The HC Dan Quinn Discussion Thread

I think the tweet below sums it well. I do think injuries were the main problem. Clearly though not the only problem. I like what Keim said on his recent podcast that he heard that Quinn privately doesn't blame this season on injuries.

They lost their mojo among other things IMO leading to this season. Quinn his first season (Peters, too IMO) typified the hungry give me my 2nd chance at being a HC and I'll show you what I can do narrative. Quinn in his 2nd season (Peters, too) typified the I've arrived, I've been crowned and my crap doesn't stink and the edge-drive was gone and we got the season we did.

Quinn has said he learned thousands of lessons as to how not to do things last year. I believe him. Now, its on to seeing what he can do with his drive and humility back. And Peters, too. I think they pull it off but will see.

 
I don't know brother. I'm somewhat skeptical they were really that arrogant. They were aware just as we fans were, just how many of those wins last season were of the 'by the skin of our teeth' variety. It just doesn't seem likely to me that 2024 just went to their heads and they thought they'd just show up this season and have an equally amazing season (especially given they could see the schedule we got handed just like we could).

I think it's far more situational than attitudinal. Peters opted (mistakenly it turns out) to nudge the plan to 'win now' and forego the original plan which would've entailed guarding our draft picks and going young everywhere we could to sign a bunch of vets to short term deals. THAT may have been impacted by attitudes shaped by 2024 but that's as far as I'm willing to take it. As you yourself have argued, they tried to bubble-wrap starters throughout the offseason and preseason and that didn't work out so well. And then the mass injuries and brutal schedule hit and that was all she wrote.
 


Quinn wasted a lot of TO’s. A lot. He needs to improve in this area, which by extension means our players need to be coached to be more disciplined and smarter, as these wasted TO’s are often a product of failed operation—but some are also just a HC who isn’t using his TO’s in an analytically sound way. Meaning, in a tight game, sometimes you just have to take the delay of game and go to 2nd and 14 and change your offensive play call, rather than burn the TO to avoid the loss of yardage. Just as an example. Going into the end of the game with all 3 of your TO’s in your pocket means you can guarantee a possession for your QB after a defensive stop. On average the value of those 3 TO’s is around 45 seconds, an eternity (especially given the advanced field position we grew used to, particularly when McCaffrey was healthy, FG range is not far away).

He needs to improve in this category if he wants to remain an employed CEO-style HC who doesn’t call any plays.
 
It felt like every game I questioned (yelled at the screen) one time out usage, often extremely early in a half or right after a game break. It was like we were handicapped a TO each game due to poor management.
 
What's funny about that chart is the surrounding company: McVay was worse, Shanahan is right there. Meanwhile some of the better coaches at time outs are some of the worst: Fired Mike McCoy, Aaron Glenn, Pete Carroll.
 
What's funny about that chart is the surrounding company: McVay was worse, Shanahan is right there. Meanwhile some of the better coaches at time outs are some of the worst: Fired Mike McCoy, Aaron Glenn, Pete Carroll.

Definitely a tough skill set to find in an otherwise good coach. Sucks to have to pick and choose. But I do think if you aren’t a genius playcaller contributing directly to your team’s success, but instead are a CEO HC focused on the culture, motivation, organization, game management, etc…you need to give an advantage here. You can’t be just as bad as the stud playcaller at timeout management, or the list of things you bring to the table really starts to narrow.
 
Quinn admittedly has surprised me a bit. He did a lot of yelling and demonstration when he was in Seattle and had a knock out defense with the Seahawks but he doesn't seem to be that guy anymore.

Now that was 15 years ago and he was a coordinator and not the head coach, but as with Campbell and Shanahan, I expect SOME episodes of emotion come through on the sidelines just as we saw when these guys were assistants.

I think Quinn in 2025 tried to be too much of a friend of the players instead of their head coach.

Norv in all those years in the NFL never learned that his demeanor as an offensive coordinator needed to change somewhat when he was dealing with the 53 man roster and he had overall win/loss responsibilities.

Hopefully, Quinn will make some changes of his own for 2026.
 
