The 2025 Free Agency Thread

Sheldon day can be signed for much less, and I would resign him. Does not replace the need for Poona Ford
 
We all agree we need a DT and an edge that assist in the rush and versus the run. Go Edge early and DT later in the draft.
What do you think of adding a talented piece like Isiah Simmons to our S/LB group? The dude is a stud defensive play maker that feels like DQ and Whitt would absolutely love.
 
DWinzit said:
We all agree we need a DT and an edge that assist in the rush and versus the run. Go Edge early and DT later in the draft.
What do you think of adding a talented piece like Isiah Simmons to our S/LB group? The dude is a stud defensive play maker that feels like DQ and Whitt would absolutely love.
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Wasn't Isaiah a FA last year, too? Bad PFF scores last year but I didn't pay enough attention to have a strong opinion on him. I recall the college player but he's not been nearly the same in the pros.

I don't think its crazy for them to do DE and DT and in the first two rounds. Should be interesting. I get the depth is better at DT. But lets say they wait until the 2nd round, maybe someone like Norman-Lott is staring at them or Alfred Collins on and on. If they couldn't resist Johnny Newton last year coming off of the injury and without arguably it being a need. Wonder if they can resist arguaby stronger prospects who are healthy in a year where its more of a need -- where they've watched some of their division rivals have wrecking balls at that spot. J. Carter is obviously a beast. Ditto Lawrence with the Giants. And Osa as a 3 technique is better than anyone we have.
 
SilentThreat said:
Just a couple theories. This is not me evaluating film, just speaking from experience as to how ILB is not the 'cause'

1. Interior DL is tasked with 'eating' interior blocks, opening holes for ILB to attack. If the DL does not effectively do this, the ILB gets lost in the wash and is unable to attack the interior run gaps, or read and react.
2. Liability as DE. If the DE / Edge is not containing, then the ILB by default is reacting to 'missed' assignments. If the DE is not effective in contain, or worse yet (see Brian Orakpo) pass rushing themselves up field creating a massive hole between the DE and DT, then they remove themselves from the play, meaning the OG can now hit the next level and take on the ILB that is attempting to fill that hole.
3. Zone Coverage. ILB is generally tasked with either a zone in the middle of the field, or a flat responsibility. When you have a guy like Bobby Wagner, who is not elite regarding speed anymore, if you find an alignment that is forcing him to cover the flat, the middle gap of the field is open as he's got to sell out to get to the sidelines. If he's able to diagnose, a lot of the time, guys like Barkley are already on the 2nd level and Wags is making a tackle, but it's 5 - 7 yards down field.


There's no single answer. It's the same reason we can have one of the worst O-line's in football, but one of the best LTs (Trent Williams). Defensive scheme is 3 levels, and if 1 of those 3 levels is not up to par, the offense is going to figure out how to take advantage of that. OCs are doing things with play calling to manipulate eye levels as a form of 'blocking.' No different than the QB 'looking off' a safety, they are running motion / blocking schemes, to cause the LBs to 'go' where they want them to, to then create an opening.
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Well said, thanks for this. I have no doubt the play of others have hindered the LBs. But after hearing Payne and Allen point out they were doubled most all game I went back and confirmed this was the case. So if the DTs are taking up 4 blockers how can there not be room for LBs to be making plays?
 
Logan Paulsen talked some about the run stopping failures. Interestingly, while he didn't point out Joe Whitt and the scheme directly he did so indirectly by more or less saying rewatching these games this defensive isn't assignment sound. That is, they aren't filling the gaps properly and in a smart way. And he seemed to blame the whole D line for that. One guy misaligned with the other guy hence a gap opened.

D. Fowler attacking the wrong gap for example for the Barkley big run against us in the playoffs, and not only did he hit the wrong gap but he stumbled and knocked out Wagner out of the play in doing so.

So it feels like at least according to his theory is the coordination between the D lineman is poor.

I've not rewatched the games with coaches tape which I've done sometimes in the past. I might have time to do so soon. But in general I wonder about Whitt some. For those film junkies who do rewatch our games, I can't recall anyone complementing this team's scheme. The best i hear about this defense is they play hard, which is good. But I am gathering hard but not that smart.

