to be coached up as to tenchnique, its part of why they are great. Texans defense is loaded. Coached up well, too.

But when your talent sucks, its not easy to mask it. Quinn took over a bad Dallas defense and turned it around. This isn't like Manusky or Joe Berry, Quinn is regarded as one of the top defensive minds.

View attachment 13931

I’m with you on this possibility but are you with me on this:
- unit wide DPI is potentially a coaching issue? Unit wide.
- we were better this year for sure but I attributed that more to getting burned more frankly; not sure

These PFF scores- my point is smart players like to go to well coached teams so these numbers look higher. On a poorly coached team they look lower. They are measured performance not measured talent because talent can’t be inherently measured. We measure performance and good coaching makes the unit perform better.

I can get behind what you said about DQ coaching history. He had some good years in Dallas as DC. I don’t think his current way of thinking has him as DC here but if he was I may be less concerned.

I know the Comms have serious talent deficiencies, 100%. Let’s hope they get the coaching right this offseason first. I am saying, it’s a super hard eval on players with a lot of bad coaching present. It is like, if they play well they are awesome and play poorly they are ??? I feel like our CBs were very poorly coached.

 

[SkinsNumberOne]

I didn't think the 2024 defense was hard to discipher. I thought it sucked in spite of their pedestrian stats. They were masked because the offense controlled possession. And the miracle finishes were often about late 4th quarter collapses from the defense. But Jayden's heriocs overrode the narratives about the defenses.

I can recall like yesterday the national media talking about how this team gets that beefing up their weak D line as their code red off season need and I recall one report saying expect them to sign BOTH Milton Williams and Josh Sweat. They ended up doing very little and mostly doubled down on the same unit they had in 2024.

And lol, you take that same unit without the benefit of time of possession. Stick them on the field a lot. Then have them lose key players. They are done. Yeah Whitt was part of the problem. But the team is really bad. I recall Keim saying on a podcast that a coordinator from another team told him this was the worst defense talent wise they faced this season.

Inside Washington Commanders' high-stakes reset in 2026

Parting ways with Kliff Kingsbury was a bold move that raised the stakes for Dan Quinn & Co. this offseason.

www.espn.com

On defense, they have questions. One offensive assistant, whose team faced Washington in the second half of the season, said the only two players who truly caused concern were tackles Daron Payne and Javon Kinlaw.

I love quotes like that, very telling.

I can get behind the idea that sainristil,BSJ,Forbes,Noah I
Are *better* thab
2025 Sainristil (took step back, had positional moves), Lattimore, Amos, Jones

I do think they thought it would be a big improvement. See when I look at it and think about it, I can see they lost critical speed with those changes. However, I feel what I saw was maybe demonstrably worse than we should have expected. Hard to say.

I am with you though, they almost need rebuild 2.0 now because last offseason was steps backwards in some areas (maybe CB in particular).

 

[skinsinparadise]

I’m with you on this possibility but are you with me on this:
- unit wide DPI is potentially a coaching issue? Unit wide.
- we were better this year for sure but I attributed that more to getting burned more frankly; not sure

These PFF scores- my point is smart players like to go to well coached teams so these numbers look higher. On a poorly coached team they look lower. They are measured performance not measured talent because talent can’t be inherently measured. We measure performance and good coaching makes the unit perform better.

I can get behind what you said about DQ coaching history. He had some good years in Dallas as DC. I don’t think his current way of thinking has him as DC here but if he was I may be less concerned.

I know the Comms have serious talent deficiencies, 100%. Let’s hope they get the coaching right this offseason first. I am saying, it’s a super hard eval on players with a lot of bad coaching present. It is like, if they play well they are awesome and play poorly they are ??? I feel like our CBs were very poorly coached.

I do agree from the context of Whitt. And made the case previously that hey maybe Lattimore doesn't suck for example, maybe that's bad coaching. I don't know.

I am confident that Quinn is a very good defensive coordinator. As to head coach? I don't know. I lean positive. But its all about this season.