I don't know brother. I'm somewhat skeptical they were really that arrogant. They were aware just as we fans were, just how many of those wins last season were of the 'by the skin of our teeth' variety. It just doesn't seem likely to me that 2024 just went to their heads and they thought they'd just show up this season and have an equally amazing season (especially given they could see the schedule we got handed just like we could).

I think it's far more situational than attitudinal. Peters opted (mistakenly it turns out) to nudge the plan to 'win now' and forego the original plan which would've entailed guarding our draft picks and going young everywhere we could to sign a bunch of vets to short term deals. THAT may have been impacted by attitudes shaped by 2024 but that's as far as I'm willing to take it. As you yourself have argued, they tried to bubble-wrap starters throughout the offseason and preseason and that didn't work out so well. And then the mass injuries and brutal schedule hit and that was all she wrote.

I don't think even remotely he nudged the plans to win now but he also didn't tear it down and do a rebuild. He played it in the middle. He didn't do a heck of a lot aside from upgrading the o line. Many expected an all hands on deck approach to fix the d line and he basically treaded water. WR treaded water to worse. Secondary treaded water, maybe a small boost by using a 2nd rounder on a CB. They signed older guys because they are cheap. It's not that Von Miller >> Josh Sweat. It's that an aging Von Miller is cheaper than signing a younger and up and coming Josh Sweat. Having top 3 cap space and spending the 14th amount in Fa is the opposite of all in.

Chinn is a bit expensive, we can get Harris for half the price -- opposite of all in. The big move on the D lines is swapping a more expensive for a cheaper Kinlaw -- opposite of all in. Having your #2 WR, your starting Z, on basically a veteran minimum salary, and banking on him at 30 years old plus to have his first year to be healthy -- opposite of all in.

To use a car analogy, you had to fix the breaks, get new tires, fix the transmission, and change the spark plugs. Peters changed the transmission and left the rest to chance mostly. The Bears are an example of a team that went all in.

By arrogant, as I've explained many times on different threads, I don't mean it in the traditional way. Peters and Quinn come off as nice guys. But watching them (mostly Quinn) and hearing what some beat guys were saying, it came off that they were feeling themselves some. And look I don't blame them, if people were writing 10 page articles about how I am a master culture builder or people were saying I deserve executive of the year I'd be feeling myself too.

The way Quinn approached camp and prepared Daniels for the season felt like a long walk through so they are rested for a playoff run. A bunch who covered camp talked about this. And Peters approach to some spots like WR, came off like he didn't think his crap stunk where he can find any dude off the street and watch him shine or thought Daniels didn't need anything special to succeed. I elaborated more about this on other threads. And I forgot who he said it but in one pressor this summer I just recall him grinning ear to ear and talked about this being one heck of a roster.
 
This is one reason I am glad there is no pressure now to be a Super Bowl team.

We need to go back to building this the right way and not take shortcuts like the Lattimore trade and bringing in a bunch of 31 and 32 year old veterans looking for one final run in the NFL.

We need younger, faster players with more to prove.
 
I don't think even remotely he nudged the plans to win now but he also didn't tear it down and do a rebuild. He played it in the middle. He didn't do a heck of a lot aside from upgrading the o line. Many expected an all hands on deck approach to fix the d line and he basically treaded water. WR treaded water to worse. Secondary treaded water, maybe a small boost by using a 2nd rounder on a CB. They signed older guys because they are cheap. It's not that Von Miller >> Josh Sweat. It's that an aging Von Miller is cheaper than signing a younger and up and coming Josh Sweat. Having top 3 cap space and spending the 14th amount in Fa is the opposite of all in.

Chinn is a bit expensive, we can get Harris for half the price -- opposite of all in. The big move on the D lines is swapping a more expensive for a cheaper Kinlaw -- opposite of all in. Having your #2 WR, your starting Z, on basically a veteran minimum salary, and banking on him at 30 years old plus to have his first year to be healthy -- opposite of all in.

To use a car analogy, you had to fix the breaks, get new tires, fix the transmission, and change the spark plugs. Peters changed the transmission and left the rest to chance mostly. The Bears are an example of a team that went all in.

