Taylor Heinicke Discussion

Yeah, that was my thought too. No clue.
 
So essentially Turner regardless of the defense thinks no matter what he's called it'll work, that's some dip shittery to me.
 
I don’t know about that. Gibbs was part of the Air Coryell tree and he definitely believed in audibles.

Norv, on the other hand, was incredibly rigid and inflexible. He believed in scheme over everything. It drove me crazy.
 
Gibbs is also the guy who recognized 5 weeks into his first year as HC that he was doing WASN'T working and retooled the offense to fit the skills of his players and the demands of the NFC East.
 
SkinsOrlando said:
So essentially Turner regardless of the defense thinks no matter what he's called it'll work, that's some dip shittery to me.
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Now you know why players say they knew what was coming. It’s predictable with no variations allowed.
 
You guys are very tough on Turner. I get it based on our historic gripes with his offenses but as I’ve said he performed miracles with Alex Smith and Taylor - we give him zero credit for the positive. This season he has a ‘work in progress’ QB (and who knows if he even wanted Wentz?) and has him behind a line that’s one of the worst in the league.

I know all the negatives but again, he’s not been set up for success. He’s probably had as many barriers put in front of him as any OC in the league. We are quick to point that out for players but pay scant attention to what coaches have to work with.
 
I'm pretty shocked by your defense of him. I can't think of one game where I went "Turner called a good game". Not even great, but just good would be enough.

Our 3rd down conversion rate is a joke...JD only comes in on 3rd down pretty much. He has 19 carries and 24 receptions for the season...that's all play calling there.
 
Boone said:
You guys are very tough on Turner. I get it based on our historic gripes with his offenses but as I’ve said he performed miracles with Alex Smith and Taylor - we give him zero credit for the positive. This season he has a ‘work in progress’ QB (and who knows if he even wanted Wentz?) and has him behind a line that’s one of the worst in the league.

I know all the negatives but again, he’s not been set up for success. He’s probably had as many barriers put in front of him as any OC in the league. We are quick to point that out for players but pay scant attention to what coaches have to work with.
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Yeah, Boone, I get it. He has been dealt a lousy hand as an OC. Fair.

My beef is that he IS. NOT. ADAPTING.

He comes out week in, week out and shows us the same mentality of "what we do works" that got his Dad fired here. His offense shows up for a total of 2 Quarters a game max. He can't seem to make adjustments except at Halftime. And he can't seem to sustain the things that work vs the things he really wants to do for more than a couple of weeks.

He is, from what I can tell, not a great coach in that he cannot adjust the system to the talents of players he has so he continues to force square pegs into round holes.
 
MikefromOH said:
I'm pretty shocked by your defense of him. I can't think of one game where I went "Turner called a good game". Not even great, but just good would be enough.

Our 3rd down conversion rate is a joke...JD only comes in on 3rd down pretty much. He has 19 carries and 24 receptions for the season...that's all play calling there.
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I see many of the same things you guys do and
I have no problem with the criticism as Ive been critical myself.

It’s never only about playcalling though.

And it’s always more complicated than we want to believe it is.
 
burgold said:
Haskins and Alex Smith or anyone really?
RGIII vs Cousins?
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Disagree. Nobody was sure that Smith was going to play again after his horrible leg injury. Therefore, there was no way to say he was definitely better than Haskins back in 2020, before Smith returned.

And Cousins was also underwhelming back in 2013 and 2014 when he was fighting RGIII and Colt McCoy for the starting job. In truth, McCoy was the best of the 3 of them.
 
MikefromOH said:
Can't lie, after last night's performance I am about 3/4 of the way out on Wentz. We paid too much and gave up too much to have a QB who throws for 99 yards in primetime. I can say he didn't fumble or throw picks this game, but he damn sure tried to throw two in a row on the final drive.

He holds the ball too long
He has always been hurt in one form or another his entire career
He throws terrible picks
He isn't calling audibles even when he knows he should.

We could have this kind of showing from Taylor or a number of backups for way cheaper.
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You're missing one of Wentz's biggest shortcomings -- his accuracy flat-out sucks.

He killed 3 drives all by himself in the first half last night, by making horrible short throws on first or second down.

He is not good enough to succeed in 3rd and long situations. He has no margin of error. Therefore, when he screws up on first or second down, the drive is over.
 
Boone said:
You guys are very tough on Turner. I get it based on our historic gripes with his offenses but as I’ve said he performed miracles with Alex Smith and Taylor - we give him zero credit for the positive. This season he has a ‘work in progress’ QB (and who knows if he even wanted Wentz?) and has him behind a line that’s one of the worst in the league.

I know all the negatives but again, he’s not been set up for success. He’s probably had as many barriers put in front of him as any OC in the league. We are quick to point that out for players but pay scant attention to what coaches have to work with.
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Turner is a convenient scapegoat for them. None of these guys want to admit that they were 100% wrong when they thought Wentz would be an upgrade over Heinicke.

That's what it boils down to -- these dudes don't want to admit that they were categorically wrong about Wentz. So blame Turner or the offensive line instead.
 
That misses my point. It's not one variable. It rarely is one variable. Multiple issues involved in the equation and that's nearly a universal aspect of performance.

Ever hear of Lean Six Sigma? It's not your people. It's your processes.
 
MikefromOH said:
I'm pretty shocked by your defense of him. I can't think of one game where I went "Turner called a good game". Not even great, but just good would be enough.

Our 3rd down conversion rate is a joke...JD only comes in on 3rd down pretty much. He has 19 carries and 24 receptions for the season...that's all play calling there.
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Like I said earlier....we wouldn't have so many 3rd and long situations if Wentz made better throws on first and second down.

Wentz cannot succeed on 3rd and long. He simply sucks too much.
 
Boone said:
That misses my point. It's not one variable. It rarely is one variable. Multiple issues involved in the equation and that's nearly a universal aspect of performance.

Ever hear of Lean Six Sigma? It's not your people. It's your processes.
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This is kind of like self mutilation. You know he won't change and will continue to be the way he is, but it's worth a good laugh now and then.
 
Theismann To HOF said:
Disagree. Nobody was sure that Smith was going to play again after his horrible leg injury. Therefore, there was no way to say he was definitely better than Haskins back in 2020, before Smith returned.

And Cousins was also underwhelming back in 2013 and 2014 when he was fighting RGIII and Colt McCoy for the starting job. In truth, McCoy was the best of the 3 of them.
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Okay, Sonny and Billy
 
burgold said:
Okay, Sonny and Billy
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That was so long ago. And the fact is that Washington won more with Kilmer than with Jurgensen. Jurgensen was nearing the end of his career in the early 1970s and he was also injured during the 1972 Super Bowl season.

The disparity between Jurgensen and Kilmer was not nearly as great as the disparity between Heinicke and Wentz.
 
You can't see the forest past the trees.

He's giving you examples and all you want to do is argue. It's quite interesting to watch, but nobody takes it seriously.
 
MikefromOH said:
You can't see the forest past the trees.

He's giving you examples and all you want to do is argue. It's quite interesting to watch, but nobody takes it seriously.
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These are not clear examples. As I explained. Why should I just agree with him if I think he's wrong?

What is clear is that Heinicke is 10 times better than worthless Wentz.
 
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