Random Commanders Thoughts

[burgold]

Wasn't his most accomplished receiver though Steve Smith? Not a giant just a tough guy.

 

[Canadian Hog]

Wasn't his most accomplished receiver though Steve Smith? Not a giant just a tough guy.

Absolutely.

There just always seemed to be a role for the bigger body. Same with the running back position - he had guys like Jonathan Stewart and Mike Tolbert at 240 lbs. getting regular duty in the backfield.

I wouldn't be shocked to see either of those common features of his past team's being added by the time the draft is over.

Physicality.

 

[Rhino-Rhino]

Cam Sims who I believe they resigned for that reason fits that bill at 6’5 220 but I’m with ya C hog

 

[Lovin Cousins]

You could be onto something, but keep in mind that Rivera said that he learned a lot from his first tenure, and would do some things differently his 2nd time around due to the learning process, in finding reasons why he fell short the last time.
With that said, I wouldn't necessarily expect him to replicate his prototype players and team in exact fashion.
People tried that with Cam Newton, constantly expecting to Rivera to either bring back Newton himself, or another QB just like him. But it was not to be.
Just trying to keep an open mind

 

[Chris]

I am devastated that come Monday I won’t have 2,345 mock drafts per day clogging up my social media feeds.

 

[Canadian Hog]

I am devastated that come Monday I won’t have 2,345 mock drafts per day clogging up my social media feeds.

Don't worry, Chris.

By Tuesday you can start reading early 2023 mock drafts with the added benefit of a mock draft order.

 

[Canadian Hog]

 

[burgold]

Losing Ion, Settle, and Payne in one year is not only really bad player management, but practically malpractice. Where's the overall plan?

Hope this isn't true, but if it is, don't let this be another Kirk, Trent, Scherff situation. Get more value than a compensatory 3rd.

 

[Boone]

Trade his ass and draft his replacement. Not sure I agree burgold. You can’t have a shit ton of your salary dollars tied up in one position. Maybe they could have kept one of those guys. Ionnadis best years are likely behind him and he only played a full season once in his 6 seasons. Settle I would’ve liked to have kept. I think Payne wants big money and we know about other possible factors. Possible they plan on drafting his replacement. If we get good compensation for him, I’m fine with letting him go.

 

[Primus Porcus]

Trade his ass and draft his replacement. Not sure I agree burgold. You can’t have a shit ton of your salary dollars tied up in one position. Maybe they could have kept one of those guys. Ionnadis best years are likely behind him and he only played a full season once in his 6 seasons. Settle I would’ve liked to have kept. I think Payne wants big money and we know about other possible factors. Possible they plan on drafting his replacement. If we get good compensation for him, I’m fine with letting him go.

I actually agree.

We invested FIRST round picks in 5 consecutive seasons along the D-line, at some point the rest of the roster is going to suffer a double whammy between 1, needing to pay them, and 2, not having First round picks in other position groups.

Allen is an anchor, and moving Payne solidifies him as THE GUY along the D-line for the forseeable future. I don't think Payne, Ioannidis, or Sweat have what Allen has regarding that leadership trait. I think Young is a bit of a 'little brother' who's the big loud energetic type, and Allen is the big brother walking along side him.

A name that keeps sticking in my head (thanks to Canadian Hog on our last POD ) is Perrion Winfrey. If we flipped Payne for a couple picks (I think he's 'worth' a late first but I dont think we can get that due to his going into his final season) like a 2nd and a 4th, we could take a guy like Winfrey with that 'extra' 2nd round pick and be really interesting. I think Wise / Smith Williams / Winfrey can handle the interior of that line with Winfrey being the 'pass rusher' in situational downs. That also means you have 11 (which I still think its possible we move back) and the current 2nd round pick to address other positions... it also means you've got a starting (rotational) DT on a rookie deal to help keep cost down instead of paying Payne.

 

[Canadian Hog]

Absolutely, Derek.

Don't forget that Star Lotulelei i is available as well (with obvious ties to Ron) to add as additional DL depth if we so chose. He is a guy that has played about 40-50% of snaps the last few years in Buffalo and would be a good rotational piece.

If you add a few extra picks with Payne, get a very capable Winfrey on the cheap to plug in alongside Allen, and have the likes of Lotulelei, Wise, and Smith-Williams as added depth on the interior, that is not bad at all. More importantly, it's a sound plan from an economical standpoint as well.