By arrogant, as I've explained many times on different threads, I don't mean it in the traditional way. Peters and Quinn come off as nice guys. But watching them (mostly Quinn) and hearing what some beat guys were saying, it came off that they were feeling themselves some. And look I don't blame them, if people were writing 10 page articles about how I am a master culture builder or people were saying I deserve executive of the year I'd be feeling myself too.

The way Quinn approached camp and prepared Daniels for the season felt like a long walk through so they are rested for a playoff run. A bunch who covered camp talked about this. And Peters approach to some spots like WR, came off like he didn't think his crap stunk where he can find any dude off the street and watch him shine or thought Daniels didn't need anything special to succeed. I elaborated more about this on other threads. And I forgot who he said it but in one pressor this summer I just recall him grinning ear to ear and talked about this being one heck of a roster.
“Secondary treaded water, maybe a small boost by using a 2nd rounder on a CB”

Yes with hindsight, but most thought that after Donatell’s one year we were getting a huge upgrade by moving on from St Juste and Forbes. I don’t think that panned out. The other one where I assume they thought they made an improvement was making Noah I inactive for like 7 games or something.

So I think - reading tea leaves a bit- AP understood from Whitt and position coaches (indirect I assume) that DB needed a big upgrade and probably took their input as well as did their own homework. Through the collaborative approach they ended up with these DBs.

I think they expected these DBs to be a big improvement but it panned out as you said.
 
“Secondary treaded water, maybe a small boost by using a 2nd rounder on a CB”

Yes with hindsight, but most thought that after Donatell’s one year we were getting a huge upgrade by moving on from St Juste and Forbes. I don’t think that panned out. The other one where I assume they thought they made an improvement was making Noah I inactive for like 7 games or something.

So I think - reading tea leaves a bit- AP understood from Whitt and position coaches (indirect I assume) that DB needed a big upgrade and probably took their input as well as did their own homework. Through the collaborative approach they ended up with these DBs.

I think they expected these DBs to be a big improvement but it panned out as you said.

Felt like they looked at the off season as 4 key areas to upgrade clearly: D line, Secondary, O line, Weapons for Jayden.

They IMO punted on two of those four things. Didn't do much of note at D line. If anything weakened the passing weapons. Did something but not much for the secondary. Swapped a cheaper safety for Chinn. Decided to risk it by doubling down on Lattimore. And took Amos in the 2nd. OK, nothing major but it was something. They went all hands on deck for the O line.

I am guessing they thought if heck they can be in the championship with that roster why do they have go crazy in the off season, upgrading one unit in a big way should be plenty.

Back to the secondary. Yeah in theory if Lattimore found his form and Amos hit the ground running, that would be a strong unit. So I don't mind the idea that they attacked the secondary even though it failed. But I didn't find it that aggressive considering they went cheap at safety. But its the closest thing to them attacking another position aside from O line.
 
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Felt like they looked at the off season as 4 key areas to upgrade clearly: D line, Secondary, O line, Weapons for Jayden.

They IMO punted on two of those four things. Didn't do much of note at D line. If anything weakened the passing weapons. Did something but not much for the secondary. Swapped a cheaper safety for Chinn. Decided to risk it by doubling down on Lattimore. And took Amos in the 2nd. OK, nothing major but it was something. They went all hands on deck for the O line.

I am guessing they thought if heck they can be in the championship with that roster why do they have go crazy in the off season, upgrading one unit in a big way should be plenty.

Back to the secondary. Yeah in theory if Lattimore found his form and Amos hit the ground running, that would be a strong unit. So I don't mind the idea that they attacked the secondary even though it failed. But I didn't find it that aggressive considering they went cheap at safety. But its the closest thing to them attacking another position aside from O line.
I think that evaluation was partly done in collaboration with Donatell, and they thought J Jones would also be a big upgrade which didn’t pan out at all.

So you look at last year’s CB lineup for the majority of the year vs this year’s plan going into the season, it is changed everywhere except Sainristil.

