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Sean Payton suspended for a year

i say CHeating is cheating.....I would allmost bet my left foot if it was the patriots organization with the bounty system GoDell dosn't come down this hard ...I'm not saying that it's unfair I just feel as if it was ah....somewhat harsh. (IMO) but what do I know...
 
If Goodell wants to punish the Saints for placing bounties on opposing players, that’s fine. More than fine; it’s appropriate. But to claim that he’s doing it in part to protect, in his words, “the integrity of the game” is laughable. Actually, it’s bull****. Bill Belichick had more DVDs in his basement than a porn shop and he got a slap on the wrist. Please.

I understand also that the punishment was more severe because the Saints allegedly lied about what was going on. In his words, the Patriots “were cooperative” once their misdeeds came to light. Sure they were. Believing that they got rid of their entire stash is like believing that an alcoholic poured out all of his beer.

I’m not saying that the Saints shouldn’t have been punished; what they did was wrong and beyond acceptable behavior. I just think the punishment is too harsh and Goodell’s explanations for their severity feel disingenuous.


I don't think I could have possibly said it any better, Anne. Well done.
 
There are a lot of NFL players, current and past, who have said they've never had a 'bounty' going on (if by 'bounty', one defines it as incentive specifically to injure someone). I have said all along, the NFL is a violent league and always will be, and that there seems to be more than enough hypocrisy to go around. But - I think it's also possible that Williams and Payton crossed the line here by moving this from a motivational incentive to make a great play (like say, $500 if you drop a kick returner inside the 10 yard line as an example) to money for actually injuring someone.

I almost think that has to be the determination the NFL has made here. It's the only thing that explains why they aren't going after multiple other teams or even teams like the Redskins where Williams clearly had some kind of incentive program going.

Just seems like maybe he let this get out of hand and it became something more than stickers on a helmet-style motivational stuff.

I doubt any of us will ever really know for sure whether Williams was just unlucky, arrogant, or stupid enough to be caught and serve as the NFL's scapegoat, or whether he really did cross lines and promote injuring other players in a way that went well beyond encouraging aggressive play.
 
The difference in punishments for the Patriots and the Saints would've been minimal if the powers that be in New Orleans had used some common sense after getting caught. New England got caught and came clean right away. Fair or not, they received a certain measure of punishment.

In contrast, the Saints tried to cover it up and lied on multiple occasions. If history teaches us anything, it's that the coverup usually receives a punishment that is often greater than the actual punishment for the crime itself.

Still to come - punishment for individual players. The Saints are about to get some more hurt. It will take years for them to recover from this mess. The "treatment" they receive from fans in various stadiums next year is going to be harsh.
 
Of the players yet to be punished, I've read that of the 29 players implicated, there is absolute proof of the direct involvement of 22 of them. One player mentioned, Jonathon Vilma, is currently unsigned, and it may be in his best interest to remain so.
 
This Yahoo article hurts. I'm starting to think Gregg may not make a return to the NFL at all...

The night before Gregg Williams’ final game as the New Orleans Saints’ defensive coordinator, the since-suspended coach gave a fiery speech to the team’s defensive players during which he made specific references to inflicting physical punishment upon several San Francisco 49ers in a postseason game the next day.

In the speech at the team’s hotel near the San Francisco Airport, Williams – according to documentary filmmaker Sean Pamphilon – at one point made a hand signal suggesting he would personally pay for a ferocious shot on 49ers quarterback Alex Smith.

Williams also referenced the prospect of his players inflicting a severe knee injury upon San Francisco wideout Michael Crabtree and exhorted them to “put a lick on” backup receiver Kyle Williams in an effort to “find out” if he was still suffering from the effects of a late-December concussion.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_y...gg_williams_speech_saints_49ers_bounty_040412
 
The Giants players came out and said they were targeting a 49ers player with a history of concussions also - I think this is more widespread than we think, and the Saints are just being made an example.
 
Every team targets the hurt and tries to put players out. It's animal instinct to pick off the weak and its natural to want the big hit weaken a team to get an advantage
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Exactly, and GDubb simply monetized this to fire up his defenses even more. I am still in the "not such a big deal" camp.
 
