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Still have not come to terms with the Murphy pick
- Thread starter Fear The Spear
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Fear, are you talking about 5th round prospect Justin Britt? McD5 made a post earlier eluding to why we didnt spend a 2nd rounder on him and that was literally the only name i've seen dropped in this thread as an available O-Lineman.
That's one.
It might be illuminating to look at first and second round linemen picked across the league over the last say, 10 years. I'd be curious to see what percentage started from day one. And on what kind of teams.
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Yes, and it amazes me how so many people put so much weight and significance into a “draft projection”, as if they were gospel, etched in stone, when they are merely opinions, flawed, over-rated, and so frequently proven to be wrong.
God forbid a team draft a player in the 2nd round, who proves to be 2nd-round-worthy, despite some outsider saying he is only worth a 4th rounder.
If the facts and reality is that a player proves to be worth a 2nd rounder, but an opinion states he is only worth a 4th or 5th, why continue to trump facts/reality, with opinion ? We don't do that in any other scenario with opinions.
I agree, and hope to find the time to "illuminate" myself !
Ok, and we equally dont know if he's 2nd round worthy yet.. He might not have fit here. He might be 2nd round worthy to a team with a specific scheme, but not that valuable to one that runs a different scheme. This whole thread is based on how you're not sold on an if, yet your whole argument is based on what if. You're right, draft predictions are just those, predictions. Alfred Morris being a perfect example. He got passed on by what, 200 picks, yet he's proven this far to be a top 5 back in the league? Sometimes teams hit, sometimes they miss, but there are a lot of people making a hell of a lot more money then we are making those decisions. The entire draft is based on opinion.
This team is building for the future. We have 2 hand picked O-Lineman developing. Moses and Long. We're not expected to contend this year, so why not take BPA for the long run? Moses and Long could develop to anchor our right side for the next 10 years. Who's to say they arent worth more value to the Redskins then they are to other teams?
LoL, ok so it's public knowledge that our FO doesn't value the RT position? Don't seem to remember that press release. Gruden had his 1st draft as an NFL HC. Plus you want to trade a draft pick away? Haven't fans been screaming about trading away the future for quite some time now? We did draft offensive lineman.. like i said, 2 of them in the 3rd round... and were, oh heres a novel idea, home growing them. In 3 years if we have not addressed the O-line long term, I'll absolutely agree with you. But I'm not willing to dismiss the Murphy pick as a mistake yet.
But i thought Shanny was where the buck stopped last year??? he's gone.... so how can you lump this new regime into that same thought process... While Shanny was here, Allen was a dog and pony coordinator. Apparently Shanny controlled EVERYTHING. We then picked up 2 O-linemen in FA... one of which is gone, the other one starting on sundays.... Drafted 2 guys in the 3rd round, one a G, the other a T, and were 1 game into a new system. I agree... it needs to be addressed. But there might be a guy they are targeting RD 1 of the draft next year. Or they want to see what they can get out of Moses. He was supposed to be a top level talent who happened to fall to us in the 3rd. Again. Not saying were set by any means, but we have to stop carrying the past around with us. We make fun of Cowboys fans when they do it. We shouldnt do it positive or negative. As far as I can tell, this is year 1 of this FO.
Yeah, and a lot of that was Vinny.... and he's gone. In comes Allen along with Shanny... Football operations run through Shanny. This Allen now. Allen along with a brand new HC. THIS is year 1.
thesubmittedone
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I don't think the problem has been this FO not spending resources to get Olinemen... the problem has been the lack of development and/or failure to produce of the ones we do get. And that salary cap penalty killed our ability to upgrade there via FA.
I mean, since Shanny came on board we spent a lot of resources on the Oline. In 2010, the 4th overall pick (Trent Williams) was spent on a LT. We traded our 4th round pick for Jamal Brown. We spent 7th round picks on Selvish Capers and Eric Cook. Don't know how many more picks you could use there for Oline.
In 2011 we only spent a 7th on one (Maurice Hurt), which you could look at that as a year we gimped at that position in the draft. However, we re-signed Jamal Brown to a sizable contract and brought in Sean Locklear to back him up in FA. We brought in Chris Chester through FA as well. So that's a total of three linemen through FA, two of which were starters on their previous teams and were expected to be upgrades. So, again, not sure how much more should've been done.
Now we enter the cap penalty phase.
In 2012, we used our 1st rounder on Robert and of course we didn't have a 2nd because that was part of the deal to get him. So what did we do on our next pick in the 3rd? Pick a Guard (Ribs). We took another guard (Gettis) in the 5th. To top it off, we took a Tackle (Compton) in the 6th. That's a considerable chunk of the draft going to one position group.
In 2013, we didn't use any draft picks on Olinemen. Probably a mistake, but I'd say we've spent a significant amount of resources at this point on the line and were expecting some of our previous draft picks to produce. We also had major needs in the secondary and we used 3 of our picks there alone. Leribeus was supposed to take a starting job going into the year, in particular, but then he came in overweight and destroyed our plans.
Now, here we are in 2014 and the salary cap penalty is over. We brought in Lauvao and spent two third rounders on a Tackle and Guard (Moses and Long).