It ended up as declining but BSJ, Forbes, Noah I were heavily relied on at different points last year, for the majority of the year with Mikey. Donatell only had one piece from most of last year (in that group of CBs) and there was likely thought that the changes plus a more healthy Lattimore would be a big upgrade.

I wonder how much Whitt and Donatell pushed these ideas and how much eval AP put himself.

Yes the eval had a lot of troubling aspects. How responsible coaches are vs FO though, depends I guess on how they collaborated on the upgrade plan. I imagine they may not use the same process this offseason.
 
Felt like they looked at the off season as 4 key areas to upgrade clearly: D line, Secondary, O line, Weapons for Jayden.

They IMO punted on two of those four things. Didn't do much of note at D line. If anything weakened the passing weapons. Did something but not much for the secondary. Swapped a cheaper safety for Chinn. Decided to risk it by doubling down on Lattimore. And took Amos in the 2nd. OK, nothing major but it was something. They went all hands on deck for the O line.

I am guessing they thought if heck they can be in the championship with that roster why do they have go crazy in the off season, upgrading one unit in a big way should be plenty.

Back to the secondary. Yeah in theory if Lattimore found his form and Amos hit the ground running, that would be a strong unit. So I don't mind the idea that they attacked the secondary even though it failed. But I didn't find it that aggressive considering they went cheap at safety. But its the closest thing to them attacking another position aside from O line.
They turned out to be wrong, but I think they thought they did try to massively improve Daniels' weapons. On paper, McLaurin, Deebo, and Brown with superspeedy Lane and Bill plus Swiss army knife McCaffrey sounds pretty good. The adds were Deebo, Lane, and Bill. The problems were injuries. We lost Mclaurin until effectively the season was over. Brown really never took the field at all. Bill held up his end of the deal. Lane showed some ability to get open deep (but dropped too many opportunities and then got hurt and IRed). I mean it's hard to field a strong unit if your starting five is McLaurin, Deebo, Brown, Lane, and McCaffrey and your reality is Chosen, Deebo, and other guys off the street.

I know you know this and aren't discounting it, but four of our top five receivers missed more than six games and some were closer to ten or the whole season. So, the front office didn't punt on supplying weapons, it's just that too many of them turned out to be duds.

I also had pretty high hopes for the secondary: Lattimore, Amos, Sainristil, Quan, and Harris didn't feel like neglect and when Harris came back the secondary did get better even though again... Lattimore and Amos were on IR. So, I don't think they punted on trying to improve units. The injury bug just killed this team. We kept having to rely on fifth stringers on almost every unit.
 
The fact that the NFC only features one elite QB this season shows the importance of having an actual legitimate roster. The 49ers are into the second round of the playoffs after a season of key players missing significant time, some out for the season. Injuries can definitely make a season a whole lot tougher, but properly built rosters can withstand a lot of more than they get credit for.
 
They turned out to be wrong, but I think they thought they did try to massively improve Daniels' weapons. On paper, McLaurin, Deebo, and Brown with superspeedy Lane and Bill plus Swiss army knife McCaffrey sounds pretty good. The adds were Deebo, Lane, and Bill. The problems were injuries. We lost Mclaurin until effectively the season was over. Brown really never took the field at all. Bill held up his end of the deal. Lane showed some ability to get open deep (but dropped too many opportunities and then got hurt and IRed). I mean it's hard to field a strong unit if your starting five is McLaurin, Deebo, Brown, Lane, and McCaffrey and your reality is Chosen, Deebo, and other guys off the street.

I know you know this and aren't discounting it, but four of our top five receivers missed more than six games and some were closer to ten or the whole season. So, the front office didn't punt on supplying weapons, it's just that too many of them turned out to be duds.

I also had pretty high hopes for the secondary: Lattimore, Amos, Sainristil, Quan, and Harris didn't feel like neglect and when Harris came back the secondary did get better even though again... Lattimore and Amos were on IR. So, I don't think they punted on trying to improve units. The injury bug just killed this team. We kept having to rely on fifth stringers on almost every unit.

