Random Redskins Thoughts

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riggins44

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Henry you are right in Shanahan wanted Allen. Again you are right on Allen's track record before arriving here. Interesting Allen didn't stand by Shanahan and instead wiggled his way into favor with Snyder.

I hope and pray Rivera and the organization he is putting together will be different.
 

Win4us

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I'd rather have Rivera at this point with no asterisks by his name.

Thinking the patsies are gonna get hit hard with the new taping allegations too. Hope so anyway
 

Om

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Has there ever been a multiple SB winning coach who left that team and won another somewhere else? Or even a one-time winner doing it?

I'm thinking of Jimmy Johnson, Mike Shanahan… Their second stops were really not so awesome.


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Win4us

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Has there ever been a multiple SB winning coach who left that team and won another somewhere else? Or even a one-time winner doing it?

I'm thinking of Jimmy Johnson, Mike Shanahan… Their second stops were really not so awesome.


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Pretty sure only Shula took both the Colts and Dolphins but only won with the fish

Edit: Parcells won with the gnats and lost with the patriots
Dick Vermiel lost with trash birds and won with rams
 
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Fear The Spear

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Has there ever been a multiple SB winning coach who left that team and won another somewhere else? Or even a one-time winner doing it?

I'm thinking of Jimmy Johnson, Mike Shanahan… Their second stops were really not so awesome.
Yea, but...

the last time that a Head Coach left the Patriots...he won the Super Bowl with his very next NFL team as HC.

Pete Carroll.

Don't you all want to keep that trend going ?
 
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fansince62

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Woulda been nice....very nice.....kinda like Lombardi coming to straighten things out. I agree with the post in the thread vis Bad Bill working for Snyder being an improbable outcome. Which, of course, once again, brings to mind the same question for Rivera and the traveling Panther minstrel show.

If true, suggest anything about how Bad Bill views Haskins' potential?
 

SilentThreat

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Andy Reid got there and lost with Philly and is playing tomorrow for a realistic shot to go back.

The last 20 years are impossible to follow trends because of the dominance of the Pats. They literally went 10 years without playing on wildcard weekend. They beat some really REALLY good teams that likely could have given a better data point.


Most SB winning coaches dont coach another team after they leave because they dont leave til theyre done. Shanny didnt win here because he came to a bad organization.. and he likely shifted his focus from winning, to setting up Kyle. Gibbs came back to that same bad organization.

Of the 'current' SB winning HC how many are there?

Jon Gruden-Year 2 of a project
Tomlin-Still in Pitt
Billick-on tv
Cowher-on tv
Kubiak-asst coach in Minnesota
Pederson-still in philly
Dungy-on tv
Coughlin-out of football after exec role
Carrol-still with Sea

Am i missing any? Gruden and Shanny are the only 2 there that had a HC gig after they won a SB

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fansince62

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My first thought as well ST. Additionally, these recycling moves of former SB winning HCs (heck winning HCs who retire or are let go) lean to investing the past winner with significant control beyond the average for NFL HCs. My observstion is that this doesn't usually work out well. There is a differnce between gettng what you want by collaboration and shared vision with the power players in an organization and having the power to make all final decisions.

In the end, it comes down to DS being responsible for shaping the vision and lettng everyone know expections and accountability. Even in the Pats organization, Bad Bill didn't have the power some imagine. He was opposed to letting Garappolo go and, if whispering is true, did not want to keep Brady into his 40s.

Sidebar: as for Shanhan...I honestly believe he came here for the money and to set up his son's future.
 

Boone

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I'm not 100% sure I buy that Shanny didn't win 'because of the organization' - the dysfunction certainly didn't help but I think he had a hand in a lot of the drama himself.

Here's how I see it. Coaches are human beings. Once you've climbed a mountain and been to the top, the motivation to do everything it takes to get there again is usually diminished. It's simply human nature. Achieving a huge goal, one naturally loses some of the drive, intensity, and motivation to achieve it again.