Every team targets the hurt and tries to put players out. It's animal instinct to pick off the weak and its natural to want the big hit weaken a team to get an advantage
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Exactly, and GDubb simply monetized this to fire up his defenses even more. I am still in the "not such a big deal" camp.

Wow. Have to say I disagree with you both. Rewarding big hits and big plays is one thing to me, specifically targeting pre-existing ACL injuries and concussed players is another. I was sickened with the Giants acknowledging targeting the concussed player on the 9ers, but honestly believe the coaching staff should have taken him out of the game after the first fumble anyway. A lot of that is on Harbaugh and his staff, imo.

But Gregg telling his players to target injuries (particularly head injuries) turns my stomach some. I dunno, it crosses my line, and I would hate to hear the same terminology was used and condoned here in DC, though I'm sure it was. As has been said before, turns out Zorn may actually have been a better HC choice than Gregg.

(though obviously not the best choice overall, just between those two)
 
Wow. Have to say I disagree with you both. Rewarding big hits and big plays is one thing to me, specifically targeting pre-existing ACL injuries and concussed players is another. I was sickened with the Giants acknowledging targeting the concussed player on the 9ers, but honestly believe the coaching staff should have taken him out of the game after the first fumble anyway. A lot of that is on Harbaugh and his staff, imo.

But Gregg telling his players to target injuries (particularly head injuries) turns my stomach some. I dunno, it crosses my line, and I would hate to hear the same terminology was used and condoned here in DC, though I'm sure it was. As has been said before, turns out Zorn may actually have been a better HC choice than Gregg.

(though obviously not the best choice overall, just between those two)

I mean, its a violent game. That's a big reason why we love it - huge hits, pancake blocks, wedge busting (RIP) - its part of the game. I mean, there are countless numbers of big hit highlight videos on youtube. We revered Sean Taylor because of his huge hits.

I guess the delineation comes when people say "this was on purpose." Yeah, I can see that - targeting a weak knee or a concussion is bad, but I'm willing to bet it happens with or without monetary influence. Players know what other guys have injury wise - and they know they will be targeted with an injury.
 
I guess the delineation comes when people say "this was on purpose." Yeah, I can see that - targeting a weak knee or a concussion is bad, but I'm willing to bet it happens with or without monetary influence. Players know what other guys have injury wise - and they know they will be targeted with an injury.

You know, I think that's the problem. And there is probably a lot of naivete on my part and a lot of people's part about the nature of the beast, so to speak. Going out and "reminding" your opponent about his bum shoulder doesn't bother me a bit; having your coach offer cash to go cause ACL damage or concuss an already concussed player (or someone with that history) is repulsive to me.
 
I guess the delineation comes when people say "this was on purpose." Yeah, I can see that - targeting a weak knee or a concussion is bad, but I'm willing to bet it happens with or without monetary influence. Players know what other guys have injury wise - and they know they will be targeted with an injury.
Agreed. Also, a lot of the talk is just, lingo. "Kill" is used a lot, though we all know it's not meant literally.

And I've heard countless players, Redskins as well, talking about targeting injured parts on players. SOP
 
Well, I just heard the new Gregg Williams tape, and I have to agree that it crosses the line. Specifically the comments about taking out an ACL and bending Vernon Davis' ankles over the pile.
 
Well, I just heard the new Gregg Williams tape, and I have to agree that it crosses the line. Specifically the comments about taking out an ACL and bending Vernon Davis' ankles over the pile.
That specifically, is definitely over the top. But in general, existing known injuries, are a target. Payment or not.
 
Yeah, I heard the audio of former New Orleans defensive coordinator Gregg Williams urging his players to injure various 49ers before their January playoff game. It's pretty compelling — not just because he wanted to maim Michael Crabtree and Vernon Davis, and not just because he may have been illegally taped without his consent, but because Williams might be the worst motivational speaker in recent American history. No wonder the Saints lost that game. If that was a sports movie scene, the director would have fired Williams and replaced him with another actor. What a buffoon.