I don't think so as to WR. Sounded crappy to me and I said so before the season. The starting lineup sounded meh at best. But the depth was ridiculously bad. Comical. I've followed the team a long time of course, I've never seen worse depth. But to make it even more absurd is their starting Z WR, was over 30 and never had a healthy season in their career, and was hurt all off season to boot, and yet they decided to let it ride with no net behind him as the starting Z WR. While I defended injuries as the prime reason for the team's collapse -- the WR spot is 100% on Peters. And I am not alone on this, several people who cover the team and generally like Peters echo my point.

Even Keim in a podcast said the knew from speaking to sources with the team they thought they needed another off season to complete the roster and knew they were especially thin at Wr and edge with no margin for error.

Deebo was a good trade, I recall you don't think so, but he's a gadget WR, he's gravy. Banking on a raw late 4th round Wr (I was very familiar with him I talked about him pre draft, he ran very basic routes in college, screens-hitches), who even the team told reporters they see him as a punt returner this coming season not so much WR, doesn't mean anything to me. Ditto the late third rounder McCaffrey who had an underwhelming rookie season.

But the kicker was Noah Brown as your Z. Even Standig who is actually ironically the king of don't spend resources at Wr narratives, couldn't even get this, and still doesn't and asked Peters about it at the end of the year press conference. Peters explained that they had designs on some WRs but they were out of their price range. And to quote him "they learned a lesson" on this.

When Chris Moore can't catch a ball to save his life yet kept getting starts at X with Terry out -- a reporter checked in with the team on this as to why they are sticking with Moore and the response he got is he's the only backup on the team that knows how to run the routes at X -- wow, pathetic. And that spot was as poorly put together that I can ever recall in my years following the team.

The good news is I gather the team gets their mistake and will fix it. But on the off chance they don't, I'll be pushing for Peters to be canned. You can't be the team that's the punchline again as to where a young QB doesn't want to go to -- and when you got Jayden's pal and Jayden's mom liking social media posts that goof on how little he had to work with at WR, you begin to flirt with that narrative. The teams young QBs go to die for decades have been the Bears, Washington, the Jets, Browns. The Bears are the team to escape that label. Washington seemed to escape it last year but IMO are smack now back into the TBD category on this.

You want a team that takes helping the young QB seriously, its basically every other team almost in the NFL but the Bears espeically make the comparison absurd. The Bears take it VERY seriously. This team does it half baked which is better than nothing but not nearly good enough.
 
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The fact that the NFC only features one elite QB this season shows the importance of having an actual legitimate roster. The 49ers are into the second round of the playoffs after a season of key players missing significant time, some out for the season. Injuries can definitely make a season a whole lot tougher, but properly built rosters can withstand a lot of more than they get credit for.

Helps that with the injuries you still have your star player, with the 49ers it's McCaffrey, they fell apart when he got hurt last year. But to your point, they can withstand injuries much better because of their depth. They keep adding to their offensive talent in the off season, Bears style so when you lose Aiyuk you have Persall that you draft in the first, etc.

They aren't like hey we got Terry so forget using high resources -- 1st-2nd round picks or high end FAs on weapons. The teams that seem constantly in the playoffs, have the QB, but also load up that QB. Is there a team more dependant on one guy to make an offense go more than this team? Even Von Miller talked about this towards the end of the season saying its an entirely different team when Terry is on the field. It's true. But it shouldn't be.
 
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Depth and talent always look so much better with better coaching though. One of the “rich getting richer” cycles that plays out with good coaching is the Tunsil trade. Good player? Absolutely. Well-coached? Definitely. So he can be replaced, and is- now his team is getting deep in the playoffs with draft picks in hand.

That is one of the “good coaching” cycles we get a lot. Well coached teams trading players willingly. It is not only a function of the FO picking well even though that matters.

It makes me really nervous with DQ at the helm. I feel this team did well enough at GM but grossly botched the HC move and frankly I think Macdonald was a realistic option.
 
I think that evaluation was partly done in collaboration with Donatell, and they thought J Jones would also be a big upgrade which didn’t pan out at all.

