Sean Payton suspended for a year

[Fear The Spear]

If there's sufficient evidence that he did it, he definitely should be suspended more than a year. This is a despicable act.

 

[fansince62]

Saints HC suspended for entire season

go to nfl.com for more details

 

[Lanky Livingston]

If there's sufficient evidence that he did it, he definitely should be suspended more than a year. This is a despicable act.

Eh...I've already made the case why its not THAT despicable. This is the same line of thinking that's gone on throughout football history at all levels, the Saints (or Gregggg) simply monetized it.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Merge! http://www.bgobsession.com/showthread.php?p=117631#post117631

 

[Lanky Livingston]

I keep seeing this described as the "Gregg Williams investigation" - maybe that means they aren't going to come down very hard on the players?

 

[China]

 

[Jimbo]

Talk about overkill. I understand sending a message but Vito Goodell is gonna end up a marked man himself.

Wouldn't be surprised to see a riot in New Orleans. Those fans must be livid.

 

[Jimbo]

I wish I had the Goodell voodoo doll concession down in Nawlins right now. I'd make a mint!

 

[Neophyte]

The brother of one of my best friends is a huge Saints fan and call him livid at the moment would be a colossal understatement. He is currently planning a personal boycott of all things NFL this year, right down to and including any company that pays for advertising time during games.

He considers this beyond hypocritical when compared to what the Pats got for video taping the opposition or Donte Stallworth got for killing a man while driving drunk.

I can't say I agree with him though. I think this punishment has more to do with the Saints thumbing their noses at league rules and lying about what was going on. That is a direct challenge to Goodell's authority. Say what you want about Belicheck, he appears to have cooperated fully with the league investigation from day 1 and taken his medicine. Payton repeated denied anything was going on while sanctioning, at least passively, the continuation of the program.

 

[Goaldeje]

Neo, I understand where you're coming from, but the Pats cheated. To say, or even imply that cheating was OK because Belicheat (see what I did there?) cooperated after the fact is absurd, imo; and that is the message Goodell is sending with this ruling. I think he has gone way over the top with this, much too excessive.

 

[Henry]

Eh...I've already made the case why its not THAT despicable. This is the same line of thinking that's gone on throughout football history at all levels, the Saints (or Gregggg) simply monetized it.

Well, I think what the big deal is, is that the Saints institutionalized it. It became part of the team policy in a more or less official way that is not present in other teams. Apparently (as the NFL channel explained it) the league investigated every single team to try and find similar practices from the top brass of other teams and didn't find anything nearly as systemic anywhere else.

So while this sort of thing might go on informally around the league, that's not exactly what they are punishing the Saints for. Or so that's what I'm hearing.

I haven't really wrapped my head around just how badly the NFL smacked the Saints to have an opinion on this ruling. It's really really harsh, but I want to hear more before I decide for myself if it's TOO harsh.

That said, it's really really harsh.

 

[Neophyte]

Neo, I understand where you're coming from, but the Pats cheated. To say, or even imply that cheating was OK because Belicheat (see what I did there?) cooperated after the fact is absurd, imo; and that is the message Goodell is sending with this ruling. I think he has gone way over the top with this, much too excessive.

Cheating, by definition, is breaking the rules. They both did that. When confronted about it, one cooperated and one tried to hide it while continuing follow illegal practices.

I am not saying what the Pats did was less wrong than the Saints. I am saying the way they handled it after the league stepped in is most definitely more right. That needs to be recognized.

Do you deal with your kids exactly the same way when two of them do wrong but one lies about it and the other comes clean?

 

[Goaldeje]

Depends on how many glasses of wine I've had.

Fair point, I'll give y that. However, I would argue the difference between the two reactions is not worth the suspensions. The Pats gave up a first rounder, so even if you argue one first rounder is worth two 2nd's, Goodell is telling us the fact Belicheat cooperated with him saved the Pats from multiple suspensions?

I argue the same holds true for our cap punishment, btw. The only precedent I could find for salary cap shenanigans was the Broncos early in the 2000's, and they lost a couple mid round picks, iirc. So we go from that to $36M? Really?

Goodell seems power hungry and full of himself. He is going overboard here, IMO, and will get smacked down eventually.

 

[Boone]

Comparing this to the Patriot's thing is kind of silly. The worst outcome of what Belichick and Company did was that they unfairly gained a competitive advantage. Obvious, the worst outcome possible in this case is someone being paralyzed or otherwise permanently injured. Apples and oranges.

I'd really have to hear the evidence to have an opinion on this whole thing. If Williams was really encouraging players to or rewarding them for injuring other guys, then I think he deserves whatever he gets as doe Peyton. If this was incentivizing players for big hits, I don't think that's quite the same thing and smacks of hypocrisy, as the the NFL is all about big hits, and promotes it's own sport based on them.

There's a thin line between the two things, but I think there is a line. Whether it was crossed in this case, without seeing the evidence, hard to say.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Comparing this to the Patriot's thing is kind of silly. The worst outcome of what Belichick and Company did was that they unfairly gained a competitive advantage. Obvious, the worst outcome possible in this case is someone being paralyzed or otherwise permanently injured. Apples and oranges.

Yes - but isn't that the worst possible outcome in any football game, regardless of bounties or no bounties?

 

[Neophyte]

Yes Lanky, it is. But intent is what counts.

 

[Boone]

Are you arguing that, because severe injury can happen in any circumstance, that somehow makes it acceptable to encourage players to make it happen? I'm not saying that's what went on here - the NFL is - but if it did go on, it's far, far worse than someone shooting illegal videotape (or any other attempt to 'cheat'). Saying they are comparable is like saying tax evasion and rape are equally heinous because they're 'both crimes'.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

I'm saying players have been encouraged to "kill," "maim," "destroy" since probably Pop Warner and definitely since high school; bounty gate is nothing new. I think there is a gray area when it comes to clean hits or dirty hits; but going for the knees, for example, is a clean play according to the rules of football. Before this year (last year, maybe?) a head shot was not illegal either.

I'm saying its like writing tickets for jaywalking - sure, its illegal, but everybody jaywalks. Should it be illegal? That's another discussion altogether. However punishing one team for football culture, especially THIS harshly, seems way over the top to me.

 

[Neophyte]

The difference here is the check isn't for a big hit but for knocking guys out of the game, Mike.

 

[Anne The Fan]

If Goodell wants to punish the Saints for placing bounties on opposing players, that’s fine. More than fine; it’s appropriate. But to claim that he’s doing it in part to protect, in his words, “the integrity of the game” is laughable. Actually, it’s bull****. The Patriots had more DVDs in their back room than a porn shop and they got a relative slap on the wrist.

I understand also that the punishment was more severe because the Saints allegedly lied about what was going on. In his words, the Patriots “were cooperative” once their misdeeds came to light. Sure they were. Believing that they got rid of their entire stash is like believing that an alcoholic poured out all of his beer.

I’m not saying that the Saints shouldn’t have been punished; what they did was wrong and beyond acceptable behavior. I just think the punishment is too harsh and Goodell’s explanations for their severity feel disingenuous.