PFT: Washington may be in the Mariota business

[TomE]

Serv, that Mark Bullock is a great follow on twitter.

Reading his stuff, it seems the biggest problem with Gruden's play calling was expecting DJax and/or Helu to make their blocks.

 

[McD5]

Reading his stuff, it seems the biggest problem with Gruden's play calling was expecting DJax and/or Helu to make their blocks.

Yes. I believe this team is a lot closer to rolling than many believe. You won't find many analysts critical of the play-calling.

We just need a few players to execute better.

 

[fansince62]

Reading his stuff, it seems the biggest problem with Gruden's play calling was expecting DJax and/or Helu to make their blocks.

You're right! calling screen plays and draws on 3rd and long - guaranteed success! are you kidding me? Gruden made all sorts of poor calls - as well as giving up in games....not to mention sounding like like a whiney 10 year old as the season wore on. aside from previously alluded to character issues...IMO it's high time to consider just how mature this "players coach" truly is.

addendum: not attacking you Tom....just think Gruden is dodging some of the accountability for last season in the playbook being offered up by some. I also think conflicts are going to emerge over the long haul between Gruden and McL.

 

[Ax]

The players don't seem to have a lot of confidence in him either. They might agree with his assessment of Griffin, but I doubt a single one agreed with the public flogging. He lost a ton of respect over that. He has this season to turn the perception around of a deer in the headlights.

 

[McD5]

Ehh.....I agree that the way he went off on Griffin was unprofessional. I can certainly understand why he did it, but it was too strong.

But you won't hear many analysts criticize his play-calling. Receivers are open all over the field. It's not like Zorn, for example, who didn't even have a playbook.

You'll hear some fans complain about his play-calling but I don't think many of them actually watch the tape.

 

[Boone]

The players don't seem to have a lot of confidence in him either. They might agree with his assessment of Griffin, but I doubt a single one agreed with the public flogging. He lost a ton of respect over that. He has this season to turn the perception around of a deer in the headlights.

This is exactly right. There is just zero benefit to managing that situation publicly the way Gruden did. I have no problem with a coach being as blunt as necessary in house. But all Gruden did was create a giant shitstorm and lose player respect by throwing Griffin under the bus openly.

 

[Ax]

Ehh.....I agree that the way he went off on Griffin was unprofessional. I can certainly understand why he did it, but it was too strong.

But you won't hear many analysts criticize his play-calling. Receivers are open all over the field. It's not like Zorn, for example, who didn't even have a playbook.

You'll hear some fans complain about his play-calling but I don't think many of them actually watch the tape.

That seems a little condescending. We all see what we want to. Including yourself. He certainly calls plays that, if executed right, will produce positive results. His in-game timing calling plays is completely inconsistent. He himself admitted to abandoning the run in most games. And after learning that Helu and Djax couldn't block if their life depended on it, repeatedly asking them to do it is, well, insanity, Right?

Look, I'm not ready to slit the guy from crotch to eyeball with a dull deer antler just yet. But if he has another season of looking lost at times, he may well provide the antler when he gets run over by the vehicle that has him caught in the headlights.

 

[McD5]

That seems a little condescending. We all see what we want to. Including yourself. He certainly calls plays that, if executed right, will produce positive results. His in-game timing calling plays is completely inconsistent. He himself admitted to abandoning the run in most games. And after learning that Helu and Djax couldn't block if their life depended on it, repeatedly asking them to do it is, well, insanity, Right?

Look, I'm not ready to slit the guy from crotch to eyeball with a dull deer antler just yet. But if he has another season of looking lost at times, he may well provide the antler when he gets run over by the vehicle that has him caught in the headlights.

If McLovin believes he sucks, then I want Gruden fired immediately. I don't care who our coach is; I just want to win.

But I believe his success in Cincy suggests that's not the case.

And as far as "looking lost" at times, how would you expect him to look when we've seen plays with a clean pocket and 5 WRs wide open? What else can he do?

 

[McD5]

You're right! calling screen plays and draws on 3rd and long - guaranteed success! are you kidding me?

Lots of teams call draw plays on 3rd and long. You see it every weekend.

You're the HC. It's 3rd and long. You have a QB that has extreme difficulty reading defenses--even when WRs are wide open. What would you call?

 

[Ax]

If you want to hang your hat a handful of still photos, go ahead. The guy was a rookie head coach, and it showed. Big time. It was as obvious as your still photos. He never had an answer for anything. He made is two top QB's look worse, not better. and he was too easy to point the finger everywhere else. While giving lip service to any fault of his own.

Trust me, I'm rooting for him to succeed as much as you are. But he had terrible rookie season. And, guaranteed contract or not, a repeat performance will cost him his job. I don't want that to happen.

