Random Commanders Thoughts

[fansince62]

How far behind in studying NFL defenses? At least 4-7 years compared to a college QB that runs a traditional offense.

How far behind the guys being called the smartest QBs on the field? Sometimes 12 years behind.

Florida State quarterback Jameis Winston a legend in the making before his first Seminoles snap

Antonor Winston dug up the notebook a while back because he knew people wouldn't believe. Even in Hueytown, the small Birmingham, Ala., suburb where he and his wife, Loretta, live, there are plenty of non-believers.

The notebook is tattered and faded, but the words are still clear. The pages are filled with carefully printed instructions written by -- as the inscription at the top of the first page reads -- Jameis Winston, Hueytown Middle School.

Page 1 begins with a list of the characteristics a good quarterback should possess: leadership, dedication, desire, mental toughness, character, confidence. It concludes with a detailed schematic breakdown of how to properly attack a Cover 2 defense.

Jameis Winston was 12 years old when he wrote it.

McD...I'm not even sure this makes sense

- 4-7 seven years behind? can you translate that into criteria that is meaningful and measurable? by example: how do I know someone is only 2 years behind or 2 years ahead?

- 12 years? again, what measurable criteria? how does one get 12 years behind when measuring "smartness"? this is all just pulled from certain quarters of the anatomy. and is demonstrably fraudulent: whatever else, 2012 did happen. the offense was executed. the passes were completed. the QB took his team to the playoffs. someone lacking "smartness" (unlike Jameison, of course) and 4-7 years behind the skills power curve doesn't have a 2012. he isn't voted offensive RoY.

- traditional offense? what's that? do you simply mean under center? cuz the QB can be under center for both West Coast and Air Coryell style offenses.

btw....do you know where the young Jameis drew his information from? cuz I'm thinking someone who can't even navigate through basic social problems isn't going to develop sui generis a plan for attacking Cover 2. he may, on the other hand, be good at retaining information passed from others or copying and reinterpreting source material. if he figured it out on his own...why that's awesome! too bad it all ended when he was 12 and...nearly 20 years later...he hasn't moved on to revolutionize offensive football with other, new concepts.

btw..if memory serves...Winston had all kinds of pick issues...and his performance declined going into his senior season. but these are old themes as well.

 

[Chris]

Brother McD, didn't the phenom called Winston, who knows where everyone is gonna be, pre-snap, who knows where to go with the ball, throw more int's in his senior year, when he should be even smarter, if that's even humanly possible, than he did the year before? Reading college defenses, no less?

To be fair, Winston was working with two true freshman starting wideouts this past year who, as true freshman will, did not always make the right adjustments. Often the qb threw to where they were supposed to be pre-break based on the coverage. Other times he over-targeted Rashad Greene because of a higher trust factor. So the increase in int's were not as entirely his fault as some would like to think. Losing Kelvin Benjamin probably also had an affect. Cam Newton can tell you about his worth to a qb.

 

[Chris]

McD...I'm not even sure this makes sense

- 4-7 seven years behind? can you translate that into criteria that is meaningful and measurable? by example: how do I know someone is only 2 years behind or 2 years ahead?

That's an easy one. The same way he knew that Ladell Betts was a better fit for our offense than Clinton Portis?

 

[Ax]

To be fair, Winston was working with two true freshman starting wideouts this past year who, as true freshman will, did not always make the right adjustments. Often the qb threw to where they were supposed to be pre-break based on the coverage. Other times he over-targeted Rashad Greene because of a higher trust factor. So the increase in int's were not as entirely his fault as some would like to think. Losing Kelvin Benjamin probably also had an affect. Cam Newton can tell you about his worth to a qb.

Well, Mister smartest QB ever born should have known which way the receivers was gonna turn, even if it was wrong, and delivered a mechanically flawless spiral, at the exact speed and rotation, preferred by that particular receiver, on the particular play, in that particular game.

I mean, come on, that's Jameis ****ing Winston. Peyton Manning's personal hero.

 

[micks113]

Proposal:

- we all know there are two primary trip-wires on this board...RGIII and Jay Gruden.

- how about we table the venom for a while....enjoy the preseason and give it several games into the season before jumping back into it. If it's messed up after several games and the same ole problems manifest themselves I know I will be done with RGIII and/or Gruden. until then....let's experience real "hope and change" until reality does/does not slam the door.

Nice try fan. Both have been the hot talking points and its not going away....at all. If you can sit back and enjoy pre-season and first 4 games while reserving any opinion and judgement, then more power to you. Here's where I'm at with these guys.

I expect Griffin to get a ton of reps in pre-season games. If he only gets two series and that's it, well that just doesn't cut it. He needs lot of game reps and practice practice and more practice. I don't care about the risk of injury. He'll get hurt in a hurry if he is not up to game speed with play execution and improvisation. He needs the practice. We will be in serious trouble to start the season (once again) if Robert is not ready for prime time. History has shown we have not been prepared or otherwise ready when the season starts. That has got to change first.

Secondly, I don't buy in to the premise that this is a "make or break" year for Robert. Not at all, if he shows progress and we win 8 or 7 or even 6, then he returns as our guy. I see Gruden committing to that as I see McClou committing to Gruden.
On the other hand, if he/we start out slow again, and start most of the games behind which takes away the planned power running game, then early losses may find Robert fighting for this job. If that becomes the case, then I doubt the commitment to him stays past the bye.

No specifics here, just a generalization from where last year left me. I don't have that "hope and a prayer" attitude going in to this year. I expect results and I expect them to show me the work ethic to get the results. We are going to lose some and win some, but two things I want to see changed is Robert showing progress early, and Gruden showing he can get this team prepared to play early. Then we'll go from there.