Even though I am leveling Peters here, in his defense I got the logic of hey we were really good last year do we really have to go crazy this off season to get better? Let's protect Jayden first and foremost and let it ride on everything else mostly.

I think the "all in" narrative is 100% purely on the Lattimore trade in 2024 -- and on the front absolutely they were all in as to the trade deadline then. And because of the Tunsil trade. Look I agree they were "all in" on the offensive line. But nothing else. We watched the Bears and NE have great seasons and those teams were all in on multiple spots. They didn't just patch one hole on the Titanic, they went full out everywhere and it worked.

They sort of fixed the acne but decided to let it ride on being 30 pounds over weight, and they got a heart attack and it blew up in their face. the Bears for example fixed the acne and took off the weight. The good news for me is I sense Peters and Quinn get it, they understand the mishaps. That's a departure from past regimes. So I am giving them a chance to fix it. Will see.

I've posted this before from Standig interviewing agents

• “Give them credit for staying focused on rebuilding the roster, but why not be more aggressive with the QB on a rookie deal when you might already be the second-best NFC team? At the very least, they should have filled in some gaps or replaced a few older players. Instead, they have tons of 2026 free agents, meaning in your third year, you're still filling too many holes.”
• “Certainly, the team where a sophomore slump comes to mind.”

 

[Neophyte]

I can give an explanation for secondary on their behalf. It's sort of burgold's point at WR, which is well thought out, but I disagree with 100%.

But secondary, its hey we get rid of the bad CBs. Improve depth by adding Jones. Lattimore was once a stud, if he's healthy he will be a stud again. They add Amos. Move Sainristil back to his old position at slot and watch us kill. The problem was Lattimore sucked. And Sainristil sucked at slot.

And it was half backed, too because they did nothing at safety aside from swapping Chinn for a cheaper journeyman safety in Will Harris. And then Quan had a terrible year. If I had to think of what was the most embarassing of the team's summer comments witth the benfit of hindsight is ther safety spot -- hyping it's depth and being one of the team's strongest positions and that Quan Martin was an emerging star.

I think a lot of what we saw were issues with the scheme.

No, Lattimore wasn't great for much of the time. However, we ran a lot of zone. He has made a living in the NFL as a physical, press-man CB and we consistently put him in zone coverage. Go back and watch the first half of the KC game. Lattimore had a great half of football because we put in on the line, in the WRs face, and let him play press-man. Then look at the second half where, for some ridiculous reason that defies all logic, we reverted to zone and he got jobbed.

Honestly, I think Harris was more than a cheap journeyman. I think he was an upgrade on Chinn who was something of a liability in coverage. Granted, I may have some unresolved trauma there from watching Chinn get owned in every facit of the game by the Eagles in the NFC Championship.

Anyway, all that to say playcalling and scheme hurt this defense more than personnel, at least before Quinn took over from Whitt. Sadly, by that time, we were pulling guys off the street to fill roles because of injuries. I think if Quinn had been calling the D early on when everyone was healthy, this is a much better unit.

 

[Primus Porcus]

I think a lot of what we saw were issues with the scheme.

No, Lattimore wasn't great for much of the time. However, we ran a lot of zone. He has made a living in the NFL as a physical, press-man CB and we consistently put him in zone coverage. Go back and watch the first half of the KC game. Lattimore had a great half of football because we put in on the line, in the WRs face, and let him play press-man. Then look at the second half where, for some ridiculous reason that defies all logic, we reverted to zone and he got jobbed.

Honestly, I think Harris was more than a cheap journeyman. I think he was an upgrade on Chinn who was something of a liability in coverage. Granted, I may have some unresolved trauma there from watching Chinn get owned in every facit of the game by the Eagles in the NFC Championship.

Anyway, all that to say playcalling and scheme hurt this defense more than personnel, at least before Quinn took over from Whitt. Sadly, by that time, we were pulling guys off the street to fill roles because of injuries. I think if Quinn had been calling the D early on when everyone was healthy, this is a much better unit.