When Whitt arrived, the talk was how they schemed up picks and turnovers. Apparently that didn't carry over here. So it might have been Dallas' players not the scheme or it might have been Dallas' touted secondary coach.
 
skinsinparadise said:
Logan Paulsen talked some about the run stopping failures. Interestingly, while he didn't point out Joe Whitt and the scheme directly he did so indirectly by more or less saying rewatching these games this defensive isn't assignment sound. That is, they aren't filling the gaps properly and in a smart way. And he seemed to blame the whole D line for that. One guy misaligned with the other guy hence a gap opened.

D. Fowler attacking the wrong gap for example for the Barkley big run against us in the playoffs, and not only did he hit the wrong gap but he stumbled and knocked out Wagner out of the play in doing so.

So it feels like at least according to his theory is the coordination between the D lineman is poor.

I've not rewatched the games with coaches tape which I've done sometimes in the past. I might have time to do so soon. But in general I wonder about Whitt some. For those film junkies who do rewatch our games, I can't recall anyone complementing this team's scheme. The best i hear about this defense is they play hard, which is good. But I am gathering hard but not that smart.

When Whitt arrived, the talk was how they schemed up picks and turnovers. Apparently that didn't carry over here. So it might have been Dallas' players not the scheme or it might have been Dallas' touted secondary coach.
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I wonder how much the D in Dallas had to do with DQ, presumably he has stepped back from the D and has essentially turned the D over to Whitt?
 
I believe it had more to do with the fact that Dallas had better talent at D line and corner than scheme.
 
Chris 44 said:
I wonder how much the D in Dallas had to do with DQ, presumably he has stepped back from the D and has essentially turned the D over to Whitt?
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DQ ran the defense, so it was his baby, so much of it I presume had to do with him. I get the vibe he's hands off with the current defense. i am not saying Whitt isn't good at his job. I got no idea. But I am with Sheehan when he says the defensive run game shouldn't have been this bad considering the talent.

The defense doesn't turn the ball over. It can't stop the run. And it generally plays its worse in big moments late in the game.

Payne-Allen in theory were good against the run in the past. Chinn is a good run stopper at SS. Wagner is one of the best against the run. Yes, their DE's are bad at setting the edge. But should it be this level of a debacle?

The offense overachieved considering the talent -- much of it thanks to Daniels. The defense could use upgrades, don't get me wrong, but I don't see it as an overacheiving unit to say the least.
 
My gut is not to chase Landry but interesting to see how many others are put on the market

 
I get the point but in a stacked draft for edge, DT, RB, am not dying to get rid of draft capital. I'd do it for Garrett because he's a freak. Landry is really good but no freak. Instead of paying big money and draft capital for an ex-Boston College player -- why not a younger-cheaper Boston College edge with similar pedigree in this draft like Ezeiruaka

 
2/$35M nonguaranteed for a player of Landry’s caliber is a steal. If he were released, I think he’d be looking at $20M-$25M a year in ACV.

What’s interesting with him is he had a good PFF grade as a run defender but a bad one as a pass rusher despite having 9 sacks last year

I wouldn’t want to give up meaningful draft capital for him though
 
skinsinparadise said:
DQ ran the defense, so it was his baby, so much of it I presume had to do with him. I get the vibe he's hands off with the current defense. i am not saying Whitt isn't good at his job. I got no idea. But I am with Sheehan when he says the defensive run game shouldn't have been this bad considering the talent.

The defense doesn't turn the ball over. It can't stop the run. And it generally plays its worse in big moments late in the game.

Payne-Allen in theory were good against the run in the past. Chinn is a good run stopper at SS. Wagner is one of the best against the run. Yes, their DE's are bad at setting the edge. But should it be this level of a debacle?

The offense overachieved considering the talent -- much of it thanks to Daniels. The defense could use upgrades, don't get me wrong, but I don't see it as an overacheiving unit to say the least.
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I have been thinking along these lines too. I want to think Whitt is awesome, because watching him talk, communicate - he seems likable and he seems like he can communicate well. Easy guy to root for, long career coaching, not bad units in general.

However - while I agree that the defensive personnel success may not have lined up, I do wonder about some individuals not being very coachable.

I think Fowler did what you described on more than one occasion. I think he showed up on stat sheets with the 10+ sacks and those are big plays, but I also think he showed up in a negative way too with these kinds of plays like you described in another post; he went in the wrong gap and took Wagner out of the play. The Eagles said they planned something around a thing they specifically saw in the D; unclear if that worked or if this was some kind of foible, but regardless that aspect is what sprung Barkley out 10-15 yards until he broke tackles and then was gone. It wasn't a guaranteed TD until he broke those tackles,, but the big gain guarantee came when Fowler took Wagner out.