Of course, it's 2012 — the Year of Internet Self-Righteousness — which means we need to feign disgust, pile on the Saints, argue for Williams to receive the NFL's death penalty and basically freak out that a football coach would ever do that. So let's concede the following points. No, you shouldn't instruct your players to hurt people. Yes, you should be fined and suspended for that. Yes, Gregg Williams came off like an insensitive Neanderthal, and yes, it would be difficult (if not impossible) to take him seriously as a coach again. His professional career is over. The tape is pretty damning. Even if it's far-fetched that any Saint listened to that speech and thought to himself, Maybe my creepy weirdo of a coach is right, maybe I SHOULD go after Michael Crabtree's ACL!

But there's a bigger story here: the laughable notion that anyone can change an ingrained culture of violence overnight. Any parent knows that kids never listen the first time — it takes four or five times, and usually a raised voice or a threat, before they heed your wishes. Players and coaches are wired the same way. The league never turned off its "We're gonna look the other way, keep being violent and keep those hits coming" switch until the 2010 season, after that infamous October weekend with all the signature hits, when Roger Goodell said, "Oh, crap, maybe I should start fining these guys because the Sports Legacy Institute has accumulated three-plus years of rock-solid concussion evidence and lawsuits are coming. Better later than never!"

And so the league started cracking down. Less than 18 months later, we're supposed to be baffled and appalled that the Saints would shrug off those warnings, that they wanted to win money for crippling opponents or knocking them out … you know, because football players aren't supposed to think that way or something. (Watching ESPN this morning was pretty funny — it's like every talking head took an oath to forget the network was running "JACKED UP!" segments a few scant years ago.) My two favorite Patriots victories were Super Bowl XXXVI (over the Rams) and the 2003 AFC Championship (when the defense beat up Colts receivers so badly that Colts GM Bill Polian convinced the league to change the line of scrimmage contact rules the following summer). I am not naïve enough to believe that, before both of those games, Bill Belichick didn't tell his players, "I want you to beat the absolute crap out of (fill in: Marshall Faulk, Isaac Bruce, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Ricky Proehl, etc.) and make them remember you the next time they go over the middle … do whatever it takes."

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if Belichick uttered something more ominous than that. That's football, a sport in which coaches holler things like, "NOW GO OUT THERE AND KILL THEM!" Do they mean, literally, to murder them? Of course not. It's just the way these meatheads talk. It's the language of their barbaric game. Watch this clip, for God's sake. Normal human beings don't interact like this. When it came out that Williams (and his players) crossed the line, the Saints became The Scapegoat Du Jour for a league that desperately needed one. In case this wasn't clear, everyone, the NFL is taking player safety seriously now! Emphasis on the word "now." It's a transparent ploy to make up for decades of real negligence, as well as mounting evidence that the next generation of football players (any teenager, basically) can be ruined by one concussion. Meanwhile …

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7779341/when-do-draw-line-nfl-violence
 
Here's some of it.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhnn9kbqQUA&[/media]


I will be surprised if Williams ever coaches again. Sad, but you have to be smarter than that. There are some lines you shouldn't cross. Big difference between coaching your players to play hard, aggressive football, and telling them to cause concussions or go after someone's ACL. It's a thin line, but there IS a line he crossed in my opinion.
 
Even if he has learned his lesson, how many head coaches out there will trust him after this? I mean, not only was it stupid to do to begin with but he ignored sign after sign to stop. This recording was done AFTER the Saints learned they were being investigated, for crying out loud.

There is stupid and then there is arrogantly stupid at biblical level.
 
What Carlos said:

Carlos Rogers downplays Redskins’ bounty system under Gregg Williams

“It all started, when you’d be in the [defensive backs] room, just making wagers. Every DB put $100 in the pot. There’d probably be 10 of us in the room, that week, somebody get an interception, they’d get that $1,000. That’s basically what it was. You make a big hit, you put some money in the pot. It wasn’t about all these guys putting money in the pot for you to intentionally hurt somebody.

$1000 for an interception! I suppose Carlos always went home empty handed!
 

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