The All Things Terry Thread

[prodigy]

Judging by fan polls on twitter, talk radio, etc -- heck even Keim referenced this point on a recent podcast, Terry has lost some PR ground with fans.

Among other things, Terry comes off like he deserves to be compensated extra for being a good guy. He's made references to the point about how good of a solider he's been and that needs to be accounted for. Look if I helped an old woman cross the street -- it's a good deed. If I went to the woman and asked for $5 for it. It sours it some in my book. And look its not apples to apples and extreme as that. But it plays off of the idea that great leaders don't say they are great leaders -- and that's part of what makes them great.

I can deal with Terry not being like some players in the NFL who give a little to help the team. I can deal with him wanted to get a fair salary, too. But the idea that he doesn't budge in contracts (didn't do it last time either), wants to be overpaid (granted he doesn't think its overpayment), takes shot at the organization he supposedly loves, and holds -- that's a lot of drama for me, and yeah am with the fans that side with the team on this.

Do I still love Terry? You bet. do I think he's tarnished his "team first" reputation. For me, absolutely. If it doesn't for you. That's cool, to each their own.

As for sucking up the overpay. I'll start with the gap seems more than 4-5 million. But lets stick to 5 million for argument sake. 5 million a year is basically a player every year. But its not about Terry of course in a vaccum -- but 5 million here, another 5 million there, another 5 million there and then you are talking about a marquee player per season.

If it was no big deal how much Terry was overpaid in the eyes of this FO, I don't think they would stubbornly hold their ground.

Agree if we just had to pander to one dude where the FO felt they were paying over their value, its not the end of the world. But they got Tunsill coming up who is a hard negotiator. Luvu. Probably got to rework Payne's contract. Also moving cap dollars year after year

yeah i'm not saying he hasn't lost some points, because I think him and his agent are being fools with their contract demands. some people, however, seem to be making it out like Terry is a toxic diva all of a sudden and that his "true colors" are being shown.

edit: my 4 to 5 million number is coming my guess that the realistic contract range is 29 to 34 million (I don't think he's gonna get to 33). I know the demand is "significantly greater" than DK's, but I think that's just a dumb negotiating tactic and Buddy Baker can't really believe that number is attainable. if he does, he needs to be barred from being a sports agent. i'm not saying the 5 million is insignificant, from a GM perspective, and the team should do their best to minimize overpay, i'm just saying 4 to 5 million from the perspective of a fan that wants to hyperventilate over every million dollars.

 

[Skinfanjon]

The thing about Sutton saying he took less is, I highly highly doubt he was offered more and was like, no, give me less. All it means to me is he didn’t apply maximum leverage and use all tools at his disposal to fight for every dollar. And who knows how much more he could have gotten if he did. A mil or two? Five? We just can’t know.

Regardless, his deal looks a little light, just like DKs deal looks heavy, even for their respective ages. They should be seen as high and low water marks IMO and settle in the middle at $28M for Terry. Problem is I’d be surprised if Peters wasn’t already in that range while Terry is starting at Metcalf+ . If that’s the case, he has to make the first concession.

So, we wait.

Higgins deal still seems like the best comp. Terry can say “He’s not a number 1 WR” and team can say “You’re not 26”.

 

[prodigy]

In all honesty I don't see anyone on this team that isn't already doing all of that

also, all of those guys were cut or traded over the course of the last 2 years. my main point wasn't that others aren't that but I'm pushing back on the notion that Terry is "me first".

 

[skinsinparadise]

yeah i'm not saying he hasn't lost some points, because I think him and his agent are being fools with their contract demands. some people, however, seem to be making it out like Terry is a toxic diva all of a sudden and that his "true colors" are being shown.

Yeah agree with this. He's not a toxic diva. I think he's been a diva with the contract negotiation to an extent -- but considering his agent is likely fueling it and he's far from a diva on the field, it balances it out.

For me the most annoying part of Terry's negotiation is this.

A. Terry says its not about the money but about getting the highest figure that matches or beats (whatever WRs Terry is comparing himself to the FO in negotiations) the elite WRs in the league -- that would show Terry that the team values him as equally elite.

Lets juxtapose that with Sutton among some other players who said they are making plenty and don't need to push for that much more in part because they want to win a SB, etc, build a team.

So Terry is about validation from the FO about how much they value and love him. It's all about him. That's with me going with his own spin and taking him at his word, that its not about the money but what the money signifies to him.

How about talking about the signficance of winning a SB and how much it would mean to him, his teammates and the fans? I get that contract negotiations is a solitary drill. But there have been players who have talked about what their contract means to the team, winning, etc. Terry's talk is about how much the FO loves and values Terry -- nothing else seems to matter him in that context or if it does its very minor since he's not talking about it.

