Random Commanders Thoughts

The only one in this conversation that has any clue what Turner is capable of is Rivera. He coached with him. What ‘favor' might we possibly imagine he owes the kid or Norv? There's only one thing I would hope we could all agree on, and that is that Rivera will want to succeed in DC and must have seen something in Turner that impressed him. He's certainly as experienced as KOC who was slapped with the wunderkind label simply because a couple of other Redskin coaching youngsters have had success. It's hilarious. Losing KOC is disastrous but hiring his doppelgänger in terms of experience is a disaster? This is a nonsense debate.


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My point is that I do not trust Rivera - this one move eviscerated any good will...at least for me. We have an ole school guy whose moment has passed - that's my take. None of you have presented any positive evidence AT ALL supporting Turner as OC. That speaks volumes to me. Go look up what he has actually done/accomplished. I can't find anything. Not a single thing.

My first pass take is that Rivera will be a solid coach who instills accountability and wins more games than most of his predecessors here in DC. I also think he will continue to be dogged, as he was in Carolina, for being a conservative dullard when it comes to strategic/out of the box thinking. The Turner hire reconfirms that initial impression.
 
Al, what has KOC done differently than Scott Turner to make you think he's more accomplished...worked with Haskins?

El...where have I said anything specific about KOC? You're making an assumption that may not be supportable. Again, I went an actually researched what Mr Turner Jr has accomplished/done. There's no there there. What I see Rivera doing is understandable in human terms - he's hiring people he's familiar with. He's entitled to do that. I prefer best of breed - not folks out of the league and Panther retreads.

Well, there is this to hope for: assuming we finally manage to do something about the secondary, the defensive talent should be used more intelligently by this staff than the last one.
 
None of you have presented any positive evidence AT ALL supporting Turner as OC. That speaks volumes to me. Go look up what he has actually done/accomplished. I can't find anything. Not a single thing.
The only thing I can find positive on him is that Sam Bradford and Teddy Bridgewater both enjoyed the best season of their career when he was their QB coach. Also, Josh Gordon's best season by far was the one year Scott Turner was his WR coach.
 
The only thing I can find positive on him is that Sam Bradford and Teddy Bridgewater both enjoyed the best season of their career when he was their QB coach. Also, Josh Gordon's best season by far was the one year Scott Turner was his WR coach.

Decent comeback. Of course, Bradford was a bust, TB a career back-up and Gordon probably could have benefitted from some character counseling.

In the evnt, I'll have to come to terms with the idea that we will watch hardnosed football that produces its share of victories...but nothing imaginative. We will move toward a more physical team, IMO, and will lose games where it comes down to coaching decisions at the crucial moment. All speculation at this point.
 
You're already spewing and the coaching staff isn't fully formed yet?

Wow.


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Same as it ever was. Same as it ever was. After 20 years, Lord Farquuad is going to have to SHOW some results with this "No GM Model" before I even begin to get excited again
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Zampese is an excellent QB coach. He'll be great for Haskins. Redskins fans, stop lamenting the O'Connell. I like that Rivera didn't just keep him for the sake of continuity. He's going for what he believes is better. <a href="https://t.co/GOSPwFO4qU">https://t.co/GOSPwFO4qU</a></p>— Mike Jones (@ByMikeJones) <a href="https://twitter.com/ByMikeJones/status/1214893831126159367?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 8, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
My only point in bringing up the OC change was not to tear Turner down as inexperienced because O'Connell was also.

But O'Connell knows Haskins and has worked with him for a year plus and helped set him on an upward trajectory.

Since the NFL is a ‘now' league one would think the fastest path to success is getting Haskins fully integrated and established as a starter, and IMO that would happen faster with some continuity.

Turner is bringing a new system and now we are almost back to September again with Dwayne having to swallow another playbook.

I just don't think that gets us farther towards starting 2020 strong. There's another learning curve and that is going to eat up some games.

The only way this move really makes sense is if Rivera is NOT enamored with Haskins and any sense of continuity is irrelevant to him.
 
That upward trajectory with Haskins was from sheer awfulness to a game-and-a-half of "Yeah, this guy might be a good NFL starter," so I certainly hope a staff not put together by Goober Gruden can keep him on that path.
 
Next to Spurrier Gruden was the coach that seemed to really not give a shit.

I am convinced that after failing to make the playoffs in 2016 with a gimme game against the Giants' backups that Gruden knew his goose was cooked.

The last 2 years were about banking the money and setting himself up for the future on the golf course.

Jay doesn't have the visible passion and emotion for the game like his brother.

Win or lose you know Jon Gruden feels the outcome of games and works OT hours to try and win.

Meanwhile per the video Jay was out there dancing and talking to girls his daughter's age and ending up sitting on the curb at 2am once the club closed.
 
Man, Jay was such an uninspiring loser. It's also telling that unlike other coaches, NOBODY has been rumored to interview him for head coach or offensive coordinator openings.
 
Meanwhile per the video Jay was out there dancing and talking to girls his daughter's age and ending up sitting on the curb at 2am once the club closed.

