Random Commanders Thoughts

[MikefromOH]

if we dont get that OL shored up, it won't matter if we have Brady behind center. They are going to be slaughtered.

 

[Boone]

I also think that, we give short shrift to one of the other things Om has noted and that Rivera could not have missed.

Haskins got better every single outing last year and by the end of the season was looking damn good. He has yet to have an eye-popping ‘wow’ game but we’re talking a Bill Callahan offense here. For a rookie, he did a lot to show what his potential could be in those last few starts.

 

[Primus Porcus]

I also think that, we give short shrift to one of the other things Om has noted and that Rivera could not have missed.

Haskins got better every single outing last year and by the end of the season was looking damn good. He has yet to have an eye-popping ‘wow’ game but we’re talking a Bill Callahan offense here. For a rookie, he did a lot to show what his potential could be in those last few starts.

I think he was on his way to a 'Wow' game in week 16. 12/15 - 133yds - 2td - 0int - 143.2 rating.

The big play hadn't happened yet, but you could see the game plan. Quick drops, get the ball out, there was a play in that game where Haskins stepped up through the pocket, broke outside and hit Sims for a TD throwing the ball about .5 yard before he crossed the LOS.... across his body on the run. It was one of those plays that you saw that made you say to yourself, 'ok, this kid has something.'

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[MikefromOH]

he did have a few "big wow plays" but were called back due to penalties.

 

[Boone]

Agreed guys. But one reason Daniel Jones is now widely considered to be a better bet than Haskins is that he DID have some 'wow' games, especially for a rookie. Set aside the shitload of fumbles Jones had, he looked like a huge score for the Giants and was much better than most of us thought he would be. Haskins looked shaky at times by comparison.

To be fair, after the obligatory Eli farewell, Jones was allowed to get out there right away and work through his rookie roadbumps and start getting comfortable playing against NFL competition. There's no telling how much more progress Haskins would've made if they'd just let him take his lumps and start right away as most teams that draft QBs in the 1st round do.

But Haskins has yet to have a game where you could say 'he put the team on his back and willed them to a win'. I believe those kinds of games will come, but his numbers in 2019 were pretty pedestrian in comparison to Jones in particular. Very interested to see what he can do in 2019 (if he wins the starting gig) with a modern offense and competent coaching.

 

[Ax]

But Haskins has yet to have a game where you could say 'he put the team on his back and willed them to a win'.

Well then, he's right there with Cousins, already!

 

[MikefromOH]

 

[Primus Porcus]

Agreed guys. But one reason Daniel Jones is now widely considered to be a better bet than Haskins is that he DID have some 'wow' games, especially for a rookie. Set aside the shitload of fumbles Jones had, he looked like a huge score for the Giants and was much better than most of us thought he would be. Haskins looked shaky at times by comparison.

To be fair, after the obligatory Eli farewell, Jones was allowed to get out there right away and work through his rookie roadbumps and start getting comfortable playing against NFL competition. There's no telling how much more progress Haskins would've made if they'd just let him take his lumps and start right away as most teams that draft QBs in the 1st round do.

But Haskins has yet to have a game where you could say 'he put the team on his back and willed them to a win'. I believe those kinds of games will come, but his numbers in 2019 were pretty pedestrian in comparison to Jones in particular. Very interested to see what he can do in 2019 (if he wins the starting gig) with a modern offense and competent coaching.

You're 100% right that he wasn't given the same opportunity as Jones, so to compare them isn't really fair.


To go further, Haskins was literally handcuffed by Gruden early in the year, then thrown to the wolves for 2 of his 7 starts with no real reps in practice the weeks leading up to each of those games... being put in because of injury. Vs NYG and Vs Minn, he did not start. Vs Minn was a prime time game, and he attempted 5 passes... so If we really want to look at it, he only prepared with the team for 5 games. (actually it was 7 starts)

That game vs the Giants, I actually believe we would have won it if Haskins doesn't go down, and I think that game was set up to be that type of "put a team on your back" type of game. It ended up being high scoring as all get out, but I think Haskins was playing a lot better than Keenum ultimately did. \


Picking nits here i get it, and you're point is valid...


Edit: I misspoke, he started 7 games, and played in 9. Point still stand, but I admit I was off on my numbers.

 

[Elephant]

You're 100% right that he wasn't given the same opportunity as Jones, so to compare them isn't really fair.


To go further, Haskins was literally handcuffed by Gruden early in the year, then thrown to the wolves for 2 of his 7 starts with no real reps in practice the weeks leading up to each of those games... being put in because of injury.

Handcuffed? In his first action against the Giants, it was obvious he was not prepared...not handcuffed, but saved from himself to that point since he ad no grasp of the playbook. And like I said before, it was probably the eye opener Haskins needed, as well as, everyone who thought he was ready.

Jones looked good in his start against us because he was prepared. Fast forward to the end of the season you can see Jones fizzled out because he'd pretty much reached his ceiling while Haskins kept progressing, albeit it baby steps...he still got better each week.

