The Deshaun Watson thread

Hog Fever

Hog Fever

Vescere bracis meis
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I know some of this was discussed in the "Random Thoughts" thread but since this is hardly a random thought I figured it deserved it's own place. So here it is.

Let me state for the record that for the first time in a long time I actually like the direction the team is moving in. In spite of all of the Panthers in the mix I'm hopeful about next season. That said, without a QB here to build around we're never going to be more than middle of the pack team. What do all four of the team left in the playoff have in common? I'll give you one guess. As much as I appreciate one of the greatest comeback stories of all time with Smith and the guts a determination of Heinicke neither is leading this team to the Super Bowl next season.

After winning the division this season (barely) what do you think happens to us next season when we play a first place schedule and deal with an improving Giants team and a Dallas team who will have Prescott back?

No team has sustained success in the NFL without a franchise QB and we don't have one. Watson would check that box for us in a big way. What would it be worth? If the Texans asked for three first rounders I'd give it to them and laugh all the way to the playoffs for the next 5 years. Everything else can be fixed through the draft or in free agency. Who is off limits in a trade? I'm not sure anyone is off limits. I'm not saying I want to see any of these guys go but let's look at the facts. The top eight defensive teams for this past season are done.Tampa is the highest ranked defense left at 9th. Want to know who the top 3 ranked QBs were for this past season? Rogers, Mahomes and Allen....... Brady was 7th and Watson was 4th on a team where I'd be hard pressed to name a single receiver. Smith finished 28th.

Get on the phone and make it happen.
 
Whose going to protect Watson? We have to get solid upfront otherwise the investment would be a waste. I don't favor trading 3 first rounders for Watson, hell I don't favor any trade for Watson, players who sign big money deals then get whiny when they can't "run" the team, I'm out.
 
My understanding is that he is unhappy because he feels that he was lied to by the owner about being involved in the process of selecting a new GM and HC.

I think the organization should investigate but keep Dan Snyder locked up in a room somewhere. 😉
 
Granted, Watson is only 25 and has gotten better every year and could DEFINITELY be considered a franchise QB but the cost, picks and salary, could prevent the team from keeping the Defense intact going forward. Not saying I'm against it but it's a HUGE gamble which could set the team back a few years if it doesn't work.
 
I'll pick on you Jimbo but know that it's only out of love for ya. I don't think it's as much of a gamble as some might think, for a few reasons.

All of the rules in the modern NFL tilt the field to the offense. I'm not saying that a defense isn't important but an offense is MORE important and the numbers don't lie. If you have a franchise QB you make the playoffs more times that if you have a dominant defense.

There is no guarantee that any of the people we draft turn out to be great players. We've proven that time and time again. I don't need to go down the list.

Let's say for the sake of argument that we keep our next three years of first round picks. Let's also assume that the team isn't terrible and ends up between 9-7 and 7-9. Who do we get with those first rounders? The second or third best LT in the draft....ok that's good. A QB who may or may not work out. The second or third best receiver? Cross your fingers and check back in a couple of years. By that point a lot of the talent on defense we have now may have moved on for more money. Who knows?

Watson is a plug and play guy. He immediately makes our offense legitimate. He can move, he has a great arm and is liked by his teammates by all accounts I can find. His relationship with management is one I can't comment on with any certainty because there are conflicting stories. We would have to make sure there isn't something funny there but if it's just an ego thing I wouldn't be worried. What above average QB in the league doesn't have a big ego? Sure it's not always what I like to see but are you telling me Aaron Rodgers doesn't have a big ego? He comes across as a smug punk at times. I'd still want him as my QB.

Sure we could try to get a guy who was nearing the end of his career in free agency and draft a second WR but that isn't more than a band-aide. This would fix an issue we've had at QB for more years than I can count.

We got burned with RGIII but this situation is different. We KNOW Watson can play. He's got the numbers to prove it. If we were still in the playoff this time next year nobody would be saying it wasn't worth it.
 
Like I said in the other thread, I want Watson on my team, he checks all the boxes yada yada yada. My stance has NOTHING to do with his skillset.