 

[McD5]

I love everyone here. But sometimes, it really is bizarro world. Maybe that's part of the appeal.

Poster 1: How do you know he's good in a film room. Are you a comedian?

Poster 2: Immediately posts 2 videos of that player in the film room. One NFL coach says "I've never seen anything like it before" and the other says "He's a star."

Poster 3: That means nothing!

LOL

 

[TomE]

Winston is not on our team, hows 'bout we take him to the NFL forum for further discussion.

 

[McD5]

That's an easy one. The same way he knew that Ladell Betts was a better fit for our offense than Clinton Portis?

For 1/5th of the salary? He was. I think we can now all see the benefit of having traded 2 years Portis before he retired. Maybe we could have gotten another lineman on the squad with his insane salary?

 

[McD5]

McD...I'm not even sure this makes sense

- 4-7 seven years behind? can you translate that into criteria that is meaningful and measurable? by example: how do I know someone is only 2 years behind or 2 years ahead?

A college QB, 3 or 4 years in a professional system like Winston or Andrew Luck. Maybe HS too. Some, even earlier.

RG3 started trying to learn being a traditional QB and reading NFL defenses in his third year.

3 or 4 plus 3. He's 6 or 7 years behind. In general terms. More in some cases.

 

[MikeSr619]

For 1/5th of the salary? He was. I think we can now all see the benefit of having traded 2 years Portis before he retired. Maybe we could have gotten another lineman on the squad with his insane salary?

No, obviously we can't. Which is why it still sounds as ridiculous as the day you first tired to float that turd and call it a boat.

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[Primus Porcus]

For 1/5th of the salary? He was. I think we can now all see the benefit of having traded 2 years Portis before he retired. Maybe we could have gotten another lineman on the squad with his insane salary?

Portis killed himself for this franchise. We owed it to him to keep him here as long as we could. If we start changing players to our scheme, then writing them off, why would any free agent want to come here. Sometimes you need to swallow that player when he's past his prime, if he's sacrificed enough to warrant it. This team already had a hard enough time getting viable talent here... to take a player who did everything that was asked of him, in a very LOW point of the franchise, and dump them for a minimal return very well could put a bad taste in a lot of other players mouths. Yes, it's a business, but we can't forget that people are what drives that business.

 

[McD5]

Portis killed himself for this franchise. We owed it to him to keep him here as long as we could. If we start changing players to our scheme, then writing them off, why would any free agent want to come here. Sometimes you need to swallow that player when he's past his prime, if he's sacrificed enough to warrant it. This team already had a hard enough time getting viable talent here... to take a player who did everything that was asked of him, in a very LOW point of the franchise, and dump them for a minimal return very well could put a bad taste in a lot of other players mouths. Yes, it's a business, but we can't forget that people are what drives that business.

There's some truth to what you typed. But when it was obvious that he was done, we should have traded him. The Patriots do it all the time.

Should we extend Santana Moss for another four years right now? No? Why not?

 

[Primus Porcus]

There's some truth to what you typed. But when it was obvious that he was done, we should have traded him. The Patriots do it all the time.

Should we extend Santana Moss for another four years right now? No? Why not?

Nobody is saying that. Moss has finished out his contract, Portis was still under contract as a Redskin. He was in fact released before the contract expired, but opting to not dump him 1 year after we re-signed him in 09 in favor of Ladell Betts does not scream value pick to me. The Patriots are also in a position to contend almost every year. Why would we take one of the few star players (even at 75%) and try to trade him (not that anyone wanted him anyway) in favor of a guy who averaged less then 4 ypc after 2006?

 

[McD5]

Why would we take one of the few star players (even at 75%) and try to trade him (not that anyone wanted him anyway) in favor of a guy who averaged less then 4 ypc after 2006?

For about five reasons that were very clear at the time. Here are 3:

1. He couldn't catch. He was a RB from the 1980s style, when the league had clearly moved on to being a passing league.

2. We weren't going to win anything at all with him. That was very clear. He also disappeared during the playoffs.

3. RBBC would have been fine. His contract was insane. Whatever RB we kept, plus whatever player we could have received for Portis>>than Portis alone.

Maybe that's one of the many reasons why the Patriots do contend every year?

 

[MikeSr619]

1. He blocked better than any back during his time or since.

2. We weren't winning shit with anyone there anyways. He didn't disappear during the playoffs. He made it twice here and had almost 100 yards with a td in 05.

3. That is the worst argument ever made by you for getting rid of portis. Betts couldn't even stay healthy and we had nobody else behind him.

4. He had 4 years of over 1200 yards with us but I don't see that stat coming through.

5. He set a tone on the field that he would knock players out with his toughness.

6. He changed his style and build completely for this team.


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[Goaldeje]

The Pats contend every year because of Tom Brady. Let's not pretend it has anything to do with RB or RBBC.

 

[Chris]

Trade him? Really? lol

 

[Miles Monroe]

I used to enjoy summer

You used to pee in your diapers too, I bet.

I still do.... on both accounts

 

[Fear The Spear]

Trade him? Really? lol

Like, that would be akin to trading Monte Coleman in 1990

 

[McD5]

To be fair, Winston was working with two true freshman starting wideouts this past year who, as true freshman will, did not always make the right adjustments. Often the qb threw to where they were supposed to be pre-break based on the coverage. Other times he over-targeted Rashad Greene because of a higher trust factor. So the increase in int's were not as entirely his fault as some would like to think. Losing Kelvin Benjamin probably also had an affect. Cam Newton can tell you about his worth to a qb.

This guy knows football.