Random Commanders Thoughts

MikeSr619 said:
man, so much to debate there...

Robinson ends Tanaman's tenure? The one trick pony?
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When (or if) you're a 4th, 5th, or 6th string WR, you're allowed to be a one trick pony. There's not as much on his shoulders. When you're at the bottom rung of receivers, you're more of a specialist. Much like the backup DB's come in on nickel packages, the one trick pony WR comes in when we throw the long ball (or as a decoy, of course)
 
so, you think he Robinson has more "tricks" than Tana does? Or that he is more of a "specialist" than Moss is?

Jackson is the deep threat, Garcon the tough yards, Moss the slot. Robinson doesn't have anything on Moss as far as I have been able to tell.
 
The only thing I've seen from Robinson that hints at an NFL WR is flat out speed. Man can fly. Guys like that tend to stick on rosters ... speed is a trait that trumps almost any another at that position. Not hard for me to understand why the team would be hesitant to let him walk as long as there is even a decent chance he could develop into a reliable option.
 
considering we have seastrunk and jackson I dont see how a WR who isnt really getting open in the deep game makes a difference over a vet who brings leadership, can run the tough routes, and return punts.
 
When you put Robinson and Jackson out on the edge and let them run a fly, then Garcon and Reed have the middle for themselves. A no backfield with Grant in the game only opens it up even more. Ditto for Helu in that situation.

I can understand why there seems to be a few who think this could happen.
 
Mike, the knock on Seastrunk for now centers on his inabilities at pass catching and pass blocking. We'll see how he responds in TC.
 
MikeSr619 said:
so, you think he Robinson has more "tricks" than Tana does? Or that he is more of a "specialist" than Moss is?

Jackson is the deep threat, Garcon the tough yards, Moss the slot. Robinson doesn't have anything on Moss as far as I have been able to tell.
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Except Moss has, at best possibly a season or two more of play. Robinson has done nothing to show he rates to carry Moss' luggage at this point - but he is talented physically and still young. One can't dismiss that. Moss is done soon - period. We still don't know whether Robinson can be a big time WR...
 
365 yards and 2 touchdowns relates to THAT?!! hahahahaaha....well, ok

Moss had 452 and 2 touchdowns.

Hell, Robinson only had 18 receptions on 46 targets to Moss' 42 receptions on 80 targets. One trick pony that isn't even showing those tricks but maybe once a game!! And even there he can't catch but a little more than 1/3 of the balls thrown to him.


Then Moss had those 130yds in punt returns.
 
I think Gruden has said several times that he doesn't believe Seastrunk is a poor pass catcher - he just wasn't asked to serve that role at Baylor. That is the 'knock' or 'conventional wisdom' but I think it's based on a lack of understanding of the kind of back he was asked to be in college vs. his actual skills. I don't know how many balls he had thrown his way at Baylor, but he only caught 9 balls in 2012 and none in 2013. I just don't think that was something they asked him to do. He got some surprisingly positive reviews catching the ball at the combine though as I read several reports that noted he appeared to have pretty good hands. We may have gotten a major steal. We'll see soon enough. I don't know how much blocking we want out of a 5'9" 200 lbs soaking wet back to be honest, but he does hrave the ability to run over DBs as he showed at Baylor.

Thing that impresses me most - he set Baylor records as the first back with consecutive 1000 yard+ seasons (and he didn't play a down for the 3 years prior to 2012 I believe due to problems at Oregon). Only concern for me is injury history and he has had some problems staying between the lines off the field.
 
MikeSr619 said:
365 yards and 2 touchdowns relates to THAT?!! hahahahaaha....well, ok

Moss had 452 and 2 touchdowns.

Hell, Robinson only had 18 receptions on 46 targets to Moss' 42 receptions on 80 targets. One trick pony that isn't even showing those tricks but maybe once a game!! And even there he can't catch but a little more than 1/3 of the balls thrown to him.


Then Moss had those 130yds in punt returns.
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You don't like what I'm saying so you're trying to change the conversation :) I acknowledged they aren't comparable currently and Robinson may never turn out even to be a bonafide NFL starter, much less a great WR as Moss has been. Moss is just about done. It's just reality. If they decide Robinson can't be coached up and contribute, he'll be gone. But if he has major potential you have to keep him until you're convinced he isn't going to pan out and consider letting Moss, great as he was for us, retire. That may be this year, it may be next year, but it's coming. Whether Robinson is the guy who gets that spot or not remains to be seen.
 
No, I'm not. Im using stats as the main topic of my point. If they aren't comparable how does he take his spot on the team?

All of this "if" "potential" "pan out" and other things to try and mask that Robinson isn't as good as an "old vet" like Moss.
 
I would be happy to see Hankerson and Robinson gone if they can't earn a spot. I'm done with waiting on potential with both of them. If they make the roster I will hope for the best. Moss needs to be flawless in my estimation.Other wise he's gone.
 
MikeSr619 said:
No, I'm not. Im using stats as the main topic of my point. If they aren't comparable how does he take his spot on the team?

All of this "if" "potential" "pan out" and other things to try and mask that Robinson isn't as good as an "old vet" like Moss.
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For the most obvious reason in the world - because you don't make roster decisions based only on the upcoming season. Ever.
 
Right, you make it on what they have done the past season. Where Moss outperformed Robinson in every aspect except touchdowns...where he tied him.
 
MikeSr619 said:
Right, you make it on what they have done the past season. Where Moss outperformed Robinson in every aspect except touchdowns...where he tied him.
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No - that's not true at all. That's a single factor among many. Moss' production has declined steadily every year. He may still be better than Robinson, that remains to be seen - and irregardless of Robinson, Moss' production will continue to decline. It can't be argued that Robinson or another young receiver yet to do squat may have a promising future. Moss does not. That has to matter Mike. And damn - you are stubborn on this one :) I love Moss as much as anyone. But the end is coming for him and nothing can change that.
 
I am really confused now

We are going off of stats from last year because that is how you decide who is better. Moss' were better

It's not that I am overly loyal to Moss but if we are going to cut him it has to be better than a guy who's best season is 18 catches and 386 yards! Moss (albeit on his way down) topped that. If you are going to put me out to pasture I want it to be for a young guy who is actually doing something.

Last year every time Robinson came in the game I thought "well, here goes the deep ball". Now if I think that we know the defense thinks that, too. But he wasn't burning anyone. He just wasn't.

The end is definitely coming for Moss...but the reaper is not Robinson. It will be Roberts or Hank before its Robinson.
 
Moss wont be in the slot this year. He's fighting for a fourth or fifth spot, which is why he could lose his job to a young guy that's really really fast.

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I already agreed it may not be Robinson. I have also agreed that Moss has, to date, been the better WR - every year. No one's arguing that. The point is, you aren't just looking at 'who is the better player RIGHT NOW' particularly when we are coming off a 3 win season with a new coach (ie...we're not a 'win now' team) and the 'better player' is on the extreme edge of his career. You look at who will still be contributing 3-5 years from now. Robinson may not be that guy, but he might be. We know Moss cannot be that guy.
 
Let's be honest... undersized fast guys that are a long shot to have a career much less be a starter can be found every offseason. There is nothing special with Robinson.

If one of the top 3 guys goes down I want Moss stepping on the field. At least I know there might be a shot with him.
 
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