Random Commanders Thoughts

[SkinsFTW]

He had gotten used to running personnel in Denver (mostly poorly, with some big hits on offense and total tragedy on defense), and nobody else in the NFL wanted him doing that. I’m not saying he would’ve gone un-hired, but I bet his market was going to be less hot than we’d think. And he wanted a guarantee that he could bring along Kyle, who at that time was unproven and got a lot of shit for being a nepo hire.

He came here because he thought he secured roster control, by being able to handpick Bruce Allen ahead of time (to be hired “before him”) expecting a yes-man. He didn’t anticipate that the real danger with Snyder was adding another conniving snake to the viper nest, who would eventually win the power struggle by pulling a Grima Wormtongue and out-politicking him in the box seats while Mike focused on football matters.

Yeah those reasons are why I didn't even want Snyder to hire Shanahan at the time. Shanahan never won anything without that great defense+ TD and Elway. Once he controlled everything they went downhill. I was also totally against Bruce before he was hired because he never did anything besides help Gruden ruin the Bucs.

Then 3+ years later somehow I was one of the few on ES defending Shanahan after the Snyder+RG3 fiasco.

I can't remember who I did want them to hire but I laughed my ass off when they traded for McNugget. After the Zorn years all you could really reliably do is laugh at the incompetence.

 

[NoCalSkins]

I think having JD5 on this team changed the perception of building a team over the long term to get sustainable winning. I know Jayden Daniels is going to cost a lot of money in a couple seasons but I see other teams paying their elite QBs and still managing to build contender caliber teams. Sometimes I wonder what would the personnel on the team look like if we had traded that #2 pick for a haul and finished under 6 wins in 2024 and then again in 2025. Maybe the overall roster looks better at this point. I still wouldn't personally trade the scenario for getting a franchise QB right out of the gate, but it does put into question how much is a reasonable ask for a young QB to shoulder when so far in his early career the roster around him is nowhere near what most would consider a championship caliber team.

 

[Mickalino]

6 days until Training Camp, but paloffs is now !

 

[Ashburn Dave]

It can't get here soon enough.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

With most things, the truth is usually somewhere in the middle. I think it's fair to say that the Shanahans have a well-deserved reputation for being stubborn and authoritative coaches. I don't know if Griffin was the QB they wanted or if he was imposed on them. It certainly would've been hard to argue not to take Griffin based on his college career. It's also hard to know how well his personality and attitude could be fully vetted prior to getting to the pros. To a certain extent, you can never fully know how a college player will transition to the NFL, so I don't put what eventually happened on either the GM or the scouts or the Shanahans. But I do ultimately put Griffin's failure to replicate that amazing rookie year and his inability to grow and expand his QBing ability on him - not his coaches. Those who will defend RG3 will say that there is no way to know what went on behind the scenes, that the Shanahans didn't manage Griffin well, etc... and those things may be true at some level. But I think it what we have heard and especially, what we saw even after Griffin left DC and even now out of football, is that he has an over-sized ego, never fully embraced his role and responsbility in addressing the flaws and weaknesses in his game, and spends a lot of time blaming others for his shortcomings. Those qualities are not particularly helpful in becoming a successful career starting QB in the NFL.

I got a bit confused here. You started out kind of saying there was equal blame. Then you illustrated pretty well how 90% of this was on Griff. Which I agree with. I'd say closer to 95%.

 

[Conn]

I think having JD5 on this team changed the perception of building a team over the long term to get sustainable winning. I know Jayden Daniels is going to cost a lot of money in a couple seasons but I see other teams paying their elite QBs and still managing to build contender caliber teams. Sometimes I wonder what would the personnel on the team look like if we had traded that #2 pick for a haul and finished under 6 wins in 2024 and then again in 2025. Maybe the overall roster looks better at this point. I still wouldn't personally trade the scenario for getting a franchise QB right out of the gate, but it does put into question how much is a reasonable ask for a young QB to shoulder when so far in his early career the roster around him is nowhere near what most would consider a championship caliber team.

I don’t think there’s a guarantee the roster would look obviously markedly better, the way AP has drafted. Just being brutally honest, I think he’s improving and can become a really good GM. He’s got the pedigree and makeup for it. But he isn’t yet, and everything this team has accomplished so far has been on the arm and legs of the QB (which AP does get credit for).

