Seeking different Perspectives: Offensive Pass Interference?

[burgold]

That's what I just saw too.

If the defender is allowed to jam the receiver, the receiver better be allowed to disengage. This was a blatant reffing. So bad, you can almost see the refs bookie standing behind him paying out the money.

 

[Goaldeje]

I still get frustrated that CBS wouldn't show the damn replay. Sure would be nice if we could have seen the penalty for ourselves. Others have questioned the five yard jamming rule, but I haven't seen or heard any definitive answer on that one.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

I am with Goalie it seems a bit fishy to not play a replay of a controversial call. I assume that 5 yards jamming means 5 yards where a rec can attack a DB.

 

[Elephant]

I am with Goalie it seems a bit fishy to not play a replay of a controversial call. I assume that 5 yards jamming means 5 yards where a rec can attack a DB.

That's what I thought. In the video I have (That I cannot figure out how to post), Santana pushes Edelman at the 3 yard line and Edelman falls on his arse about a yard deep in the end zone. The line of scrimmage is the 5 yard line putting the contact 2 yards past the line of scrimmage.

If the rule is as we understand it, the call was one of the worst robberies of the year.

Here is the link to the pass interference rule but it does not say anything about the 5 yard cushion:

http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/passinterference

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

I have been told by a buddy that its 2 yards to jam or block, but I think its normal for 5 yards, im gonna go google lol

 

[Kel Varnsen]

That's what I thought. In the video I have (That I cannot figure out how to post), Santana pushes Edelman at the 3 yard line and Edelman falls on his arse about a yard deep in the end zone. The line of scrimmage is the 5 yard line putting the contact 2 yards past the line of scrimmage.

If the rule is as we understand it, the call was one of the worst robberies of the year.

Here is the link to the pass interference rule but it does not say anything about the 5 yard cushion:

http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/passinterference

If you look at the link you posted, you will see Moss violated 2 of the rules for offensive interference:


Actions that constitute offensive pass interference include but are not limited to:

(a) Blocking downfield by an offensive player prior to the ball being touched.

(b) Initiating contact with a defender by shoving or pushing off thus creating a separation in an attempt to catch a pass.

(c) Driving through a defender who has established a position on the field.

Also, if you look at the full rules, section 5 defines offensive pass interference from the time the ball is snapped, but defensive interference is when the ball is in the air.

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/2011_Rule_Book.pdf

Offensive pass interference rules apply from the time the ball is snapped until the ball is touched. See Article 2
for prohibited acts while the ball is in the air and Article 4 for prohibited acts prior to the pass.

I had the game on DVR and watched it later. At the snap, Moss ran right into the defender who didn't move and pushed him to get separation. That's why he was so wide open. He extended his arms and made it an easy call for the zebras. That penalty won't always be called, but for as bad as the refs were, that was one they actually got right. It just sucks that they chose that moment to get one right.

 

[Elephant]

That's what is confusing Kel. There is no mention of a 5 yard cushion. I have heard a thousand times that there is a 5 yard cushion yet the rules do not mention any cushion.

Edit: My wife just posted the video in the Images thread I posted Sunday. It shows Moss gaining the advantage by shoving Edelman back, but it is within that mysterious 5 yard cushion.

 

[burgold]

That's what is confusing Kel. There is no mention of a 5 yard cushion. I have heard a thousand times that there is a 5 yard cushion yet the rules do not mention any cushion.

Edit: My wife just posted the video in the Images thread I posted Sunday. It shows Moss gaining the advantage by shoving Edelman back, but it is within that mysterious 5 yard cushion.

I agree. It doesn't make sense. If the receiver gets to jam you then you are allowed to break free. It's the danger of the jam and why smaller of players like Hall don't do it all that often.

If the jam works you alter the route and wreck the timing, but if the receiver knocks you down... it's a very big play.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

I believe the 5-yard cushion only applies to the defender's ability to initiate contact/jam the receiver. The offensive player can never initiate contact unless he is blocking, which can only happen on a screen or running play.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

weird, when I played TE my best move to get free was to fake a block and "let" the defender beat me then run loose into the secondary lol I always though that within that cushion you could do anything short of holding.

 

[servumtuum]

Interesting, I have heard of the 5 yard cushion rule applied to defenders but I don't recall ever hearing of it in reference to offensive PI.

 

[Elephant]

I guess according to the letter of the law, Moss did commit a penalty because there is no mention of a 5 yard cushion. On the other hand, there is no cushion mentioned for the defender in the link I posted either. That's what has me befuddled.

But meh, here we are 3 days later still talking about it.

The real travesty all season in regard to the rules is the lack of holding calls once again! And what concerns me most is Kerrigan seems to be falling in to the same routine Orakpo has, bull rush. They are getting choked by the offensive lineman and Ryan seems to be sticking with the bull rush more as the season progresses just like Brian. Is this being coached by 'Jeff' Haslett?
Posted via BGO Mobile Device

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Well, there's a lot of leeway given because most of the time its difficult to tell who initiates contact. But in this case, Moss clearly hits him, pushes him to the ground and runs free - that will get called every time (unless Tom Brady lines up at WR).

 

[Kel Varnsen]

Here are the rules that mention contact by the defender within 5 yds. I post this just so everyone can understand what the rules actually say.

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/2011_Rule_Book.pdf

Rule 8 Section 4
Legal and Illegal Contact With Eligible Receivers
LEGAL CONTACT WITHIN FIVE YARDS
Article 1 Legal Contact Within Five Yards. Within five yards of the line of scrimmage, a defensive player may chuck an eligible receiver in front of him. The defender is allowed to maintain continuous and unbroken contact within the five-yard zone, so long as the receiver has not moved beyond a point that is even with the defender.


For the offense, they are not allowed to make contact with the defender after the ball is snapped, unless they are blocking at the line of scrimmage. So there is not 5 yd chuck or contact allowed to be initiated by the offense.


Section 5 Pass Interference
DEFINITION
Article 1
Offensive pass interference rules apply from the time the ball is snapped until the ball is touched. See Article 2
for prohibited acts while the ball is in the air and Article 4 for prohibited acts prior to the pass.


Now, the refs will allows the offensive player to fight off the defender after they legally make contact with them in the first 5 yards. Usually you will hear the announcers talk about how they are "hand fighting". So there is some leeway given by the refs. But to get offensive interference called, you normally have to be pretty blatant, which Moss was on that play.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Well, the NFL agreed that Fletcher's hit on the Golden Child wasn't illegal, he didn't get fined. Kinda surprising, considering...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...-carter-fined-15000-redskins-hall-fined-7500/

EDIT: the call & fine on Carter were pretty bogus. I'd be pissed if I were AC.