Random Commanders Thoughts

Om said:
Oh my god.
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That's the heart of the matter though. You can dismiss it all you want, but THAT is why it is found offensive by X% of Native Americans. THAT is why one of the defenses is it refers to red war paint, not skin color. "It's racist" is the primary objection. Have you not been paying attention?

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No - the reason why 'one of the defenses is it refers to red war paint not skin color' is because it's a fact.
 
No - that's an assumption and a distortion - not a fact.
 
Even if one believes that 'redskin' refers only to skin color - so what? 'Whites', 'blacks' - words are used every second of every day to define huge numbers of people. No one cares or finds it offensive. And cherry picking obscure negative uses of the word over 200+ years of history doesn't make it an epithet - because it's never been commonly used as one, and certainly wasn't chosen as a moniker for a team because it was a slur.
 
Full Definition of RACIAL

1: of, relating to, or based on a race (a racial minority)
2: existing or occurring between races (racial equality)

Full Definition of RACISM

1: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2: racial prejudice or discrimination

Being racial does not imply racism. In order for something to be racist, it has to be used to show superiority/inferiority of one race over another, or to be used in a prejudiced or discriminatory fashion.

The argument is that Redskin is not used in that sense. Even currently, you don't see it used like that, with it being all over the news. It is racial, but that doesn't mean it's racist.

The assumption is made that it is racist, by people wanting a name change. In spite of a variety of evidence deliberately showing that isn't the case, they continue to push their agenda. The burden of proof is on the people calling for the change, and the proof given so far is "because it makes somebody feel bad". I'm sorry, but I fail to see that as evidence. I have had racist things used on me, for being what I am. I have seen racial hatred thrown at other natives. Redskin wasn't used for it. It isn't even common, and only makes national news in regards to...the football team.

Find evidence of it being used as a racial slur in a real sense. Find something showing how someone is using the word "Redskin" to oppress Natives, in a way even close to how the n-word is used. If you find it, then there may be something to discuss. So far, what has been found is that it isn't used like that.

All inference to say it is, without proof, is just complaining about effectively nothing. And just like all other complaints of that nature, any change regarding it will still be a zero gain.
 
I mostly agree, I'm just stating the case of the anti-name side (as I see it). I just don't 100% agree that everyone who is offended is not genuinely offended.

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Lanky Livingston said:
Right, but the guy cited is a Native American college graduate; not some random dude. And you could pull many things out of a hat, but most of them would not have a legitimate racial complaint. Whether or not you think it's racist, there is a racial component to it. There's documented proof that Native Americans referred to themselves as red skins and European settlers as white skins.

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So, he has tp be a college graduate to have any voice? Do you even comprehend the arrogance of that statement? So if you don't have a college degree...you're some random dude.

Quick poll, how many members of BGO don't have a college degree? I would like to take the time to speak out for you guys! I say we should have Lanky change his name to Some Random Dude because he has offended all you random dudes!
 
Elephant said:
So, he has top be a college graduate to have any voice? Do you even comprehend the arrogance of that statement? So if you don't have a college degree...you're some random dude.

Quick poll, how many members of BGO don't have a college degree? I would like to take the time to speak out for you guys! I say we should have Lanky change his name to Some Random Dude because he has offended all you random dudes!
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That's not what I said at all. Talk about irony...

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Lanky Livingston said:
That's not what I said at all. Talk about irony...

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I quoted you saying he was not some random dude, he had a college degree. If you cannot understand the arrogance of such a statement, there is no hope for you.
 
Elephant said:
I quoted you saying he was not some random dude, he had a college degree. If you cannot understand the arrogance of such a statement, there is no hope for you.
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You are being intentionally obtuse, trying to bait me into saying something wrong or twist my response into something it's not (again). I'm not going to participate. If you want to continue the discussion, feel free.

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man these discussions get old.

I'll just chime in with yet another "last thought"...:) : the folks driving this (in the big picture sense) seem to be the one's who cannot escape seeing society through the refracted social light of racial constructs. every act, every inaction, every symbol, every language construct, every gain, every loss all reduce to the inherently partitioned reality of racial identity. it seems to be a uniquely American pathology.
 
I am not claiming to speak for all indians, in fact I think that in this argument you really a few different kinds of indians.

1- indians who played sports and actually watch football=overwhelmingly pro redskins and HATE the cleveland mascot.
2- indians who never played sports and dont even watch football= mostly dont give a shit because IT DOESNT AFFECT THEM UNLESS SOME RACIST ASSHAT DOES SOMETHING STUPID.
3-Indians who have been told to find offence, listened to the whole " it refers to indians being flayed" or " its because indians are red" meme.

then you have our wonderful liberal friends who make sure to tell us every day how angry we should be, how offended and who will not let this die down, these people cant be bothered to volunteer on a reserve, or donate to a food bank, they need to feel like an activist though so in the age of facebook, these slacktivists will hit like and share.

I honestly am tired of talking about it
 
I LOL'd at "slacktivists" Ry. Haven't heard that before, but am definitely stealing it.
 
slacktivists...good one. The textbook version would be all the Twitter users thinking the "Bring our Girls home" movement will do jack squat. Doesn't matter what way you lean, just yapping about a problem doesn't solve it, ya gotta DO something.
 
How many out here are old enough to remember Sambo's Restaurants? A combination of both owners names; Sam & Bo - suddenly became racist after being in business 25+ years.

Well, a racist intent certainly wasn't there, the majority of the population didn't find it offensive and people were not connecting the name as a slur against blacks. However it was thought to be perpetuating a negative stigma by a minority. But they did have to change their name shortly before their 1200 outlet chain went bankrupt.

I'm still not for a Redskins name change now nor was I in favor of the restaurants name change then. I'd never use either term as a slur against anybody. One's a football team, the other was a pretty decent place to get a cheap breakfast. Period.

note: please this is only for illustration - let's not get too carried away with the Sambo's theme.
 
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