So you look at last year’s CB lineup for the majority of the year vs this year’s plan going into the season, it is changed everywhere except Sainristil.

It ended up as declining but BSJ, Forbes, Noah I were heavily relied on at different points last year, for the majority of the year with Mikey. Donatell only had one piece from most of last year (in that group of CBs) and there was likely thought that the changes plus a more healthy Lattimore would be a big upgrade.

I wonder how much Whitt and Donatell pushed these ideas and how much eval AP put himself.

Yes the eval had a lot of troubling aspects. How responsible coaches are vs FO though, depends I guess on how they collaborated on the upgrade plan. I imagine they may not use the same process this offseason.

I can give an explanation for secondary on their behalf. It's sort of burgold's point at WR, which is well thought out, but I disagree with 100%.

But secondary, its hey we get rid of the bad CBs. Improve depth by adding Jones. Lattimore was once a stud, if he's healthy he will be a stud again. They add Amos. Move Sainristil back to his old position at slot and watch us kill. The problem was Lattimore sucked. And Sainristil sucked at slot.

And it was half backed, too because they did nothing at safety aside from swapping Chinn for a cheaper journeyman safety in Will Harris. And then Quan had a terrible year. If I had to think of what was the most embarassing of the team's summer comments witth the benfit of hindsight is ther safety spot -- hyping it's depth and being one of the team's strongest positions and that Quan Martin was an emerging star.
 
I can give an explanation for secondary on their behalf. It's sort of burgold's point at WR, which is well thought out, but I disagree with 100%.

But secondary, its hey we get rid of the bad CBs. Improve depth by adding Jones. Lattimore was once a stud, if he's healthy he will be a stud again. They add Amos. Move Sainristil back to his old position at slot and watch us kill. The problem was Lattimore sucked. And Sainristil sucked at slot.

And it was half backed, too because they did nothing at safety aside from swapping Chinn for a cheaper journeyman safety in Will Harris. And then Quan had a terrible year. If I had to think of what was the most embarassing of the team's summer comments witth the benfit of hindsight is ther safety spot -- hyping it's depth and being one of the team's strongest positions and that Quan Martin was an emerging star.
I get everything you are saying but I am saying it is hard to divorce poor coaching’s effects here.

Did you watch last night’s game? People correctly lauding Texans D and those CBs were blanketing. Some good throws by Rodgers, right on the money, and the key to no PI was “simple” - be able to see the WR looking at the ball and turn your head around. They did it so well- it had to be coached up.

Meanwhile, our CBs? Frankly? It is almost never. It is almost like it is coached DOWN.
 
Depth and talent always look so much better with better coaching though. One of the “rich getting richer” cycles that plays out with good coaching is the Tunsil trade. Good player? Absolutely. Well-coached? Definitely. So he can be replaced, and is- now his team is getting deep in the playoffs with draft picks in hand.

That is one of the “good coaching” cycles we get a lot. Well coached teams trading players willingly. It is not only a function of the FO picking well even though that matters.

It makes me really nervous with DQ at the helm. I feel this team did well enough at GM but grossly botched the HC move and frankly I think Macdonald was a realistic option.

Tunsil is a top 5 talent. And has been that good everywhere. The Texans O line is bad without him. Ranked near the bottom via PFF. But when you got an elite defense and a good QB with weapons you can apparently overcome a bad unit elsewhere.

I don't think Quinn is a bad coach. His defenses were top 10 on a regular basis. He was worshipped after season 1. I posted the articles about how much players loved and responded to him. Whitt was a terrible coach IMO.

But it was a thin roster. After their injuries it was the worst team talent wise in the NFL. I think the Mariota to Chirs Moore version of the team with the skeleton crew at defense is the worst Washington team talent wise in my lifetime. I don't think they underacheived once the team was decimated. They didn't have a Kittle, Jennings, Pearsal, McCaffrey to throw the ball to, And again the 49ers when they got hit last year with injuries which included McCaffrey they fell apart. the 49ers defense this year was atrocious. But their offense can make up for it.
 

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