I don't think that was isolated in the season. Mistakes can happen, but it is up to the coaches to decide when these mistakes are costly enough to replace (St. Juste). It's also up to the coaches, you hope, to make great effort to fix these mistakes. Is this a Whitt problem (scheme), a DLine coach problem (coaching technique), a personnel problem (players).... or what kind of mix/solution can be applied here?

I have similar questions for OL too.
 
method man said:
I think you are underrating locale. There are a lot of players in the league from the DMV. We benefitted from this in the 2020 offseason (the one good FA period Ron had) as it helped us get Logan Thomas, Kendall Fuller, Ronald Darby and others I am not recalling
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I'm hoping we sign Ty Johnson, local guy, very underated running back.
 
SkinsNumberOne said:
I have been thinking along these lines too. I want to think Whitt is awesome, because watching him talk, communicate - he seems likable and he seems like he can communicate well. Easy guy to root for, long career coaching, not bad units in general.

However - while I agree that the defensive personnel success may not have lined up, I do wonder about some individuals not being very coachable.

I think Fowler did what you described on more than one occasion. I think he showed up on stat sheets with the 10+ sacks and those are big plays, but I also think he showed up in a negative way too with these kinds of plays like you described in another post; he went in the wrong gap and took Wagner out of the play. The Eagles said they planned something around a thing they specifically saw in the D; unclear if that worked or if this was some kind of foible, but regardless that aspect is what sprung Barkley out 10-15 yards until he broke tackles and then was gone. It wasn't a guaranteed TD until he broke those tackles,, but the big gain guarantee came when Fowler took Wagner out.

I don't think that was isolated in the season. Mistakes can happen, but it is up to the coaches to decide when these mistakes are costly enough to replace (St. Juste). It's also up to the coaches, you hope, to make great effort to fix these mistakes. Is this a Whitt problem (scheme), a DLine coach problem (coaching technique), a personnel problem (players).... or what kind of mix/solution can be applied here?

I have similar questions for OL too.
Click to expand...

I don't know if Whitt is part of the problem. I get he has earned some good will because he comes off like a super nice guy and kills his press conferences. But i also wonder about it, too.

As clutch as this offense has been, the defense was atrocious in key moments of the game. Part of Jayden's heriocs was rallying after the defense gave up big scores. And the defense was carved up by plenty of "meh" Qbs.

As much as the defense needs better edge setters -- it was still an underpeforming defense against the run. Payne and Allen sucking against the run was a new thing. Scheme oriented? Maybe. But in short, Logan pointing out that the defense isn't assignment sound against the run and that's a big part of the issue -- feels like that at least has something to do with scheme.

The defense doesn't create turnovers. Plays its worse in big moments of the games. And was beyond a joke against the run. Does Joe Whitt have nothing to do with any of it? Maybe. But its at least on the table for me that he might not be some defensive wiz. Like I said I can't recall one NFL film buff type praising the creativity or anything on this defense as far as the scheme goes.
 
skinsinparadise said:
I don't know if Whitt is part of the problem. I get he has earned some good will because he comes off like a super nice guy and kills his press conferences. But i also wonder about it, too.

As clutch as this offense has been, the defense was atrocious in key moments of the game. Part of Jayden's heriocs was rallying after the defense gave up big scores. And the defense was carved up by plenty of "meh" Qbs.

As much as the defense needs better edge setters -- it was still an underpeforming defense against the run. Payne and Allen sucking against the run was a new thing. Scheme oriented? Maybe. But in short, Logan pointing out that the defense isn't assignment sound against the run and that's a big part of the issue -- feels like that at least has something to do with scheme.

The defense doesn't create turnovers. Plays its worse in big moments of the games. And was beyond a joke against the run. Does Joe Whitt have nothing to do with any of it? Maybe. But its at least on the table for me that he might not be some defensive wiz. Like I said I can't recall one NFL film buff type praising the creativity or anything on this defense as far as the scheme goes.
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I think there weren't many people congratulating scheme because the results weren't there.

That doesn't necessarily mean scheme is at fault.

If players are in positions to make plays, scheme should generally be "ok" at least.