Does Terry want his legacy to be like Santana Moss? A great WR in a vacuum of a team which achieved nothing. Would he rather he's loved to whatever he thinks he deserves to be loved -- or does he want a SB? His legacy will be way different than Santana if he won a SB.

Not saying he doesn't want to win. But I don't really hear any of it in his rhetoric. His rhetotic seems to be ego-centric, right down to talking about himself in third person. And again I blame his agent for it. As Logan Paulsen said, the agent is supposed to ground you and cool your emotions. Feels like (my words not Logan's) his agent is making Terry more high strung though the process let alone calming him down.

 

[skinsinparadise]

also, all of those guys were cut or traded over the course of the last 2 years. my main point wasn't that others aren't that but I'm pushing back on the notion that Terry is "me first".

Personally, I think Terry isn't "me first" on the field. He's not "me first" with the fans. He's 10 out of 10 on that front. But oddly he's a "me first" when it comes to contract. And look plenty of players are like that. It's fine. But he seems to take a level above on that front. Considering it comes off so out of character with the rest of Terry's persona, I am guessing his agent is a big part of it.

 

[prodigy]

Personally, I think Terry isn't "me first" on the field. He's not "me first" with the fans. He's 10 out of 10 on that front. But oddly he's a "me first" when it comes to contract. And look plenty of players are like that. It's fine. But he seems to take a level above on that front. Considering it comes off so out of character with the rest of Terry's persona, I am guessing his agent is a big part of it.

yeah, I would prefer he not be greedy and I do think that's the agent's doing, wholeheartedly. but, I do somewhat sympathize with terry - maybe I'm a sucker for doing so. for the same reason we, the fans, and the team don't want to overpay Terry because of his age, he feels the need to get as much out of his last contract as he can especially since he was on a 3rd round rookie contract before (4 yr(s) / $3,847,671). since his career started later in life, he has a smaller career window unlike someone who entered the league at 21 or 22 and had 8 to 9 earning years before hitting age 30. the team is not responsible for terry's unfortunate circumstance and I don't want them to overpay because of it...but I do understand.

 

[Chris]

Terry’s agent works for Terry. There comes a point when blaming the agent, primarily by the fans, becomes silly. His agent is not holding a gun to his head. When the principal is serious about striking a fair deal the agent will capitulate…if he values his monetary percentage. I don’t believe that Terry’s agent is the prime agent provocateur in this negotiation.

 

[prodigy]

Terry’s agent works for Terry. There comes a point when blaming the agent, primarily by the fans, becomes silly. His agent is not holding a gun to his head. When the principal is serious about striking a fair deal the agent will capitulate…if he values his monetary percentage. I don’t believe that Terry’s agent is the prime agent provocateur in this negotiation.

perhaps...but they are the ones that are supposed to have the pulse on the market and provide counsel. I think it's natural to have some level of skepticism towards the agent when his client list is pretty bereft of stars with earning potential and the agent's personal interest is directly tied to his client's. if he was a more notable agent where another large contract would be like a drop in their fee bucket, he would be less in our crosshairs.

 

[Chris]

perhaps...but they are the ones that are supposed to have the pulse on the market and provide counsel. I think it's natural to have some level of skepticism towards the agent when his client list is pretty bereft of stars with earning potential and the agent's personal interest is directly tied to his client's. if he was a more notable agent where another large contract would be like a drop in their fee bucket, he would be less in our crosshairs.

All of that is true. But, at the end of the day the agent is simply a hired gun. Terry is a mature grown man, both intellectually and emotionally, with a solid upbringing. Again, Terry doesn’t have a gun to his head and the fact that he and his agent are acting in concert so far lands more heavily on Terry.

 

[skinzplay]

Yeah, to me it definitely didn't seem like he was parroting rehearsed lines after that Eastern Motors shoot. That was McLaurin sentiment, no doubt largely affected by Baker's unrealistic expectations

 

[Conn]

It's really unfortunate. There are a bunch of ways to get this done, a lot of creativity that can be implemented, but the key is Terry has to recognize he's 30 and that matters. Not this year, MAYBE not next year, but it really does matter if you go ahead into his age 32 and 33 seasons, which would be part of this extension.

Something Galdi said which I think was really insightful: this is the first time the team has leaked anything about anything. They've been entirely buttoned up about literally everything, nobody knows what they are going to do until they've done it. Until Schefter when on TV and told everybody Terry was looking for more than DK got.

That's a change in strategy and it's noticeable. Galdi speculated it could be because Peters was irked by Terry's Eastern Motors showcase, and so this was his response. The more I think about it, the more I think that's probably exactly what happened. Terry has no leverage except for getting fan pressure. So he went out and tried to drum up more fan sentiment. Peters didn't love he was so public about it, and also probably thinks Terry's side is being obstinate and unreasonable. So, he fired back by leaking to Schefter a counter point.