This can't be overstated. IMHO the schematic issues overshadowed any true evaluation of the player ability. If you're asking someone to be out of position, and they're out of position, how is that a reflection of their abilities? At some point yes, you can some deficiencies, but we have no idea what they were being asked to do... what we do know is that the 'issues' were the same no matter who was out there which lends me to lean a lot more to being a fatal flaw in the scheme and play calling over the players. It's not like any of those guys outside of maybe Amos at times, looked like they were 'better' than the guy they replaced, or were replaced by. Everyone was bad.

 

[SkinsNumberOne]

Some of the observables here are no-doubters. In our fog from our vantage point, I like to focus on those sometimes, narrowly.

One easy no doubter:
- DB miscommunications. This came up in pressers and was very visible. Lots of times there were serious lapses in communication. I think that is position coach and DC communication failing

This junk makes the players look worse and makes eval more difficult than it should be. It is why dropping two coordinators is so deflating even if needed. Still, forge on! Let’s hope we get it right this time.

 

[skinsinparadise]

I think a lot of what we saw were issues with the scheme.

No, Lattimore wasn't great for much of the time. However, we ran a lot of zone. He has made a living in the NFL as a physical, press-man CB and we consistently put him in zone coverage. Go back and watch the first half of the KC game. Lattimore had a great half of football because we put in on the line, in the WRs face, and let him play press-man. Then look at the second half where, for some ridiculous reason that defies all logic, we reverted to zone and he got jobbed.

Honestly, I think Harris was more than a cheap journeyman. I think he was an upgrade on Chinn who was something of a liability in coverage. Granted, I may have some unresolved trauma there from watching Chinn get owned in every facit of the game by the Eagles in the NFC Championship.

Anyway, all that to say playcalling and scheme hurt this defense more than personnel, at least before Quinn took over from Whitt. Sadly, by that time, we were pulling guys off the street to fill roles because of injuries. I think if Quinn had been calling the D early on when everyone was healthy, this is a much better unit.

In Dallas, Whitt-Quinn ran a lot of man press and wanted to do it in Washington too, but didn't have the horses, yet they tried. They ran the 6th most man in 2024. Lattimore seemed like the perfect fit, since he was a good man corner. He got destroyed covering top WRs one on one in the stretch in the 2024 season. they bet that it was a one off because he was hurt and brought him back for 2025.

They doubled down on using man at the beginning of the season, they were burned. Sainristil and Lattimore especially struggled with it. Lattimore cited how the opponents were abusing the man scheme via motion where Lattimore had to chase the WR in motion and was often a beat behind. Among other things. They shifted more to zone but especially did so once Lattimore was gone. And once they lost Lattimore and Amos they went almost exclusively to zone. But they played enough man early on that on the aggregate they played the 19th most man.

The gamble on Lattimore was it seems they felt he can still play man. But he didn't hold up. He seemed to lose a step. He ironically somewhat complained about the heavy man scheme and how teams were taking advantage of it.

As for Will Harris, he has never been in conversation as one of the better safeties in the league. He was had for about half the price as Chinn. He's ok. In Washington terms he's a rock star considering in a vaccum even average talent stands out with this team. But in real terms for NFL teams with good defenses, he's just a guy. If I recall it was method man who got into detail on this from the jump when he was signed.

 

[DWinzit]

As for Will Harris, he has never been in conversation as one of the better safeties in the league. He was had for about half the price as Chinn. He's ok. In Washington terms he's a rock star considering in a vaccum even average talent stands out with this team. But in real terms for NFL teams with good defenses, he's just a guy. If I recall it was method man who got into detail on this from the jump when he was signed.

How long have we lived in the abyss where our better to best players at positions wouldn't even start on so many other teams?

Such a void of not only elite talent but even a full roster of good players. Watching these playoff games, all of these teams have more talent than ours some being leap years over our roster.

We need high level and consistent coaching to mesh with AP and front office/scouting to build this team. These coordinators and new staff have got to be home runs. Whitt should have been removed last year.