He was not handcuffed, he should have been the 3rd string QB behind McCoy.

 

[MikefromOH]

he didnt run with the 1s
he held a clipboard most of the season
and, he was thrown in a game without even having ONE warm up rep. You usually see competent coaches warm up their backups if they are coming in. But, I did say competent.

 

[Primus Porcus]

Handcuffed? In his first action against the Giants, it was obvious he was not prepared...not handcuffed, but saved from himself to that point since he ad no grasp of the playbook. And like I said before, it was probably the eye opener Haskins needed, as well as, everyone who thought he was ready.

Jones looked good in his start against us because he was prepared. Fast forward to the end of the season you can see Jones fizzled out because he'd pretty much reached his ceiling while Haskins kept progressing, albeit it baby steps...he still got better each week.

He was not handcuffed, he should have been the 3rd string QB behind McCoy.

It was no secret that Haskins didnt even take offensive reps from our playbook. He ran scout team. To expect a player to take a playbook and execute it at the NFL level without so much a single rep is unfair... not with 1s, 2s, or 3s.... he had no reps from our playbook. Jay did not rotate his qbs in practice. Starting QBs got practice reps, thats it.

 

[Boone]

I don't think anyone would argue that Haskins was set up for success or that he had the full commitment required from his coaches to develop much in his first season. We're just splitting hairs. Given the prep he received, what we observed was probably what we all should've expected.

 

[MikefromOH]

now THIS year is different. If he falters again, we can all say we need to draft Lawrence LOL

 

[Boone]

I think we need to see major progress this year, assuming he is the starter. But there are fans who will blame the front office and coaches if he doesn’t start or progress. ‘New offense’, ‘Rivera never wanted him’, ‘Kyle Allen got handed the job’, ‘Didn’t get enough practice time’, etc...

it’s what we do

 

[Primus Porcus]

I think we need to see major progress this year, assuming he is the starter. But there are fans who will blame the front office and coaches if he doesn’t start or progress. ‘New offense’, ‘Rivera never wanted him’, ‘Kyle Allen got handed the job’, ‘Didn’t get enough practice time’, etc...

it’s what we do

I agree, but i don't expect to see major progress in the first quarter of the season. I don't blame the front office, but i'm willing to take a look at the other factors working against him. In a NORMAL scenario, a 2nd year QB going into a season with a new coaching staff, who only played in 7 games last season (so only taking reps at the NFL for the 2nd half of the season) would be tough to overcome. Match that now with the fact that he can't have OTAs, likely no minicamps, shortened preseason, and possibly even an effected regular season.... he's got an uphill battle to climb. He has this season to prove that he can play at this level... THIS year. It kind of sucks for him, but it has to happen.

 

[Ax]

I think he's already proven he can play at the NFL level. Now it's just, at what level.
And I expect improvement across the board, at every position, THIS year. Not just QB.

Of course, if Tress Way gets any better, he may surpass Chuck Norris as the worlds most Bad Ass Mother******!

 

[MikefromOH]

OL, TE, another WR....in that order.

We can find OL and TE in the draft. WR we can get in FA. We have McLaurin who will be a #1 this year, but we need a vet who can still get it done and mentor him. Someone to take the pressure off as much as possible.

 

[Boone]

I don’t think there are any WRs still available in FA who would be an upgrade. Harmon is going to shock some people this year. I do think we add a WR in the draft, likely in Round 4 in one of the strongest classes in draft history.

 

[MikefromOH]

I think you need one in that group that has been around the league for a while that can teach them how to act. Not just off the field, but on as well. How to run routes, tendencies, how to properly trash talk.

I would have loved if Garcon was healthy enough to have come back. Not for 10mil per year, but he was a stud. Tough, great routes, and could trash talk better than any 2 WRs combined!

 

[Primus Porcus]

OL, TE, another WR....in that order.

We can find OL and TE in the draft. WR we can get in FA. We have McLaurin who will be a #1 this year, but we need a vet who can still get it done and mentor him. Someone to take the pressure off as much as possible.

I'm not holding my breath for a stud TE in the draft because the class is kind of weak. Kmet likely doesn't fall to us in the 3rd, and Claypool could be a stud if he moves to TE from WR, but his blocking is a question. I like Thad Moss, but I wonder if he makes it to day 3 either given the circumstances. He's likely a 3rd or 4th round talent, but i could see someone reaching a bit.

I do agree I would like a vet WR on this team. We're very young there, and some of that leadership would be good to have. I do however think we can get a stud in the draft, so i don't think we need to spend a lot in FA with the idea that on field production is the priority. If we were to get a guy like Demaryius Thomas, Chris Hogan, Jordan Matthews, or Jermaine Kearse for an inexpensive contract I would really like it. They're all 'older.' Have been with some of the most successful franchises, and none of them (I would assume) would be losing their mind about sitting behind a couple 2nd year players.