That was what bothered me most about the video. If he's creepin', that's between him and his wife. It was that the team was sucking hind teat and he was doing next to nothing about it when an older, diabetic Joe Gibbs would have been sleeping in Ashburn (or Herndon, as it twere in the day) to get things right. He clearly didn't care and it showed. Callahan did nothing more than real, basic prep and these guys still lost, but didn't look like an absolute joke doing so.
 
Same as it ever was. Same as it ever was. After 20 years, Lord Farquuad is going to have to SHOW some results with this "No GM Model" before I even begin to get excited again

Big difference between ‘show me' and howling at the moon with dire predictions and hand-wringing before the new HC even has the staff rebuild done.


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Big difference between ‘show me' and howling at the moon with dire predictions and hand-wringing before the new HC even has the staff rebuild done.


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No dire predictions here. No predictions at all. I'm just saying we've seen this before. Or has the memory of Shanahan faded? Even Gibbs 2? I well remember when Shanny came to town we were seeing and hearing the same things from both fans and the media. "Oh, he's been to the Suuuuuuuuuuuuper Booooooooooowl!" "He knows what he's doing" blah blah blah. Maybe this time there is hope, but the danny is still in the background, just like he's always been for the last 20 years. Color me jaded that anything is going to change.
 
As Pat Kirwan on NFL radio put it the other day: Cleaning out the Front Office this time of year is akin to firing the coaching staff in August.
We'll just have to wait until after the draft and see what changes are made.
 
None of us know how Rivera and any he choses will fair. Coaches get fired and go on to other teams and win SuperBowls. That's a more sure thing than a coach who has won one changing teams and winning another. So considering past success is not a great predictor, unless their past performance is truly abysmal. That's not the case with Rivera and he is widely respected as a good coach. What we are seeing is that a football person is in control of football decisions. If he kept KOC on and the offense sputtered, Snyder would be accused of forcing Rivera to keep KOC. We have screamed to have Snyder uninvolved with these decisions, so we can't bitch when the new guy in charge does what he feels is best. I'd have no problem if he decides Haskins isn't the guy. I just want a football mind making those decisions. All appearances are that Snyder will not be involved to a level we've not yet seen. I suspect he hit what he must surely have believed is bottom of the barrel disgrace.

That said, I would have preferred a strong football GM to be hired first. Snyder handing over decisions to Rivera is a good sign, but he kind of meddled by making the coaching decision instead of leaving it to a GM. I'm concerned if Rivera will succeed with his expanded duties and powers. Now, if after the draft they can find a good GM that aligns with the direction headed and leaves Rivera with only the team/players to focus on, it may work out well.

I would have loved to have a younger, innovative coach, but I think it highly unlikely an inexperienced coach would be able to correct/survive the chaos. And, the innovations they've been bringing will be quickly absorbed by the rest of the league and it will normalize until some time in the future when there is a new wave of innovation.
 
No dire predictions here. No predictions at all. I'm just saying we've seen this before. Or has the memory of Shanahan faded? Even Gibbs 2? I well remember when Shanny came to town we were seeing and hearing the same things from both fans and the media. "Oh, he's been to the Suuuuuuuuuuuuper Booooooooooowl!" "He knows what he's doing" blah blah blah. Maybe this time there is hope, but the danny is still in the background, just like he's always been for the last 20 years. Color me jaded that anything is going to change.

Fair and reasonable.
 
Nice post, stevenaa.

Only thing I'd add is that Snyder didn't make the decision to get Rivera w/o a GM first on his own, it was in strong consultation with Joe Gibbs. I'm old school...my stated preference has always been to hire the architect first, and have him pick the coach. But I have no real quibble with the "coach-centric" argument--as long as it's the right coach. The league continues to evolve, and there is evidence that model can work in the right circumstances.

The current thinking seems to be that after the draft, Rivera will figure out who he wants being the "GM" and we'll fly from there. Along with how the draft itself plays out, that will be something I watch very closely going forward.
 
There's no doubt Rivera is putting 'HIS' stamp on the front office and coaches, so any/all accolades along with criticisms need directed to him. To say some of these Carolina hires appear less than stellar is being far too kind. As long as he holds the staff to the same standard as the players regarding accountability then all good imo.

Basically if the offense is stagnant, WR's regress, Haskins reverts to his first 3 game form, QB fill in the blank gets maimed from 50+ sacks, etc, then Rivera sure as hell needs to own up. The thought of this offense not improving is a tad worrisome, but sink or swim it's Rivera's decisions and I'm all for accountability either way as long as it's even keel across the organization.

The defense on the other hand I can foresee less issues under Del Rio. He's got that side of the ball on lock and we should see immediate improvement in play.

In other words it's fine to give new coaches (to the team) a chance, but he cannot allow sub par coaching on any level or we're right back to square one
 
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No dire predictions here. No predictions at all. I'm just saying we've seen this before. Or has the memory of Shanahan faded? Even Gibbs 2? I well remember when Shanny came to town we were seeing and hearing the same things from both fans and the media. "Oh, he's been to the Suuuuuuuuuuuuper Booooooooooowl!" "He knows what he's doing" blah blah blah. Maybe this time there is hope, but the danny is still in the background, just like he's always been for the last 20 years. Color me jaded that anything is going to change.

I don't have any problem with that stance. There may be a few fans out there that think all of these changes guarantee success - but I haven't seen anyone here say anything close to that.
 

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