I'd be willing to say that we've spent more resources in the last 4 years on Olinemen than any other team in the NFL. Our problem isn't the focus on the position, it's the execution. I believe a huge part of that was the cap penalty and the fact that we were missing two 1sts and a 2nd the last three drafts, though, so I can't really be too mad about our FO on it. It's tough to say "we don't spend high picks on Oline" when we don't really have them. I guess we could've taken Oline instead of Amerson/Murphy the last two years in the 2nd round, but it's not that significant of a difference for me considering we used 3rd rounders on them instead in 2012 and this year.
I mean, since Shanny came on board we spent a lot of resources on the Oline. In 2010, the 4th overall pick (Trent Williams) was spent on a LT. We traded our 4th round pick for Jamal Brown. We spent 7th round picks on Selvish Capers and Eric Cook. Don't know how many more picks you could use there for Oline.
In 2011 we only spent a 7th on one (Maurice Hurt), which you could look at that as a year we gimped at that position in the draft. However, we re-signed Jamal Brown to a sizable contract and brought in Sean Locklear to back him up in FA. We brought in Chris Chester through FA as well. So that's a total of three linemen through FA, two of which were starters on their previous teams and were expected to be upgrades. So, again, not sure how much more should've been done.
Now we enter the cap penalty phase.
In 2012, we used our 1st rounder on Robert and of course we didn't have a 2nd because that was part of the deal to get him. So what did we do on our next pick in the 3rd? Pick a Guard (Ribs). We took another guard (Gettis) in the 5th. To top it off, we took a Tackle (Compton) in the 6th. That's a considerable chunk of the draft going to one position group.
In 2013, we didn't use any draft picks on Olinemen. Probably a mistake, but I'd say we've spent a significant amount of resources at this point on the line and were expecting some of our previous draft picks to produce. We also had major needs in the secondary and we used 3 of our picks there alone. Leribeus was supposed to take a starting job going into the year, in particular, but then he came in overweight and destroyed our plans.
Now, here we are in 2014 and the salary cap penalty is over. We brought in Lauvao and spent two third rounders on a Tackle and Guard (Moses and Long).
I'd be willing to say that we've spent more resources in the last 4 years on Olinemen than any other team in the NFL. Our problem isn't the focus on the position, it's the execution. I believe a huge part of that was the cap penalty and the fact that we were missing two 1sts and a 2nd the last three drafts, though, so I can't really be too mad about our FO on it. It's tough to say "we don't spend high picks on Oline" when we don't really have them. I guess we could've taken Oline instead of Amerson/Murphy the last two years in the 2nd round, but it's not that significant of a difference for me considering we used 3rd rounders on them instead in 2012 and this year.
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thesubmittedone
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I'm a little unwilling to call Ribs and Compton whiffs. In fact, a tackle you took in the 6th round lasting for 3 years as your main swing tackle is pretty good value, even if he never starts. Ribs seems like the furthest along out of the Guards right now according to Gruden's comments and the fact that he's the one they activated over everyone else. I get that he was a huge disappointment last year and still didn't outright win the job this year, but he is certainly talented and they're keeping him around for a reason. I'm not sure the job really was open, anyway. Which is what strikes me as the problem. Looks like Chester/Polombus were set from the start and wouldn't lose their jobs unless they completely failed. That shouldn't have been the case.
so who gets fired?
ok, so... the F.O. isnt accountable now?
MikeSr619
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Seriously, it must make you miserable to root for this doomed team. This isn't an attack on your fan hood or questioning if you are a fan...but you hate the organization and think we're now doomed.
Do you usually walk away from games when it's bad?
Do you usually walk away from games when it's bad?
Sorry, the whole point I was getting at was the last 2 years have to be forgotten when looking at this teams development. I know that sound crazy, but it's the truth. For the last 2 years, we didnt have development. IMHO, Shanny seriously messed up Griffin's development year 1 because of the overwhelming use of the read option. I also am not going to compain. I was a HUGE Shanny supporter up til he benched Griff for Cousins.
We've shot ourselves in the foot in regards to some aspect of the team, but the decisions makers in place now are not the same ones that were in place 12 months ago. I want to give this group a shot. I think we're going in the right direction and the future is what's in the front of their mind.
thesubmittedone
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Wasn't he the only guard they activated last week? You think they'd do that just to justify the pick? If someone went down during the game, he'd be the first guy in. I don't know, tr1. I'm with you in that we need to see a lot more improvement from this Oline if we're going anywhere as a team, but I think you might be taking it too far when it comes to your perspective on the Oline.
Who knows, maybe we'll get a pleasant surprise today, God willing, and everyone looks sharper. Would be so soothing to all of our sore eyes.
I'm not going to judge you for your frustration. I get it. I'm exhausted as a Skins fan as well. And, like you said, the excuses made for Haslett and the scouts who stayed on were frankly silly for me... they're just as culpable for any issues we still have as Shanahan is/was. I never bought into that whole "evil villain" thing ruling the kingdom they had going against Mike. But let's give these guys a chance. I know, we've done that so many times for so long now... but it's all we can do, really. We have nothing else.
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Everything about Murphy coming out of college was he had a huge motor. So who do you get to take over one of the best middle Linebackers ever in London Fletcher? Someone who has a very high motor and can play sideline to sideline. They need time to evaluate Moses and Murphy, but I think that just 1 regular season game is nowhere near enough. Also, I do not think Jay Gruden is the guy who will hold on to picks just so he does not have to admit he is wrong. The guy is blunt and calls it like it is. So he would say "Hey we missed the boat on these picks".
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