My issue is that freak things happen all the time. The freak injury is what scares me. Investing not only $40 mil a year in a player, but then giving up 3+ first round picks to acquire that player is risky business. If you could somehow guarantee me that there is some very minimal and minute risk of catastrophic injury, then I'm all in. Watson for the next 3 years is more valuable than those picks would likely end up being... but there is a major risk of that injury. This is not Madden (not saying you're speaking from that mentality, but more being able to increase a 'rating' to work in your favor) where you can develop Watson to have a 99 'injury' rating so you essentially don't have to worry about it. Freak things happen all the time, so there is a major risk that I don't know I'm comfortable taking.
 
I mean, there's a part of me that screams - we've already done this - haven't we? I get that Watson is a lot more effective QB than RG3 was. That makes no difference whatsoever if we give up the farm for him and he suffers one of those career-altering injuries we seem to specialize in. It's the entire reason why megatrades for a single player are almost never a good idea. I know. He's a top 5 QB. I get it. Still makes me nervous.
 
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It's a different situation IMO. We didn't know what RGIII was (Shanahan might have). We know what Watson is. I understand the injury concerns but you could say the same thing about any of the QBs left in the playoffs.

I just think that in today's NFL building around anything other than QB is a mistake. The numbers back that up. If you want sustained success get a franchise QB. We don't have one. If we don't get one do you expect us to win more games next year than we did this year? I don't see it.
 
Hog Fever said:
It's a different situation IMO. We didn't know what RGIII was (Shanahan might have). We know what Watson is. I understand the injury concerns but you could say the same thing about any of the QBs left in the playoffs.

I just think that in today's NFL building around anything other than QB is a mistake. The numbers back that up. If you want sustained success get a franchise QB. We don't have one. If we don't get one do you expect us to win more games next year than we did this year? I don't see it.
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Yes - any QB can get hurt at any time. It's the investment you lose along with the QB if they have an Alex Smith type injury. And is Watson one of those guys, who like Griffin, an ACL tear totally changes? I don't know. I just think it's too much to risk. And it would run counter to the approach we've taken that's finally gotten us on the brink of success. Build, keep building, build some more. I do get the allure of it.
 
[/QUOTE]
Yes - any QB can get hurt at any time. It's the investment you lose along with the QB if they have an Alex Smith type injury. And is Watson one of those guys, who like Griffin, an ACL tear totally changes? I don't know. I just think it's too much to risk. And it would run counter to the approach we've taken that's finally gotten us on the brink of success. Build, keep building, build some more. I do get the allure of it.
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I get it. and like I mentioned in my first post I like the direction the team is moving for a change. My overall concern is the same one I've had for a while "What's our ceiling without a franchise QB?" On a side note, how would it positively impact the team by bringing in a guy like that? How might that impact free agency? As is, we aren't exactly a free agent destination.

Certainly there is risk involved. There is risk involved with doing nothing too.

We're going to have to do something before next season at QB. Matt Ryan Matt Stafford, Cam Newton.....someone else? Nobody on the roster.
 
Yes you could say that about any qb in the playoffs.. and none of those teams gave up 3 first round picks.

Yes if Watson is healthy for 17 games next year and the majority of the rest of his career it's possibly worth it, but we know we need a LT and another WR. Trading 3 first round picks greatly reduces the likelihood that you get those guys PLUS and ILB. You also eat cap space to resign your current defense while not having first round picks to replace then on cheap salaries.

It's a lot to invest in one player. If you do it, you better he right or you set your franchise back at least 6 to 7 years.
 
" No team has sustained success in the NFL without a franchise QB and we don't have one. " Hmmmm... I seem to remember a team that had a very successful run, with four superbowl appearances, three Lombardi's, and three different QB's getting there. I'll bee dipped, but just can't remember the name of "The Football Team."

Pass on Watson.... I'd bring in Ryan out of all the people you mention. Newton is a poor excuse for a QB at this point, and Stafford is overrated in my book. My expectations for this team next season is a more consistent product in the running for the division. I don't expect a superbowl run next season.
 
Watson reminds me of Big Ben in the way he can escape behind the LOS. And the throws he does make after being Houdini can be absolutely perfect.

But without support, he'll be another Jay Cutler. I do not think we can feasibly afford him and he might not want to come here.

The pure dismantling Bill O' Brien did to that Houston team would be enough to make anyone check out. Franchise WR, Dlineman, LT, all traded away for pretty much nothing back.
 