The other aspect is, it's incredibly difficult to get to a Super Bowl, and to win one - much less return repeatedly. So many things have to go right and work. Not only do you have to assemble a team of coaches that mesh, get the best out of their players, and keep them from continually getting poached by other teams, you have to obtain/grow the talent on your roster, and have systems that take advantage of their unique talents. Do all those things well and you may consistently get to the playoffs. Then you have to hope that you don't experience any crippling injuries, outcoach other outstanding coaches every game enroute, and hope you aren't the victim of horrible game-turning officiating calls. And on top of all that - you have to have some luck.

Look at Joe Gibbs in his 2nd gig. Does anyone really believe Joe wasn't the same football genius and master motivator in round 2 that he was in round 1? He was exactly the same guy. But he lacked many of the things required to truly succeed. A great front office, players that fit what he was trying to do and had the talent to get it done. Even luck conspired against him as we had some brutally bad luck in his playoff appearances.

Taking two or more franchises all the way to Super Bowls is an incredibly rare accomplishment for an NFL head coach - because it's an incredibly hard challenge.
 

SilentThreat

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I'm not 100% sure I buy that Shanny didn't win 'because of the organization' - the dysfunction certainly didn't help but I think he had a hand in a lot of the drama himself.

Here's how I see it. Coaches are human beings. Once you've climbed a mountain and been to the top, the motivation to do everything it takes to get there again is usually diminished. It's simply human nature. Achieving a huge goal, one naturally loses some of the drive, intensity, and motivation to achieve it again.

The other aspect is, it's incredibly difficult to get to a Super Bowl, and to win one - much less return repeatedly. So many things have to go right and work. Not only do you have to assemble a team of coaches that mesh, get the best out of their players, and keep them from continually getting poached by other teams, you have to obtain/grow the talent on your roster, and have systems that take advantage of their unique talents. Do all those things well and you may consistently get to the playoffs. Then you have to hope that you don't experience any crippling injuries, outcoach other outstanding coaches every game enroute, and hope you aren't the victim of horrible game-turning officiating calls. And on top of all that - you have to have some luck.

Look at Joe Gibbs in his 2nd gig. Does anyone really believe Joe wasn't the same football genius and master motivator in round 2 that he was in round 1? He was exactly the same guy. But he lacked many of the things required to truly succeed. A great front office, players that fit what he was trying to do and had the talent to get it done. Even luck conspired against him as we had some brutally bad luck in his playoff appearances.

Taking two or more franchises all the way to Super Bowls is an incredibly rare accomplishment for an NFL head coach - because it's an incredibly hard challenge.
Shanny was part of the problem.. he was part of the organization. I think he has different results had he gone somewhere else for his second stint, that was a better run team. That logic applies to any HC, bad coaches do better when the organization puts them in a better position to win. Im not convinced Shanny wins a SB elsewhere, but i have zero doubt that we held him back.


Andy Reid doesnt get enough credit fo what he has done. He has zero ego regarding system. He ALWAYS works his system to fit his talent, and he consistently wins. Had he not run into the beginning of a dynasty in New England in 04, he bucks the notion that he cant win the big game. He was in philly til 2012 but was always fighting that... had he gotten over that hump .. who knows what happens.

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Fear The Spear

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Has there ever been a multiple SB winning coach who left that team and won another somewhere else? Or even a one-time winner doing it?
I found one.
Tom Flores.
He did it, and he's the only one to do it.
Won a SB in Oakland, then went to LA, and won it there.
 

Fear The Spear

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Brings up a question I've been longing to know for years.
What the constitutes a team ?
Oakland moves to LA. Same team.
Cleveland moves to Baltimore. Same owner. Same roster. Same everything. But it's not considered the same team.
etc
 
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Elephant

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Yea...technically he said "somewhere else"...so by that definition, Oakland and LA are 'somewhere else' from each other :)
Well, before he said "somewhere else" he did said "left the team...", so "by definition" he'd have to have coached for a different team.
 

Boone

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Well - this isn't good...

 
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