If players are not making the "small" correct decisions (like the right move to get push into the QB, the right gap to fill in certain alignment), I think that would likely be more of the position coach than the coordinator. I mean, it depends - but I think in many cases those kinds of things end up being more on the position coach.

I am not absolving Joe Whitt even in that case though. I feel like I saw some year-long problems that were unaddressed. However: I also feel like I saw Payne and Allen not winning individual battles. I don't think that is a coaching thing at that point at all. In terms of shooting gaps, that would typically be a coaching thing unless you have some guys who are undisciplined. One of my problems with Fowler is that he seemed a bit like 2020 Chase Young to me at times. I may be wrong, but I think the team is ready to let him walk this year and that may be part of the reason.

From our perspective it's really hard to judge who is at fault of course, but I totally agree with you that we don't necessarily talk about coaching enough. The best HCs are the ones who are willing to take a step back and have hard conversations with coordinators and on-down (position coaches) when performance isn't good enough, and not just jump to blaming players. It's one of the really horrible parts of seeing your HC bring in buddies; you know accountability is likely going to be very slow moving.
 
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skinsinparadise said:
I don't know if Whitt is part of the problem. I get he has earned some good will because he comes off like a super nice guy and kills his press conferences. But i also wonder about it, too.

As clutch as this offense has been, the defense was atrocious in key moments of the game. Part of Jayden's heriocs was rallying after the defense gave up big scores. And the defense was carved up by plenty of "meh" Qbs.

As much as the defense needs better edge setters -- it was still an underpeforming defense against the run. Payne and Allen sucking against the run was a new thing. Scheme oriented? Maybe. But in short, Logan pointing out that the defense isn't assignment sound against the run and that's a big part of the issue -- feels like that at least has something to do with scheme.

The defense doesn't create turnovers. Plays its worse in big moments of the games. And was beyond a joke against the run. Does Joe Whitt have nothing to do with any of it? Maybe. But its at least on the table for me that he might not be some defensive wiz. Like I said I can't recall one NFL film buff type praising the creativity or anything on this defense as far as the scheme goes.
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Great discussion.

I worried about tackling not being discussed in any of the early intro meetings with Whitt or there after. It was about hitting hard and turnovers. Nothing about actual tackling just hits big hits. No wrapping up, no emphasis on the tackle. No discussions on assignments, just attacking.

I am hoping the past year allows DQ and AP to open their eyes to these issues that everyone else sees. Cinch up the run defense with the right players, not just ones that played for you in the past. I am okay not seeing any more Cowboy defenders in Washington.
 
skinsinparadise said:
Logan Paulsen talked some about the run stopping failures. Interestingly, while he didn't point out Joe Whitt and the scheme directly he did so indirectly by more or less saying rewatching these games this defensive isn't assignment sound. That is, they aren't filling the gaps properly and in a smart way. And he seemed to blame the whole D line for that. One guy misaligned with the other guy hence a gap opened.

D. Fowler attacking the wrong gap for example for the Barkley big run against us in the playoffs, and not only did he hit the wrong gap but he stumbled and knocked out Wagner out of the play in doing so.

So it feels like at least according to his theory is the coordination between the D lineman is poor.

I've not rewatched the games with coaches tape which I've done sometimes in the past. I might have time to do so soon. But in general I wonder about Whitt some. For those film junkies who do rewatch our games, I can't recall anyone complementing this team's scheme. The best i hear about this defense is they play hard, which is good. But I am gathering hard but not that smart.

When Whitt arrived, the talk was how they schemed up picks and turnovers. Apparently that didn't carry over here. So it might have been Dallas' players not the scheme or it might have been Dallas' touted secondary coach.
Click to expand...

I know Dan Quinn has run a hybrid 1 gap/2 gap defense in the past. Here the 3 tech (Allen/Newton) and the hybrid end/LB (normally Fowler) played 1 gap. The 1 tech (Payne/Day) and the big DE (Armstrong) played 2 gap. We mixed it up but this was the trend in base D at least. We’d get more 1gap focused in obvious passing downs.

I think a big part of our weakness against the run was the DEs not being great at setting an edge. Fowler played well against the pass but struggled physically against the run and Armstrong was more solid but just isn’t a top tier end. I would try to bring Fowler back and try to upgrade the DE spot opposite him. Allen will not be here so Newton steps up and it’s a deep draft at DT to find someone who can play 3 tech to rotate with him.
 
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