Always take the QB when the draft selection and the talent match up. You don’t know when you’ll get another chance. If in your hypothetical AP could have built a good, deep roster without the QB, he should certainly be able to do so around the QB, given all the sins good quarterback play can cover up (as we saw in 2024).

 

[RedWolf]

I don’t think there’s a guarantee the roster would look obviously markedly better, the way AP has drafted. Just being brutally honest, I think he’s improving and can become a really good GM. He’s got the pedigree and makeup for it. But he isn’t yet, and everything this team has accomplished so far has been on the arm and legs of the QB (which AP does get credit for).

Always take the QB when the draft selection and the talent match up. You don’t know when you’ll get another chance. If in your hypothetical AP could have built a good, deep roster without the QB, he should certainly be able to do so around the QB, given all the sins good quarterback play can cover up (as we saw in 2024).

I'm going to go back to my old adage and say that he inherited a fucking nightmare of a roster as well as a team so I'm giving him extra rope

 

[Ghost of Sarge]

I'm going to go back to my old adage and say that he inherited a fucking nightmare of a roster as well as a team so I'm giving him extra rope

Yeah, but it was disturbing how he sat back on the draft after his first year when we went to the NFC championship. In the draft the following year, he acted like we had all the core players to make the Super Bowl the following year when that was the farthest thing from the truth. Can't say I'm overly impressed with him in this years draft either, nor free agency

 

[burgold]

Yeah, but it was disturbing how he sat back on the draft after his first year when we went to the NFC championship. In the draft the following year, he acted like we had all the core players to make the Super Bowl the following year when that was the farthest thing from the truth. Can't say I'm overly impressed with him in this years draft either, nor free agency

I really liked this year's free agent haul except for at wide receiver. Loved what we did at end, tight end, linebacker, and safety. I'm fine with what we did at running back and corner. Maybe WR trumps everything else for you? I can see that, but it feels like a good crop of players.

 

[Commander Wraith]

I don’t think there’s a guarantee the roster would look obviously markedly better, the way AP has drafted. Just being brutally honest, I think he’s improving and can become a really good GM. He’s got the pedigree and makeup for it. But he isn’t yet, and everything this team has accomplished so far has been on the arm and legs of the QB (which AP does get credit for).

Always take the QB when the draft selection and the talent match up. You don’t know when you’ll get another chance. If in your hypothetical AP could have built a good, deep roster without the QB, he should certainly be able to do so around the QB, given all the sins good quarterback play can cover up (as we saw in 2024).

Man, I really hope some of the draftees suffered from issues with “fit” (which is still arguably a mark against Peters), usage or surrounding personnel and that they start to show more going forward. Not super optimistic though.

Interesting that a lot of the guys that have underwhelmed are also facing serious competition, so it could make it that much harder to judge them. (I’m mainly thinking of Luke, Lane, Coleman, Magee and our three 2nd rounders)

 

[burgold]

I don't know that I think Coleman underwhelmed. From what I remember, he was actually the highest rated rookie left tackle of his draft class. I was surprised when they got Tunsil then doubled it up with Connerly. He has underwhelmed at guard, but as a tackle he's really been quite good.

 

[Conn]

Man, I really hope some of the draftees suffered from issues with “fit” (which is still arguably a mark against Peters), usage or surrounding personnel and that they start to show more going forward. Not super optimistic though.

Interesting that a lot of the guys that have underwhelmed are also facing serious competition, so it could make it that much harder to judge them. (I’m mainly thinking of Luke, Lane, Coleman, Magee and our three 2nd rounders)

Or, alternatively, easier to judge them because if they get lost in the wash going into year 2/3 when roles are open for the taking, it sort of says it all

 

[Commander Wraith]

I don't know that I think Coleman underwhelmed. From what I remember, he was actually the highest rated rookie left tackle of his draft class. I was surprised when they got Tunsil then doubled it up with Connerly. He has underwhelmed at guard, but as a tackle he's really been quite good.

Yeah, that’s fair - underwhelmed probably isn’t the best word for Coleman. And it’s worth adding that he has value as a backup to Tunsil. Losing the starting LG job last year, and possibly not earning the starting nod this year isn’t great of course. It’s tricky too as it’s difficult to contribute as a backup olineman, whereas the others I mentioned can at least produce on teams.

