SOE: A New Home For RG3

[McD5]

Jay Gruden wants RGIII to succeed in the pocket. | SportsonEarth.com : Dan Pompei Article

We're trying something new in Washington this year. It's called coaching.

When was the last time we actually had a QB look better in their second year, than they did in their first?

We have had THE worst coaching staffs in the league since Gibbs 2 ended.

 

[Fear The Spear]

Gruden thinks the Redskins have formidable receiving weapons in wideouts Pierre Garcon, Josh Morgan and Santana Moss and tight ends Logan Paulsen and Fred Davis.

I don't see Gruden quoted anywhere on that. Did Gruden actually say and confirm he plans to bring back players like Morgan and Davis, or is the writer just assuming that ?

 

[McD5]

I don't see Gruden quoted anywhere on that. Did Gruden actually say and confirm he plans to bring back players like Morgan and Davis, or is the writer just assuming that ?

That's the writer. But I'm sure Gruden is going to be complimentary of all the players at first.

With that said, I'm sure he would have gotten a lot more out of Sleepy than we did last year.

 

[Elephant]

Jay Gruden wants RGIII to succeed in the pocket. | SportsonEarth.com : Dan Pompei Article

We're trying something new in Washington this year. It's called coaching.

When was the last time we actually had a QB look better in their second year, than they did in their first?

We have had THE worst coaching staffs in the league since Gibbs 2 ended.

Does the term sophomore slump mean anything to you? Not going to disagree about the coaching over the last 6 years, but never heard of a QB worse in his 2nd year? That is where the term sophomore slump originated.

 

[McD5]

I'm aware of a sophomore slump, but what exactly did Kyle teach RG3 in the last two years?

Did he teach him how to look off safeties? How to not stare down a receiver? How to read defenses at a pro level? I'm not sure any of those things were on display last season.

So sophomore slump aside, when was the last time we had a QB that looked better in year 3 than in year 2?

Jason Campbell? Maybe. Brunell was already a vet, so he didn't need to learn much. Brad Johnson? It's insane when you think about it. And about how far back in time we have to go.

And on a similar note, aside from Santana Moss, who is the last WR we ever developed? On most teams, players actually progress and look better in subsequent years. In DC....not so much. Especially on the offensive side of the ball.

 

[Elephant]

I'm aware of a sophomore slump, but what exactly did Kyle teach RG3 in the last two years?

Did he teach him how to look off safeties? How to not stare down a receiver? How to read defenses at a pro level? I'm not sure any of those things were on display last season.

So sophomore slump aside, when was the last time we had a QB that looked better in year 3 than in year 2?

Jason Campbell? Maybe. Brunell was already a vet, so he didn't need to learn much. Brad Johnson? It's insane when you think about it. And about how far back in time we have to go.

And on a similar note, aside from Santana Moss, who is the last WR we ever developed? On most teams, players actually progress and look better in subsequent years. In DC....not so much. Especially on the offensive side of the ball.

I get that McD5, but you asked a question about 2nd year QB's so I asked you directed you to the sophomore slump.

 

[Dik Shuttle]

I'm sure he would have gotten a lot more out of Sleepy than we did last year.

The only thing anyone is gonna get outta Davis for a while is gibberish and confusion. That man is bonkers and he stopped self-medicating. I wouldn't be surprised if he's on synthetics and gets even more flummoxed.

 

[SilentThreat]

I'm aware of a sophomore slump, but what exactly did Kyle teach RG3 in the last two years?

Did he teach him how to look off safeties? How to not stare down a receiver? How to read defenses at a pro level? I'm not sure any of those things were on display last season.

So sophomore slump aside, when was the last time we had a QB that looked better in year 3 than in year 2?

Jason Campbell? Maybe. Brunell was already a vet, so he didn't need to learn much. Brad Johnson? It's insane when you think about it. And about how far back in time we have to go.

And on a similar note, aside from Santana Moss, who is the last WR we ever developed? On most teams, players actually progress and look better in subsequent years. In DC....not so much. Especially on the offensive side of the ball.

Look, I'm excited about Gruden and look forward to having him teach Griff, but it's also not fair to completely blame his step back in his second season all on Kyle. The time spent teaching QBs to look off safeties and get comfortable with progressions is done in camp and preseason. Griffin had NONE of that time to work on these things with live fire because he was rehabbing. Its impossible to develop these parts of his game during the season when the week is used to institute game plans, and study film. Guys have a VERY limited amount of time in pads anymore during the season, so having live fire practices to work on the technical side of game cant happen during the season. This isn't to say we should have kept Kyle, I'm just saying he cant take a lot of the blame for Roberts down season.

 

[fansince62]

Does the term sophomore slump mean anything to you? Not going to disagree about the coaching over the last 6 years, but never heard of a QB worse in his 2nd year? That is where the term sophomore slump originated.

not picking on you EL...just using the post as a springboard for something that irks me.

- we all know Robert rushed back too quickly and everything else flowed out of that. so, yea, that's, IMO, his get out of jail free card.