I see what you did there Miles. Very clever. I could say that it's a different game today, and the way teams have to be built is a lot different that it was 30 years ago due mostly to free agency. Both points are true, but I'd rather just chalk that up to a Hall of Fame coach knowing exactly how to utilize the strengths of the QBs he had on the roster. In fact I once made the druken argument that had Jason Campbell QB'd the Rypien team he would have won the Super Bowl as well. Their skill sets were very similar. He didn't do anything anywhere after Gibbs left. Rivera is not Joe Gibbs. We do not have talent like those Super Bowl teams had at so many positions either.

I stick by my original points. If you want sustained success in today's NFL you need a franchise QB. We don't have one. Without an upgrade at QB I don't see us winning more games than we did this season next year. One of the retreads might be good enough for us to be in the hunt for the division but if they aren't good enough to help us contend for a title why bother? The Colts rented Rivers for a year. Now what? Back to Brisett I guess. Good luck with that.

I seem to be in the big minority here about Watson. That's fine. We'll see how things play out.
 
Miles Monroe said:
" No team has sustained success in the NFL without a franchise QB and we don't have one. " Hmmmm... I seem to remember a team that had a very successful run, with four superbowl appearances, three Lombardi's, and three different QB's getting there. I'll bee dipped, but just can't remember the name of "The Football Team."

Pass on Watson.... I'd bring in Ryan out of all the people you mention. Newton is a poor excuse for a QB at this point, and Stafford is overrated in my book. My expectations for this team next season is a more consistent product in the running for the division. I don't expect a superbowl run next season.
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The player acquisition environment was different then and the last time a terrible-QB team won was the 2000 Ravens.
 
The Jets have sooo much more to offer. The Dolphins are next.
We need OL and WR help or it wont matter who is throwing. Especially WR.

Not in at all on Stafford. 33 years old and I would much rather be going in with 2 guys who have done just fine in the offense already and are much younger.
Give me Heinecke and Kyle Allen and draft picks any day over Stafford.
 
I do think it matters who is throwing the ball, whether our OL and WRs are world class or just okay. If Taylor Heinicke level ability put us on the brink of a playoff win against Brady and the Bucs, that shows you how much QB skill can mask a lot of issues.

I don't think there is necessarily just one way to solve a problem. But just like most years, any premier QBs available will spark bidding wars, and I just am not sure we should be the team in the middle of one of those when we are one or two drafts away from having a potentially dominating roster?

The irony is that not one of the supposedly difference making QBs rumored to be available has had any playoff success or taken their teams to glory. Think hard about that. Yes - there are some QBs who can almost 'will' their teams, even with suboptimal rosters around them, to the playoffs every year. Brady, Rodgers, Wilson, maybe Roethlisberger - but after that, who are those guys? Do any of the 'available' vets meet that standard? For the most part, unless you have that kind of QB, how many wins you have is largely going to be about your overall talent level.

I think the 'you can't win without a top QB' argument stated emphatically as 'truth' doesn't always hold up to the facts. Or at least, the counter-argument is, a great QB doesn't guarantee you a perennial playoff contender.
 
And isn't it funny how a 33 year old QB suddenly sounds like a youngster with his career in front of him? Lol.
 
Trent Dilfer has a ring while Philip Rivers does not

Joey T has a ring while Dan Marino does not

IMO - the QB position just needs to be manageable and not as vital as the pieces around him, OL, DL, CB are more important than the guy snapping the ball.
 
I'll confess I'm a little all over the map on this topic. I do understand how much a great QB can change an offense's fortunes. And Trent Dilfer, as we all know, is the exception just like getting a Tom Brady or Russell Wilson with a late round pick is.

I would love to have a Matt Stafford or Deshaun Watson level QB under center. Who wouldn't?!

But the problem for me is that trading a bunch of valuable picks and/or talent to get one of those guys feels like we're trying to take a shortcut because we can't find our own Brady or Wilson in the economically smart and traditional way. Perhaps unlikely, but still possible we already have a future star on the roster in either Allen or Heinicke - and we want to trade the farm for someone?

Makes me very nervous.

I also feel like, if we significantly improve this team over the next 2 drafts, we will have a lot more leverage in attracting a great veteran QB here without having to give away everything to get him.
 
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