Either way, Peters (and the team) could really use a win from that group, especially the 2nd rounders.

 

[Commander Wraith]

Or, alternatively, easier to judge them because if they get lost in the wash going into year 2/3 when roles are open for the taking, it sort of says it all

I hear you. I guess we’ll see how it plays out. To me, Williams playing ahead of Luke/Lane, Chig over Sinnott, Chenal/Styles/Luvu over Magee, Paul over Coleman, Payne/Kinlaw over Newton… doesn’t inherently mean they’re not growing or that they couldn’t handle the duties. Of course the inverse is also true - earning reps doesn’t necessarily make them good or good picks (see Luke/Lane getting snaps at least in part due to injuries last year).

 

[Conn]

I hear you. I guess we’ll see how it plays out. To me, Williams playing ahead of Luke/Lane, Chig over Sinnott, Chenal/Styles/Luvu over Magee, Paul over Coleman, Payne/Kinlaw over Newton… doesn’t inherently mean they’re not growing or that they couldn’t handle the duties. Of course the inverse is also true - earning reps doesn’t necessarily make them good or good picks (see Luke/Lane getting snaps at least in part due to injuries last year).

Yeah, but those are all positions that can have heavy rotations except for (usually) OL. Those guys should be earning snaps and making plays when they get their opportunities, and they’ll have that opportunity, even if they aren’t getting starter’s snaps. Guys earn more by flashing when they get opportunities, so if they’re going to break out it’ll still happen naturally imo

 

[Commander Wraith]

Yeah, but those are all positions that can have heavy rotations except for (usually) OL. Those guys should be earning snaps and making plays when they get their opportunities, and they’ll have that opportunity, even if they aren’t getting starter’s snaps. Guys earn more by flashing when they get opportunities, so if they’re going to break out it’ll still happen naturally imo

Somewhat agree here in terms of rotation. 4th LBs (if that’s where Magee lands) rarely see the field except for injuries, and corners are rarely rotated (though injuries are common there). So it’s mostly about Luke, Lane, Sinnott, and Newton.

How things play out with Luke and Lane will be interesting. We’ll probably be in 11 personnel something like 45-60%, so if they’re used as slot receivers only and Williams earns the bulk of the slot reps, there may not be much room for them (and they’re competing with each other). Of course, I imagine Luke gets practice time at Z, so maybe that changes things?

Assuming Yankoff (or Cager) doesn’t poach reps, I’d guess Sinnott probably sees 20-30% of snaps. If about a half of those are run plays, it’s going to be tough for him to get targets. Barring an injury to Okonkwo, I’ll be shocked if Sinnott sees 2 targets a game.

Newton is the big one and really highlights your point - DTs see a whole lot of rotation. I think they could make use of his ability to pass rush/penetrate, but I could also see him not fitting if we really mimic how Flores often required selfless, gap occupying DTs. They also have some ends that can play that penetrating role (particularly Omenihu and Wise). IMO, he’s got maybe the biggest boom/bust potential of all these draft picks.

Broadly speaking though, I don’t really disagree with your point - most of these guys will have a chance to shine, no matter how limited. If Lane (for example) has a high drop rate even if it’s limited snaps… won’t be a good look. I could see a number of guys being “solid” contributors (with very limited production given a lack of opportunity), but it still not answering how good they actually are.

 

[skinsinparadise]

The lack of hype about this team from the national media and the hype about the Giants is wild. Even the Ryan Clark dismissal had some it with one of his last segments was comparing Likely to Kelce.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

How can you not like the Giants to be massively improved? A big problem there was coaching and they got a proven winner. They also took 2 very highly rated prospects at the top of the draft, filling a big hole on the OL in the process along with an impact edge.

Skattabo terrifies me, he is about as powerful a RB as I've ever seen. Defenders literally bounce off of him. People are going a bit overboard on Dart, and of course QB is the key to every team, but he does show promise and if he pans out we are in trouble.

 

[SkinsFTW]

Slow down buddy. Let's see Skat last half a season first.

Relying on Dart, Scattebo and Nabors seems like a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Slow down buddy. Let's see Skat last half a season first.

Relying on Dart, Scattebo and Nabors seems like a disaster waiting to happen.

Can't the Giants say the same thing about Daniels? Dart is still a wild card but I believe there are a number of teams who would go to bat with those 3.