Random Commanders Thoughts

[Kel Varnsen]

Ax, great job on posting the rules. Did you find any on fumbling? I still feel like they pieced together a couple different rules to makes this call. I'm curious what the rule book says.

The other thing that bothers me, is that RBs often leap over the pile and as they jump, they hit someone and the ball moves around in their hands and they regain control in the air, the ball crosses the plane, and it's a TD. It doesn't matter if they get pushed back, or it gets knocked out again after they cross. They are ruled to have crossed the goal line with the ball. So why is the same thing not true here?

 

[Cycleans]

I was under the impression that one needed conclusive evidence to change a call on the field. I recall seeing qb's and rbs having the ball knocked from their hands as the ball crossed the plane...but never saw it treated like a reception.

 

[Ax]

Ax, great job on posting the rules.

Sorry my friend. I can't take credit for that. SNF did the great job.

The rule blows chunks. If it's as Pierra said it was. Be a bitch to get the "Sorry, we blew that one" letter from the league office.

 

[Ax]

I was under the impression that one needed conclusive evidence to change a call on the field. I recall seeing qb's and rbs having the ball knocked from their hands as the ball crossed the plane...but never saw it treated like a reception.

If the rule is as Pierra described it, then it was the correct call. IMHO

 

[fansince62]

I was under the impression that one needed conclusive evidence to change a call on the field. I recall seeing qb's and rbs having the ball knocked from their hands as the ball crossed the plane...but never saw it treated like a reception.

the argument being made is that RGIII lost control BEFORE crossing the goal line. in this situation, the play s treated similar to a pass receiver and not a RB - control must be re-established. the idea is that he was bobbling the ball as he hit the turf and then went OB.

the effort is what mattered to me. You'll notice the Gruden mentioned "at least a field goal" 2-3 times in his presser.....IMO a jab at Robert for eating up the clock by running the ball. eh.....I like the idea that Griffin demonstrated an option the other QBs don't offer.

interesting sidebar: I was listening to a WAPO reporter insights on the game on the way to work this morning. these guys are too one-sided. summary: RG was good in the first half cuz Gruden designed plays that played to his strengths (i.e., minimized his short-comings) but soon as Gruden got away from this and to pocket based plays Griffin's weaknesses dominated. I'm listening thinking "arse wipe...that's an analysis with no consideration for what was going on with the o-line in the second half". more and more...it seems there is a campaign to undercut and destroy Griffin rather than build him into a better QB. or, better put, everything is going to be ripped in an effort to circle Snyder from all angles. I have my own issues vis Snyder...but when the reporting (e.g,, Peter king) becomes so obviously agenda driven...one can only hope that all these folks eventually lose their jobs in the shuffle. it's choking sports everywhere...a bit of a tangent: on Golf Channel yesterday...out of the blue.....NBC places an ad pushing viewers to watch the Rachel Maddow show. these folks/ideological interest groups are more and more blatant in their agendas. they're under-cutting EVERY institution. hope they realize that it doesn't end with their preferred targets.

 

[fansince62]

Whatever...

lmao!

hope the koolaid tastes good this morning!

 

[MattFancy]

Look, I'm all for continuity for this franchise because we all know we need it in the worst way.

But what explanation can you come up with for why we should keep Gruden other than it's just his 1st season? He was brought in as an offensive mind and a "QB guru". Has the offense gotten any better from last season? Have our QBs gotten better from last season?

I didn't expect Gruden to come in this year and lead us to the playoffs. I thought we could flirt with .500 for most of the season and ultimately finish like 7-9. I didn't think that was asking too much of a rookie HC. But, after 14 games, we're exactly in the same place we were at this point last season. The 2 other rookie HCs (Pettine and O'Brien) both have their teams at 7-7. Did anyone going into this season think that Browns/Texans were 4 games better than we were?