Sophomore slump? I hate excuses. they are rationales for failure and accept status quo ante as acceptable. the whole point about excellence is not being "the norm."

 

[fansince62]

Look, I'm excited about Gruden and look forward to having him teach Griff, but it's also not fair to completely blame his step back in his second season all on Kyle. The time spent teaching QBs to look off safeties and get comfortable with progressions is done in camp and preseason. Griffin had NONE of that time to work on these things with live fire because he was rehabbing. Its impossible to develop these parts of his game during the season when the week is used to institute game plans, and study film. Guys have a VERY limited amount of time in pads anymore during the season, so having live fire practices to work on the technical side of game cant happen during the season. This isn't to say we should have kept Kyle, I'm just saying he cant take a lot of the blame for Roberts down season.

You're right. add to that getting the timing down with receivers and synch'ing with the o-line.

and who drove the dynamic of starting in the first game when he wasn't ready?

Robert.

you know...I remain a big RGIII homer. nevertheless...this whole push to start by game one leads one down a path that has to consider the motives behind this. some of it may be team oriented...but it sure appears that other motives may have been in play.

 

[CounterTrey]

Nah he's just super competitive and wanted to be there on the field with/for his team. It's nothing extraordinary or new. Shanahan should have stepped in there and had his own plan that included giving Robert the catch up time necessary before throwing him to the wolves...whether RG3 liked it or not. Sometimes players have to be saved from themselves, we see it often enough that coaches should be ready to deal with it.

About sophomore slump. That's not an excuse or cliche...it's a trackable stat and it happens for very good and easily explained reasons. These kids come to the NFL and set the world on fire their first year because the league doesn't know them and doesn't have any pro game film on them. Couple that with (in both Newton and RG3's cases) the offense being tailored to their level of acumen and you get some pretty crazy performances. But then the off season comes and teams have time to break down film, crack nuts like the read option and the come back prepared in a way they weren't able to in that 1st year those phenom QB's hit the scene. Same thing's happened to Luck too...it's VERY common.

 

[Elephant]

not picking on you EL...just using the post as a springboard for something that irks me.

- we all know Robert rushed back too quickly and everything else flowed out of that. so, yea, that's, IMO, his get out of jail free card.

Sophomore slump? I hate excuses. they are rationales for failure and accept status quo ante as acceptable. the whole point about excellence is not being "the norm."

No offense taken, but it seems to be a rather accurate statement across the board. Not saying I disagree with what you say, but there's a reason the term was introduced. Just because I acknowledge the term...doesn't mean I use it as an excuse. McD5 made the inference that there should not be a drop off in play from year 1 to year 2. I introduced the term to suggest it's been a part of history that a great number of QB's have a slump in their 2nd year. Doesn't mean I accept it.

However, I agree with McD5 as to why Robert had a slump...I believe it was part of what you say...his injury but I also believe there was something lacking in his coaching. I just hope it's not an indictment of McVay.

 

[fansince62]

Nah he's just super competitive and wanted to be there on the field with/for his team. It's nothing extraordinary or new. Shanahan should have stepped in there and had his own plan that included giving Robert the catch up time necessary before throwing him to the wolves...whether RG3 liked it or not. Sometimes players have to be saved from themselves, we see it often enough that coaches should be ready to deal with it.

About sophomore slump. That's not an excuse or cliche...it's a trackable stat and it happens for very good and easily explained reasons. These kids come to the NFL and set the world on fire their first year because the league doesn't know them and doesn't have any pro game film on them. Couple that with (in both Newton and RG3's cases) the offense being tailored to their level of acumen and you get some pretty crazy performances. But then the off season comes and teams have time to break down film, crack nuts like the read option and the come back prepared in a way they weren't able to in that 1st year those phenom QB's hit the scene. Same thing's happened to Luck too...it's VERY common.

1) Robert, if nothing else, is a very smart dude. He's competitive. But he's also deliberative. He had to have considered the range of options. The best we can draw from the line of thought in this thread is that he weighted being on the field above the other courses-of-action. this, again, leads back to how those weights were arrived at. Robert Griffin the IIIrd is anything but a simple athlete.

2) I get the track record. Again, I am expressing a personal view. When I hire someone, I don't look for answer's like "well, yea, my performance last year wasn't distinguished, but neither was the bulk of anyone's else's. That's just the way it is with young folks learning the ropes." I look for excellence. A different mindset I guess.

 

[fansince62]

No offense taken, but it seems to be a rather accurate statement across the board. Not saying I disagree with what you say, but there's a reason the term was introduced. Just because I acknowledge the term...doesn't mean I use it as an excuse. McD5 made the inference that there should not be a drop off in play from year 1 to year 2. I introduced the term to suggest it's been a part of history that a great number of QB's have a slump in their 2nd year. Doesn't mean I accept it.