 

[burgold]

Trade his ass and draft his replacement. Not sure I agree burgold. You can’t have a shit ton of your salary dollars tied up in one position. Maybe they could have kept one of those guys. Ionnadis best years are likely behind him and he only played a full season once in his 6 seasons. Settle I would’ve liked to have kept. I think Payne wants big money and we know about other possible factors. Possible they plan on drafting his replacement. If we get good compensation for him, I’m fine with letting him go.

My concern is getting rid of all three at once.

Before, we had a really strong D line with great depth. Should we trade Payne, we will lose Payne, Ion, and Settle all in one offseason. That makes a strength into almost a void. Now, you can make a good argument for any or all of those moves, but doing them simultaneously leaves you with Allen and scrubs in the middle of the D Line. If you knew you were getting rid of Payne then you probably needed to at least keep Settle.

 

[Boone]

The only thing I will criticize Rivera and company for is, if your plan was to move Payne, why in the hell didn’t you do it prior to many teams filling their needs in free agency? That’s when you have leverage. Now - if we make it clear we are moving him, teams have no need to pay us value, and there are far fewer teams in desperate need of a starting DT. I just don’t get it.

 

[Boone]

My concern is getting rid of all three at once.

Before, we had a really strong D line with great depth. Should we trade Payne, we will lose Payne, Ion, and Settle all in one offseason. That makes a strength into almost a void. Now, you can make a good argument for any or all of those moves, but doing them simultaneously leaves you with Allen and scrubs in the middle of the D Line. If you knew you were getting rid of Payne then you probably needed to at least keep Settle.

The off-season isn’t over. They surely have plans at that spot. And we need depth at DL. We are set with starters so I can’t agree with ‘void’.

But yeah, that’s a lot of talent to say goodbye to at one time, hard not to acknowledge that

 

[burgold]

The other issue is fit. You can't just cut an entire positional group (practically) and expect to sign/draft a whole bunch of replacements and have them fit in seamlessly. We know that better than most teams. Cutting Ryan Clark for Archuletta doesn't work. Grabbing Jermiah Trotter doesn't work. Sometimes, William Jackson is worse on your team than Ronald Darby. Stated a different way, the guys who look right on paper or even on tape don't actually mesh. Even if they do, it takes time for the player to get up to speed in terms of the playbook and build chemistry with the guy next to him. Team construction isn't that easy.

The above plan sounds fine. It could work. Then again, we have no idea how these players will play together or play in this scheme.

 

[Boone]

Let’s be honest … it’s not like our guys looked like a finally tuned machine most of last season. Allen is a beast but other than him, who are the guys that looked like all Pros on the DL again? If that’s ‘meshing’ I ain’t skeered of new blood.

 

[Primus Porcus]

The other issue is fit. You can't just cut an entire positional group (practically) and expect to sign/draft a whole bunch of replacements and have them fit in seamlessly. We know that better than most teams. Cutting Ryan Clark for Archuletta doesn't work. Grabbing Jermiah Trotter doesn't work. Sometimes, William Jackson is worse on your team than Ronald Darby. Stated a different way, the guys who look right on paper or even on tape don't actually mesh. Even if they do, it takes time for the player to get up to speed in terms of the playbook and build chemistry with the guy next to him. Team construction isn't that easy.

The above plan sounds fine. It could work. Then again, we have no idea how these players will play together or play in this scheme.

I agree, but Wise / Smith Williams were on the team last year, so fit it's not really a concern with them, and they are capable of rotating through.

I do agree with your bigger point that losing 3 in an offseason is painful... especially when you get NOTHING for 2 of the 3. That aint great business. A 6th round pick is better than NOTHING.

 

[Boone]

I don’t think they trade him for the reasons I stated - they have no leverage now and will get low ball offers. There’s also the issue of him being owed 8.5 million dollars this season. Not many teams at this point will want to take that on and we can’t eat it - so there’s that

 

[Canadian Hog]

If you figure you can compete in the NFC East this year, it might not necessarily be the worst thing in the world to keep Daron around for a year without throwing a rookie to the wolves. It affords you another year to groom depth and find future replacements. There are a lot of ways to look at it.

At the end of the day though, Daron Payne is going to be part of the cost of doing business with Terry McLaurin and I am quite alright with that.

 

[Lovin Cousins]

I am devastated that come Monday I won’t have 2,345 mock drafts per day clogging up my social media feeds.

Don't worry, Chris.

By Tuesday you can start reading early 2023 mock drafts with the added benefit of a mock draft order.

Oh, but you will still have over 5,000 Draft Grades and Report Cards, on the 2022 draft, within minutes of Mr Irrelevant being picked