In the end, it's not a big deal. But it is telling the Commanders are SO secretive and buttoned up, this type of information does not leak unless it's intentional. And this seemed very intentional. Then you have to question why.

Will it matter in the end? Probably not.

I think we're heading to a point where Terry is going to have to make a choice to sit out regular season games or not, either with or without a contract extension.

Here's what I don't know: now that Terry is "holding in" and they've claimed he has an ankle injury, can he just stay on PUP all year, get paid, and never play, and then get to FA? Can the Commanders pull him off the PUP list without his consent? If he comes off of PUP, and is around the team but refuses to play, then what? These are the questions I don't know the answer to.

It is interesting to see what Terry CAN do and what he CAN'T do, and what the team CAN do, and what they CAN'T do because it determines the leverage each side has.

To be fair, Schefter made it a point that he “thought” that’s what’s going on. He didn’t report it directly as being the case. He said “I think Terry McLaurin wants significantly more than DK”, which is different than how he says things when he’s reporting facts.

Could still be coming from our FO but there’s cover if so, and there’s a chance it’s not.

 

[skinsinparadise]

All of that is true. But, at the end of the day the agent is simply a hired gun. Terry is a mature grown man, both intellectually and emotionally, with a solid upbringing. Again, Terry doesn’t have a gun to his head and the fact that he and his agent are acting in concert so far lands more heavily on Terry.

I mostly agree. The thing I put on the agent some is Logan Paulsen got into depth in a podcast about how his agent and he knows other agents who feel like they need to help tamper down the players expectations sometimes and keep them cool in negotiations -- and it feels like this agent is doing the opposite.

But from Terry's standpoint, its disappointing to me how he's touting being a team guy while talking about needing validation from the team by paying him whatever he wants -- without one mention in the mix unless i missed it of hey this is a SB window, I am willing to work with the team to maximize this opportunity for all sides, etc.

If I take Terry's point on its surface which is its not about the money its about what the money signifies as to how the team values him -- like its if you pay me the highest number imaginable it would show him the love. It's a really a me above the team point.

And bottom line, is I am not talking about giving a team discount, Terry clearly doesn't roll like that, but just being fair where the team isn't held over a barrell by Terry. In other words, not only does Terry clearly not give a crap about helping the team as to keeping other players, etc but is also going the opposite extreme where he doesn't care how his "feelings" effect the roster in a negative way -- whether its not showing up to camp or pushing the FO for an overpay and damn the consequences of how it effects the rest of the roster.

 

[NoCalSkins]

The agent in theory has no loyalty to the team either, so while the agent might know full well Washington isn't going to pay him the number they are throwing out there, he may be puffing Terry up to believe he will get that number somewhere, so then it becomes about what the priority is, just hunting for the team who will offer the most or is being part of an organization that has a lot of winning in the near future happening. There is always going to be a balance there between the competing approaches to getting the best contract, but that is business. Neither side want to commit to what they feel is less beneficial to their side of the equation.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

To be fair, Schefter made it a point that he “thought” that’s what’s going on. He didn’t report it directly as being the case. He said “I think Terry McLaurin wants significantly more than DK”, which is different than how he says things when he’s reporting facts.

Could still be coming from our FO but there’s cover if so, and there’s a chance it’s not.

I think that's semantics. Schefter isn't going to go on a national TV show and pontificate about something he doesn't know. I'd bet all the money in my front left pocket the team told him, and probably said "don't say we told you but say you know."

Galdi and Sheehan both said they believe this came from the team directly.

Nobody else would give Schefter that information, and he's not going to guess about it.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Schefter didn't just say more than Metcalf but "signficantly" more. I am guessing then Terry is looking for 35-40 million a season. And doing it with a bit of emotional blackmail saying multiple times its not about the money but what the money signifies that he's as good or better than said players making the same. Heck even if Terry was 25, the point would be borderline ridiculous. But adding that he will be 31, when his new contract would even start makes its double ridiculous.

At least judging by their public statements, its something like this (some hyperbole on my end to bring the points in hard)

A. the money will show how much they love me. If they don't pay me what I believe I deserve it shows they don't value me. Simple as that.

B. The age issue is ridiculous. i don't care how many other Wrs dropped off their production in their 30s -- I am Terry "f" Mclaurin. I am special. I am built different. I am going to age like a fine French wine.

I think Terry is getting horrible advice. He doesn't seem like the type to be entirely thick.

There were rumors that his representation is a pain to deal with.

 

[Chris]

I mostly agree. The thing I put on the agent some is Logan Paulsen got into depth in a podcast about how his agent and he knows other agents who feel like they need to help tamper down the players expectations sometimes and keep them cool in negotiations -- and it feels like this agent is doing the opposite.