Gruden has all done a piss poor job of handing the media. What other coaches destroy their QBs in the press? What other coach throws players under the bus every week in the media? Gruden just appears to be in over his head and I don't think another season is going to fix it. Has there been any rookie HC that starts out 3-13 (that's probably how we end up) and gone onto having a successful career? I'm asking because I honestly don't know.

 

[McD5]

Jimmy Johnson is the one that comes to mind.

College coach, over his head, etc. He was 1-15 his first season.

Mike Ditka is another, but further back.

Bill Walsh is another. 2-14 his first season, 6-10 his second.

So probably not a huge factor.

 

[DixieFlatline]

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/14_Rule11_Scoring.pdf
Section 2 Touchdown
TOUCHDOWN PLAYS

Article 1 Touchdown Plays. A touchdown is scored when:
(a) the ball is on, above, or behind the plane of the opponents’ goal line and is in possession of a runner
who has advanced from the field of play; or


(1) The ball is automatically dead when it is in legal possession of a player and is on, above, or behind
the opponent’s goal line.

(2) the player is attempting to catch a pass, the ball is not dead, and a touchdown is not scored, until the
receiver completes the catch. See Rule 3, Section 2, Article 7.

Based on what the refs said, I think the nuance here is possession versus control. Robert lost possession while in the air. He gained control of the ball while still in the air. He did not complete a re-possession of the ball because he lost it while finishing the play. At least that is the way I am interpreting it.

And I'm still trying to figure out the 30 yards on penalties to start the 2nd half.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

Sorry my friend. I can't take credit for that. SNF did the great job.

The rule blows chunks. If it's as Pierra said it was. Be a bitch to get the "Sorry, we blew that one" letter from the league office.

Oops! My bad. I'm still a little groggy this morning.

All credit to SNF for the research.

 

[MattFancy]

I think Jimmy Johnson was worse.

Gruden ain't no Jimmy Johnson...and, yeah, Gruden doesn't have half the talent on the field, but he still ain't no Jimmy Johnson. **** me for mentioning that guy.

I always think of Shotty when we come to a bend in the road like this. He had poor talent to work with, but by the end of his year, we looked like a decent team. Makes me want a defensive minded coach.

Hell, Bill O'Brien has managed to get 7 wins out of a QB mess of Ryan Fitzpatrick/Ryan Mallet. Yet we can't get more than 3 wins out of Griffin/Cousins/McCoy.

It just shows that QB is not the problem with this team. Other teams win plenty of games with subpar QB play. We don't have enough talent to do that. We need 400yd 4 TD games to even have a chance (see the Eagles game). Such a disaster here.

 

[ntotoro]

And I'm still trying to figure out the 30 yards on penalties to start the 2nd half.

I've never heard of such a thing. I've never, ever, ever heard of a player being penalized (for whatever reason) at the end of a half and having it carry over to the third quarter. Ever.

Nick

 

[Ax]

I've never heard of such a thing. I've never, ever, ever heard of a player being penalized (for whatever reason) at the end of a half and having it carry over to the third quarter. Ever.

Nick

I have.

What I don't recall is having 2 personal foul penalties enforced at the same time.

Regardless, sorry ass special teams should be able to cover the onsides kick.

 

[servumtuum]

How'd he do in run defense?

According to the box score from the NFL Game Center Rambo was credited with 1 solo tackle and 1 assisted tackle as well as the 2 INTs so he apparently wasn't a major factor in run D.

Link: Watch Green Bay Packers vs. Buffalo Bills [12/14/2014] - NFL.com

 

[Factory of Sadness]

Gruden is not only proving to be a horrible coach, but an unbearable asshole.
On RG3: "He played ok." Will he start next week? "Well, he's in the mix. He's on the roster."

Who says stuff like that?! He's on the roster?!