However, I agree with McD5 as to why Robert had a slump...I believe it was part of what you say...his injury but I also believe there was something lacking in his coaching. I just hope it's not an indictment of McVay.

there's no way to prove the explanation for Robert's performance was simply "sophomore slump." and the reason is that NO ONE has explained what that means. Any data scientist will tell you: a statistical correlation is not an explanation. It simply highlights a pattern. It doesn't explain it. (you know - like "global warming"!!!) And unless you can explain it, you can't conclude this explains Robert's season. I'll stick to the no off-season preparations/rushed back hypothesis. I can't prove that either - but it makes a lot more sense to me than "well....it's happened to other guys."

the problem with the coaching explanation is that there is a counter-example: the 2012 season. we know he succeeded with the same coaches. what was the major differentiator between the 2012 and 2013 seasons?

in fact, I don't believe enough thought has gone into the overall "it was Kyle's poor decisions" line of thinking. Again, in terms of explanations, how do you establish this? what I saw was a QB who couldn't execute; an offensive line that couldn't pass protect at key times; a rb who did fumble; no real downfield threat in the passing game; receivers who sometimes got open..often did not get much separation; a QB who tucked and ran quickly quickly many times; lot of injuries in the receiving corps; lotta 3rd and longs; a defense and STs that got the offense into a hole early...again and again; routine dumb penalties (i.e., focus) at the wrong time; dropped passes.

it's not that Kyle didn't make poor play calls or drop the game strategy quickly - he did. but there was a lot of other stuff going on to definitively lay blame at his doorstep. He did well as the OC in Texas and, whether hired or not, it is telling that Ozzie Newsome has invited him back for a second interview.

in the event, the current meme is that it was all the Shanahan's fault. this is essentially what Allen and Snyder have been communicating. ok. let's move on.

 

[NavyDave]

Ah the sophomore slump excuse. So this must mean, barring major injuries, the expectation is that Robert Griffin will have 3rd season comparable to Cam Newton.

 

[fansince62]

Ah the sophomore slump excuse. So this must mean, barring major injuries, the expectation is that Robert Griffin will have 3rd season comparable to Cam Newton.

that would be nice!

 

[Bulldog]

Mike made the decision to let Griffin back in the Seattle playoff game and the resulting injury and layoff is what ultimately helped cost Shanahan his job.

Kyle is fine as an OC.

Like Norv he is effective when there is structure above him.

I don 't think he will ever be an effective head coach in the NFL, though.

And the decision to come to Washington rather than continue his development on his own away from Dad was a poor one.

 

[tshile]

This is a complete 180 from his quote to Peter King...

Is Gruden that wishy washy or did someone say something to him???

 

[Elephant]

there's no way to prove the explanation for Robert's performance was simply "sophomore slump." and the reason is that NO ONE has explained what that means. Any data scientist will tell you: a statistical correlation is not an explanation. It simply highlights a pattern. It doesn't explain it. (you know - like "global warming"!!!) And unless you can explain it, you can't conclude this explains Robert's season. I'll stick to the no off-season preparations/rushed back hypothesis. I can't prove that either - but it makes a lot more sense to me than "well....it's happened to other guys."

the problem with the coaching explanation is that there is a counter-example: the 2012 season. we know he succeeded with the same coaches. what was the major differentiator between the 2012 and 2013 seasons?

in fact, I don't believe enough thought has gone into the overall "it was Kyle's poor decisions" line of thinking. Again, in terms of explanations, how do you establish this? what I saw was a QB who couldn't execute; an offensive line that couldn't pass protect at key times; a rb who did fumble; no real downfield threat in the passing game; receivers who sometimes got open..often did not get much separation; a QB who tucked and ran quickly quickly many times; lot of injuries in the receiving corps; lotta 3rd and longs; a defense and STs that got the offense into a hole early...again and again; routine dumb penalties (i.e., focus) at the wrong time; dropped passes.

it's not that Kyle didn't make poor play calls or drop the game strategy quickly - he did. but there was a lot of other stuff going on to definitively lay blame at his doorstep. He did well as the OC in Texas and, whether hired or not, it is telling that Ozzie Newsome has invited him back for a second interview.

in the event, the current meme is that it was all the Shanahan's fault. this is essentially what Allen and Snyder have been communicating. ok. let's move on.

Al, I said it was a pair of factors that I believe were contributed to his decline.

1.) I agree with you, the injry was a major contributing factor.
2.) I agree with McD5, it appears quite obvious there was a disconnect in coaching. Be it the relationship or lack of actually practicing fundamentals, the coaching seemed suspect.

The 2012 season saw a scheme that took the NFL by surprise. Once the league caught up, they didn't appear to have really focused on coaching this kid to be the QB they tried to put on the field to start the season...they tried to force the square peg, Robert, into a round hole.

I will add one more factor:

3.) We've come full circle to what you've been arguing for a while...lack of talent. I agree there too. His play was affected by the lack of talent around him too.

Whether it's called a sophomore slump or not is no excuse...it's just a name given for a trend in the NFL. Many QB"s who light up the league in their 1st year, seem to regress in their 2nd.

 

[Elephant]

Ah the sophomore slump excuse. So this must mean, barring major injuries, the expectation is that Robert Griffin will have 3rd season comparable to Cam Newton.

Let's hope so.