So Who Wins Roy?

[Beans]

Yeah, guess the hyper-competitive mentality in the NFL doesn't exist despite everyone's claims. Guess all those guys were ok with losing jobs so their fans could have more decades of success.

What noble people those colts 2011 coaches, front office, and players were to sacrifice their careers so the colts fans could have Luck

That's all fine and well yada yada, but how do you know ownership wasn't telling them who to start at quarterback? You don't. I don't. If they were really trying to win, they would have made a trade for a backup from another team. Not rolled with Painter, Dan "0-16" Orlovsky, or Kerry Collins - a guy that was 2 - 11 the previous two seasons.
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[Jugband McGillicuddy]

I truly don't understand how this is even up for debate. There's a pretty good chance that the Skins and Colts end up with identical records. And as far as QB stats go, it ain't even close. RG3 SHOULD win ROY going away. Hell, he's in the MVP conversation. (Not saying he will or should win, I don't buy into all that. But he should be top-5.) There's no way Luck even enters into that discussion.

 

[SNF]

I truly don't understand how this is even up for debate. There's a pretty good chance that the Skins and Colts end up with identical records. And as far as QB stats go, it ain't even close. RG3 SHOULD win ROY going away. Hell, he's in the MVP conversation. (Not saying he will or should win, I don't buy into all that. But he should be top-5.) There's no way Luck even enters into that discussion.

I agree. Robert Griffin III has been the best rookie player by far this year. It is that easy.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

He's got a chance to break Roethlispickle's rookie QB rating record. He's thrown 5 INTs, and they were mostly deflections off his receivers' hands - he's simply not making rookie mistakes. And his rushing is amazing - he was on pace to shatter Vick's single-season record until he got hurt, but that record will eventually fall as well. Oh, and he's about to win the NFC East as a rookie, on a team that started 3-6. Incredible.

 

[tshile]

That's all fine and well yada yada, but how do you know ownership wasn't telling them who to start at quarterback? You don't. I don't. If they were really trying to win, they would have made a trade for a backup from another team. Not rolled with Painter, Dan "0-16" Orlovsky, or Kerry Collins - a guy that was 2 - 11 the previous two seasons.
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Right. We don't know. I just look at the two scenarios and what would have had to happen for both of them...

Scenario 1 - The colts were just a bad team that didn't catch any breaks and had a bad year when their future HOF and arguably best to ever play the game QB was out for the entire season. After having Manning for so long they didn't have a backup...

Scenario 2 - The entire organization had a plan to tank the season to draft Luck, to dump Payton Manning, and then have majority of the organization fired, traded, or otherwise shipped out of town to have an entire new staff come in...

While tanking is certainly possible, I have a hard time buying that 53 football players, an entire coaching staff, and the front office put all their careers at risk to get Payton Manning out of town and to draft Andrew Luck.

Majority of those guys you would have to believe tanked on purpose to get Luck, aren't with the organization anymore... Most of them not by choice... So either they're all keeping miraculously quiet about being screwed over by the organization after tanking for it, or they just had a really bad year.

Not that it really matters. I'm happy they got Luck, it's part of the bigger puzzle that meant us getting Griffin

edit: I just have hard time believing that they did that, then everyone that was fired/cut/traded didn't say a single word about being asked to tank a season then be fired/cut/traded for it. That's an absurd about of loyalty to a franchise that just got rid of you after doing exactly what they asked you to. And, from everything I've ever seen, read, or heard, that's not how NFL football players and coaches work... Their brains just don't work that way.

 

[Beans]

edit: I just have hard time believing that they did that, then everyone that was fired/cut/traded didn't say a single word about being asked to tank a season then be fired/cut/traded for it. That's an absurd about of loyalty to a franchise that just got rid of you after doing exactly what they asked you to. And, from everything I've ever seen, read, or heard, that's not how NFL football players and coaches work... Their brains just don't work that way.

It doesn't take an entire organization to tank...nor does it take any coaches. If Irsay said we're rolling with Painter, then that's that. Tanking accomplished. The rest of the team will naturally give up.
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[tshile]

Luck didn't make the pro bowl, and rumors are Griffin did.

May tell you all you need to know.

I'm sure the Luck supporters (nothing offensive intended about that) will point to Manning and Brady as the reasons, but Matt Shaub took the 3rd spot so...

 

[RedskinfaninOC]

If it is true that RGIII is going to the Pro Bowl, than how can RGIII not be the Rookie of the Year? Besides, how many rookie of the week awards has RGIII earned compared to Luck? Does anyone know?

 

[SNF]

@Redskins @RGIII & Dan Marino are only @nfl rookie QBs to be selected to original AFC-NFC Pro Bowl team
Retweeted by Redskins

 

[McD5]

If it is true that RGIII is going to the Pro Bowl, than how can RGIII not be the Rookie of the Year? Besides, how many rookie of the week awards has RGIII earned compared to Luck? Does anyone know?

The rookie of the week awards hold merit. I wouldn't put much stock into the pro bowl.