But from Terry's standpoint, its disappointing to me how he's touting being a team guy while talking about needing validation from the team by paying him whatever he wants -- without one mention in the mix unless i missed it of hey this is a SB window, I am willing to work with the team to maximize this opportunity for all sides, etc.

If I take Terry's point on its surface which is its not about the money its about what the money signifies as to how the team values him -- like its if you pay me the highest number imaginable it would show him the love. It's a really a me above the team point.

And bottom line, is I am not talking about giving a team discount, Terry clearly doesn't roll like that, but just being fair where the team isn't held over a barrell by Terry. In other words, not only does Terry clearly not give a crap about helping the team as to keeping other players, etc but is also going the opposite extreme where he doesn't care how his "feelings" effect the roster in a negative way -- whether its not showing up to camp or pushing the FO for an overpay and damn the consequences of how it effects the rest of the roster.

It sounds like you fully agree. 🙂

No matter the agent’s tack, he is not holding Terry hostage. Terry is wittingly a part of the scheme.

 

[skinsinparadise]

It sounds like you fully agree. 🙂

No matter the agent’s tack, he is not holding Terry hostage. Terry is wittingly a part of the scheme.

No doubt but I do think the agent can likely do a better job at containing Terry but clearly he has no interest in doing so. But yeah I don't absolve Terry from this.

 

[NickyJ]

I wouldn't read too much into Sutton's "help the team" statements. Maybe it was all about helping the team, or maybe it's failing to get more, settling for the team's offer and putting a positive sin on it, and the team not feeling like stirring the pot and saying "Actually, you really aren't worth that much to us". Unless it's a player like Tom Brady taking a clear discount, it's hard to say. But I wouldn't use it as a measure of how team-oriented Terry is.

 

[Conn]

I think that's semantics. Schefter isn't going to go on a national TV show and pontificate about something he doesn't know. I'd bet all the money in my front left pocket the team told him, and probably said "don't say we told you but say you know."

Galdi and Sheehan both said they believe this came from the team directly.

Nobody else would give Schefter that information, and he's not going to guess about it.

I’m sure there’s a very high chance you’re right (as well as Galdi and Sheehan), I’m simply saying that by phrasing it like that he’s leaving room in ways he doesn’t usually for a “report”. I see Schefter report a lot of things, that was a purposeful phrasing, which is just more information for us. It’s a technicality to us but it does mean the team is not trying to overtly hammer Terry in the media, they’re keeping some distance from it but sending a message

 

[skinsinparadise]

I wouldn't read too much into Sutton's "help the team" statements. Maybe it was all about helping the team, or maybe it's failing to get more, settling for the team's offer and putting a positive sin on it, and the team not feeling like stirring the pot and saying "Actually, you really aren't worth that much to us". Unless it's a player like Tom Brady taking a clear discount, it's hard to say. But I wouldn't use it as a measure of how team-oriented Terry is.

I am no basing it on Sutton alone. I've commented about other players who have done the same and posted some of their comments on it days before the Sutton stuff.

I am not expecting Terry to sacrifice for the team. But for two contracts in a row, from what I've heard, he doesn't budge, he holds out and pouts when he doesn't get what he wants -- and the first time that FO felt it was an overpay but Dan insisted to get it done and he needed a PR win. Now we are going through rodeo two of this. I heard Bram said the other day that Ron had voiced some pessimism at some point in the prior negotiations. I don't recall that. But i do recall a reporter saying recently the previous negotiations hit a similar impasse but Dan resolved it by telling the FO to give in.

Terry's actions and comments alone come off all about him, as I explained. And look I am sure most players feel the same way about their own situation. And that's fine.

But if Terry touts himself again as being special as to how his actions deserve compensation because of how good a solidier he is -- it turns me off a little now considering he's a bit all the top with how he approaches contracts. No every player holds out. Not every player bashes the team. Not every player pushes for basically an overpay (I know he doesn't per se think it is), not every player doesn't mention that they'd like to work out something that benefits all parties and help the team win.

It minimizes to me the idea that Terry is all about the team. And my point isn't he needs to be all about the team. But if he is going to sell himself as that including talking about himself in third person as if the persona is a bit larger than life for all the leadership-team stuff he's about -- speaking for myself it has a disclaimer on it now.

For me with Sutton its not so much whether he sincerely gave a discount or not. But that he went through the trouble of explaining how he wants this team to win and be able to keep other players. It's at least on Sutton's mind. With Terry, everything is about Terry. Does the team appreciate him? Do they see Terry the way Terry sees himself? He sees what they pay him as a sign that the team believes Terry is just as good or better than the elite WRS? It feels like we got Terry on the couch and its about him being validated.

That's fine but for a dude who sells himself as a "we" team guy -- he doesn't rock that way in his negotiations, not a whit from what I can tell so far. Not as to his actions. Not as to his rhetoric.