 

[method man]

I don't think so as to WR. Sounded crappy to me and I said so before the season. The starting lineup sounded meh at best. But the depth was ridiculously bad. Comical. I've followed the team a long time of course, I've never seen worse depth. But to make it even more absurd is their starting Z WR, was over 30 and never had a healthy season in their career, and was hurt all off season to boot, and yet they decided to let it ride with no bet behind him as the starting Z WR. While I defended injuries as the prime reason for the team's collapse -- the WR spot is 100% on Peters. And I am not alone on this, several people who cover the team and generally like Peters echo my point.

Even Keim in a podcast said the knew from speaking to sources with the team they thought they needed another off season to complete the roster and knew they were especially thin at Wr and edge with no margin for error.

Deebo was a good trade, I recall you don't think so, but he's a gadget WR, he's gravy. Banking on a raw late 4th round Wr (I was very familiar with him I talked about him pre draft, he ran very basic routes in college, screens-hitches), who even the team told reporters they see him as a punt returner this coming season not so much WR, doesn't mean anything to me. Ditto the late third rounder McCaffrey who had an underwhelming rookie season.

But the kicker was Noah Brown as your Z. Even Standig who is actually ironically the king of don't spend resources at Wr narratives, couldn't even get this, and still doesn't and asked Peters about it at the end of the year press conference. Peters explained that they had designs on some WRs but they were out of their price range. And to quote him "they learned a lesson" on this.

When Chris Moore can't catch a ball to save his life yet kept getting starts at X with Terry out -- a reporter checked in with the team on this as to why they are sticking with Moore and the response he got is he's the only backup on the team that knows how to run the routes at X -- wow, pathetic. And that spot was as poorly put together that I can ever recall in my years following the team.

The good news is I gather the team gets their mistake and will fix it. But on the off chance they don't, I'll be pushing for Peters to be canned. You can't be the team that's the punchline again as to where a young QB doesn't want to go to -- and when you got Jayden's pal and Jayden's mom liking social media posts that goof on how little he had to work with at WR, you begin to flirt with that narrative. The teams young QBs go to die for decades have been the Bears, Washington, the Jets, Browns. The Bears are the team to escape that label. Washington seemed to escape it last year but IMO are smack now back into the TBD category on this.

You want a team that takes helping the young QB seriously, its basically every other team almost in the NFL but the Bears espeically make the comparison absurd. The Bears take it VERY seriously. This team does it half baked which is better than nothing but not nearly good enough.

What was sad is they had a golden ladder to fix their mistake at WR before the start of the season when Bourne fell into their laps but they passed on him because they thought he was too expensive. The Niners pounced instead.

Whether it was receiver, EDGE (not signing DeMarcus Lawrence), safety (Will Harris instead of all the other options) or other roles, AP went cheap and that came back to bite us.

He told us in the season ending press conference about his hesitancy to make commitments to FAs the staff or FO haven’t been around before. Not only is he going tk have to do that but he is also going to have to start handing out more 3 year deals with meaningful ACVs to sign the actual impact FAs. He is going to need a real mindset shift. As Mike Elias of the Orioles is showing, it’s possible a GM can evolve

 

[method man]

Tunsil is a top 5 talent. And has been that good everywhere. The Texans O line is bad without him. Ranked near the bottom via PFF. But when you got an elite defense and a good QB with weapons you can apparently overcome a bad unit elsewhere.

I don't think Quinn is a bad coach. His defenses were top 10 on a regular basis. He was worshipped after season 1. I posted the articles about how much players loved and responded to him. Whitt was a terrible coach IMO.

But it was a thin roster. After their injuries it was the worst team talent wise in the NFL. I think the Mariota to Chirs Moore version of the team with the skeleton crew at defense is the worst Washington team talent wise in my lifetime. I don't think they underacheived once the team was decimated. They didn't have a Kittle, Jennings, Pearsal, McCaffrey to throw the ball to, And again the 49ers when they got hit last year with injuries which included McCaffrey they fell apart. the 49ers defense this year was atrocious. But their offense can make up for it.