Drew Brees has 4,800 yards and 39 TDs.

RG3 has 3,100 yards and only 20 TDs.

What's wrong with that picture?

 

[Henry]

The rookie of the week awards hold merit. I wouldn't put much stock into the pro bowl.

Drew Brees has 4,800 yards and 39 TDs.

RG3 has 3,100 yards and only 20 TDs.

What's wrong with that picture?

Not that you don't have a point, but

Brees has thrown 18 INTs (tied for most in the league).

Griffin has thrown 5 INTs.

Brees has run for 5 yards and 1 TD.

Griffin has run for 752 yards and 6 TDs.

 

[Boone]

The rookie of the week awards hold merit. I wouldn't put much stock into the pro bowl.

Drew Brees has 4,800 yards and 39 TDs.

RG3 has 3,100 yards and only 20 TDs.

What's wrong with that picture?

Not taking anything away from Brees, but he also has 18 interceptions you didn't mention

And his 4,800 yards are largely a result of nearly double the passing attempts (628 to 325). And Griffin has 752 rushing yards with 6 rushing TDs compared to Brees with 5 yards rushing and 1 rushing TD.

So, personally, I don't think there's much wrong with the picture.

 

[Boone]

Get out of my head Henry

 

[McD5]

Not that you don't have a point, but

Brees has thrown 18 INTs (tied for most in the league).

Griffin has thrown 5 INTs.

Brees has run for 5 yards and 1 TD.

Griffin has run for 752 yards and 6 TDs.

RG3s running stats are just as important as his throwing yards, so they should definitely be included.

If you add those to his 3,100 yards passing, that puts his total at 3,852. Strong, but about 1,000 yards less than Brees.

Ints aren't as important as TDs of course, but for sake of comparison, and because we love RG3' let's say that they are.

If you subtract 18 Ints from Drew's 40 TDs, that still leaves him with 22 TDs.

If you subtract RG3's 5 interceptions, and two lost fumbles from his total of 26 TDs, that would put him at 19.

So, Brees at 4,800 yards and 22 TDs. RG3 at 3,852 yards and 19 TDs.

I'd say Brees got screwed pretty hard.

 

[Jimbo]

While the Pro Bowl nod has merit, and several ROTW awards moreso, I still think it comes down to the final game. The Skins need to make the playoffs for Griff to win ROY. A Division Championship would hold more water than the Wild Card spots pulled down by Luck and Wilson, IMO, but no playoffs probably means no ROY.

 

[Boone]

RG3s running stats are just as important as his throwing yards, so they should definitely be included.

If you add those to his 3,100 yards passing, that puts his total at 3,852. Strong, but about 1,000 yards less than Brees.

Ints aren't as important as TDs of course, but for sake of comparison, and because we love RG3' let's say that they are.

If you subtract 18 Ints from Drew's 39 TDs, that still leaves him with 21 TDs.

If you subtract RG3's 5 interceptions, and two lost fumbles from his total of 26 TDs, that would put him at 19.

So, Brees at 4,800 yards and 21 TDs. RG3 at 3,852 yards and 19 TDs.

I'd say Brees got screwed pretty hard.

But you're ignoring the most importance difference - Brees has had nearly twice, that's TWICE the passing attempts. I can't even imagine what Griffin's stats might look like if he were given that many opportunities.

 

[RedskinfaninOC]

It is offical, RGIII had been selected to the pro bowl. How can he not be rookie of the year?

 

[RedskinfaninOC]

I just took a look and neither Luck nor Wilson (Settle) were elected to the pro bowl. I think that places RGIII in a very good position to be the rookie of the year.

 

[McD5]

But you're ignoring the most importance difference - Brees has had nearly twice, that's TWICE the passing attempts. I can't even imagine what Griffin's stats might look like if he were given that many opportunities.

I agree that number of attempts is a huge factor, but for the sake of comparison, I'm not sure how to rectify that. Double RG3's passing yards and throwing TDs, and subtract all of his rushing yards and rushing TDs? Or maybe he should throw more? We choose to run him at times, and rightfully so. Just not sure how you would calculate it.

There are other, maybe lesser, but still important factors, including, but not limited to:

Brees had no head coach or offensive coordinator the entire season.

RG3 had another 7 fumbles that we recovered. We were very lucky there.

RG3 leads the league by a wide margin in the number of passes completed behind the line of scrimmage.

RG3 had an incredible year. To even be mentioned in the same breath as HOF'r Drew Brees in his rookie season is just fantastically insane and mind-blowing.

I just respectfully disagree, and don't believe his season was better than Brees'.

 

[McD5]

I just took a look and neither Luck nor Wilson (Settle) were elected to the pro bowl. I think that places RGIII in a very good position to be the rookie of the year.

I don't believe that any of those three would beat out Manning, Brady, Rodgers or Ryan. So I wouldn't read too much into that.

Matt Schaub is a question mark though. Voters may be impressed with his team's 12-3 record.