I can't get too mad at him - he isn't the one who hired himself, who put this horrible team together. But as far as awful Redskins coaches go, it's him and Zorn and everyone else far behind. This is as bad as the Zorn years. Other teams must be laughing after these games. For these teams it has to be like getting off the bus and playing a pickup team of semi-pros. It's gotta feel that easy.

Gruden will - unbelieveably - be fired. Maybe there's some loophole in that contract? And then it all starts up again. We all know this ain't getting any better anytime soon.

 

[fansince62]

Look, I'm all for continuity for this franchise because we all know we need it in the worst way.

But what explanation can you come up with for why we should keep Gruden other than it's just his 1st season? He was brought in as an offensive mind and a "QB guru". Has the offense gotten any better from last season? Have our QBs gotten better from last season?

I didn't expect Gruden to come in this year and lead us to the playoffs. I thought we could flirt with .500 for most of the season and ultimately finish like 7-9. I didn't think that was asking too much of a rookie HC. But, after 14 games, we're exactly in the same place we were at this point last season. The 2 other rookie HCs (Pettine and O'Brien) both have their teams at 7-7. Did anyone going into this season think that Browns/Texans were 4 games better than we were?

Gruden has all done a piss poor job of handing the media. What other coaches destroy their QBs in the press? What other coach throws players under the bus every week in the media? Gruden just appears to be in over his head and I don't think another season is going to fix it. Has there been any rookie HC that starts out 3-13 (that's probably how we end up) and gone onto having a successful career? I'm asking because I honestly don't know.

I'm sitting on the fence on this one. I see the reason for not flipping yet another coach.

The casual, competing thoughts:

- where's the evidence of leadership?

- where's the evidence of a plan?

I have yet to hear what every fan normally expects: "This has been tough to sit through. But it's been a good learning experience. We have a better idea now of where we sit and what we need to do. There's a larger strategy in place that we are going to nail down and put into play soon as the season ends after a couple weeks spool down time. yea...there are significant problems. but we see a light at the end of the stadium tunnel. this isn't a terminal problem."

There's no real forward looking with this guy. This season is tubde...so IMO he should be already shining some light on the way-ahead...not the same ole song and dance "Don't know...gotta look at the tape. We gotta coach em up better."

Is Gruden a quitter?

 

[Elephant]

I think this all boils down to a head strong coach and an owner who wants things done his way. To me, it just seems like Gruden has mailed it in. But those of you thinking we would approach .500 were ignoring the shitty team Shanahan left us with. We were terrible last year, we had no upgrades along our offensive line...or defensive for that matter. Hatcher? Was he really an upgrade? How many games has hem missed? Next year he will be an older draw on our salary cap.

If they are going to fire Gruden, just do it now and get it over with. Let Haslett take over for the rest of the year. Then...in the off-season blow this mother****er up!

If you're not going to fire Gruden, the let him build his own coaching staff in the off-season. Get someone in here who has an eye for talent. The best man for the job is not in the NFL right now...he retired after building a Super Bowl Champion in a very short period of time. THROW BILLIONS AT HIM! There is no salary cap for a GM/Player Personnel guy!

 

[Henry]

Jimmy Johnson is the one that comes to mind.

College coach, over his head, etc. He was 1-15 his first season.

Mike Ditka is another, but further back.

Bill Walsh is another. 2-14 his first season, 6-10 his second.

So probably not a huge factor.

Can we come up with someone who coached during the modern era of free agency? Someone from the past 20 years?

A couple names like Verrmeil and Belichek come to mind, but those guys were both in the second stint as coach and both went 5-11 before turning their teams around ...

3-13? I can't come up with anyone. Maybe there is someone but I can't think of who it might be.

I don't know that we should replace Gruden after one season, but I do think he's doing a terrible job so far.

 

[ntotoro]

Like I said, Gruden just has a hardon for RGIII and has from day 1. His shortcomings can be fixed. Gruden will always been an asshat.

Nick

 

[Ax]

Funny to see so many bitch about Snyder's past, and then recommend he do it again.