Ironically, I think they were deeper on defense. I think the issue, to your point, was Whitt and the overall lack of quality starting talent on this defense - on paper, in the division, the worst starting DTs, worst or 2nd worst crew of starting CBs, worst pair of starting EDGEs, worst or 2nd worst crew of starting safeties. Only position where they had a top 2 combo was off ball LB.

It’s simple. How many of those units can they get to top 2 in the division before the start of the season? DT will be hard given the lack of talent available in FA/draft but EDGE and safety are doable with CB doable if Amos takes a real step up and they bring in a very good starting nickel

 

[method man]

In Dallas, Whitt-Quinn ran a lot of man press and wanted to do it in Washington too, but didn't have the horses, yet they tried. They ran the 6th most man in 2024. Lattimore seemed like the perfect fit, since he was a good man corner. He got destroyed covering top WRs one on one in the stretch in the 2024 season. they bet that it was a one off because he was hurt and brought him back for 2025.

They doubled down on using man at the beginning of the season, they were burned. Sainristil and Lattimore especially struggled with it. Lattimore cited how the opponents were abusing the man scheme via motion where Lattimore had to chase the WR in motion and was often a beat behind. Among other things. They shifted more to zone but especially did so once Lattimore was gone. And once they lost Lattimore and Amos they went almost exclusively to zone. But they played enough man early on that on the aggregate they played the 19th most man.

The gamble on Lattimore was it seems they felt he can still play man. But he didn't hold up. He seemed to lose a step. He ironically somewhat complained about the heavy man scheme and how teams were taking advantage of it.

As for Will Harris, he has never been in conversation as one of the better safeties in the league. He was had for about half the price as Chinn. He's ok. In Washington terms he's a rock star considering in a vaccum even average talent stands out with this team. But in real terms for NFL teams with good defenses, he's just a guy. If I recall it was method man who got into detail on this from the jump when he was signed.

Yep. My beef with the Harris signing is he was a 3rd round bust for the Lions who wasn’t good in any role they put him in. He basically ended his career there as a depth guy who played teams. Finally had one solid season in NO as a 29 year old that he parlayed into a multiyear deal here.

I never bought the media narrative that Harris was an equivalent cheap replacement for Chinn. Chinn was a former DROY runner up (to CY ironically) whose 2021 and 2024 seasons were also better than any Harris had had

 

[BayouBrave86]

Welp looks like Tomlin should be available next season when we ultimately fire Quinn. Hopefully he stays on the sideline long enough for us to hire him. Tomlin would crush here. He just needs a change of scenery.

 

[NickyJ]

I wish with every fiber of my being that the Ravens and Steelers would swap head coaches, and when they both retire, that they move to the same retirement community.

I'm praying on my hands and knees.

 

[BayouBrave86]

Really is just our luck 2 HOF coaches become available and we are stuck with a guy who had to let go of his two coordinators after two seasons.

 

[NickyJ]

Really is just our luck 2 HOF coaches become available and we are stuck with a guy who had to let go of his two coordinators after two seasons.

Look at it a different way. It's just our luck that 2 coaches become available but we already have a coach who has been to the championship game in the past year.

I mean, it sucks that there's reasons to doubt him, but Tomlin and Harbaugh could just as well be on a Mike Shanahan career arc and not an Andy Reid career arc.

 

[burgold]

Yeah, I'm trying to think of which coaches really recaptured their magic a second time. Maybe Parcels?

Tomlin finally stepped away because I think he wanted to walk before he got fired. Harbaugh seemed to have also plateaued over the past few years. Maybe they'll be great again, but I think it'll be more likely they never get back to the heights where they once stood.

 

[BayouBrave86]

Look at it a different way. It's just our luck that 2 coaches become available but we already have a coach who has been to the championship game in the past year.

I mean, it sucks that there's reasons to doubt him, but Tomlin and Harbaugh could just as well be on a Mike Shanahan career arc and not an Andy Reid career arc.

Denver had missed the playoffs three straight years.