 

[McD5]

I hear people complaining, but I've yet to hear someone make a suggestion. In terms of play-calling, what is it that he isn't doing correctly?

Fans: Move the pocket more. Have him roll out on most plays.

Professionals: You can't have him roll out too often. That cuts the field and his options in half.

 

[TomE]

You're right! calling screen plays and draws on 3rd and long - guaranteed success! are you kidding me? Gruden made all sorts of poor calls - as well as giving up in games....not to mention sounding like like a whiney 10 year old as the season wore on. aside from previously alluded to character issues...IMO it's high time to consider just how mature this "players coach" truly is.

addendum: not attacking you Tom....just think Gruden is dodging some of the accountability for last season in the playbook being offered up by some. I also think conflicts are going to emerge over the long haul between Gruden and McL.

I'm sure that play calling can be critiqued along with all of the other stuff including player execution, nothing guarantees success but most of the photos shown appeared to have available options that worked.

I'm not too worried about Gruden's demeanor and don't have much in the way of angst as far as his public dressing down of the players other than 'old school' minions feel that it should be kept in house, I agree with the old school line but remember that with all of this social media available it's easy for distraught players to go quite public with their own commentary and past indicators show
that Griff in particular, used this tool to put out his own narrative. That Gruden should be 'above' some of these things, yep, point taken.


I think we'll all agree that last year did not go quite the way we all wanted, rookie coaches do learn, new players can buy in and the incumbent players that are Redskins appear to be getting re-signed

On the positive side, Gruden should have a better handle on his players capabilities, he's already acknowledged that he bit-off more than he could chew and made adjustments to his staff. As far as his accountability, yeah, he's protecting himself, maybe a little too much but it's still a bit early to totally fall on the sword without some explanation and we all know that it's kinda fun hearing some of this stuff..... inappropriate as it might seem

Not attacking you either my friend, just exchanging thoughts.

 

[Boone]

If McLovin believes he sucks, then I want Gruden fired immediately. I don't care who our coach is; I just want to win.

But I believe his success in Cincy suggests that's not the case.

And as far as "looking lost" at times, how would you expect him to look when we've seen plays with a clean pocket and 5 WRs wide open? What else can he do?

He's had success as an OC - not yet as a head coach. There's a massive difference. And when more plays are unsuccessful than not - that's coaching at least in part. Blaming the QB or other positions because they aren't creating on the field what you drew up in the meeting room - that's what losing coaches do. Gruden should get a break to an extent - it was his first year as a rookie HC and he has a lot to learn. But let's not minimize just how shaky he was

 

[McD5]

He's had zero success as a HC. Absolutely none. Maybe with the exception of some ST improvement. No doubt that it's a big leap for him.

However to be fair, he has had huge success as a HC of other professional football teams. Definitely in leagues lower than the NFL, but still has had big success with grown men, contracts, salaries and putting staffs together. And all of the emotions that go into any professional franchise.

It wasn't the NFL. But it was professionals playing for a living. And he won Championships doing so.

 

[Boone]

He's had zero success as a HC. Absolutely none. Maybe with the exception of some ST improvement. No doubt that it's a big leap for him.

However to be fair, he has had huge success as a HC of other professional football teams. Definitely in leagues lower than the NFL, but still has had big success with grown men, contracts, salaries and putting staffs together. And all of the emotions that go into any professional franchise.

It wasn't the NFL. But it was professionals playing for a living. And he won Championships doing so.

That's a fair point. I hope you are right - we all want him to succeed. We shall see what we shall see...

 

[Bulldog]

But then again Walsh was 2-14 in his first season in SF. Nothing worked, offense and defense were terrible.

Once he replaced Steve DeBerg with Joe Montana he looked a lot smarter didn't he? 😊

Perhaps to take the other side, Gruden realizes he may win 2-3 more games by catering to what Griffin does well but in the end it will not be enough to get the Redskins to contender status.


And that's supposed to be the goal right?

 

[McD5]

Gil Brandt ‏@Gil_Brandt · 3h3 hours ago
Marcus Mariota spend day w/ Jon Gruden recently. Gruden said Mariota reminds him a lot of Russell Wilson. Very positive review.

That's an interesting comparison.

 

[MikeSr619]

It also could be lip service to the media. If he said "dude just sucks balls" the media would be all over him. There is a chance he used that comparison because Wilson is a good young qb, both runner and passer, and a safe person to compare him to without over extending any unwarranted praise

 

[servumtuum]

It also could be lip service to the media. If he said "dude just sucks balls" the media would be all over him. There is a chance he used that comparison because Wilson is a good young qb, both runner and passer, and a safe person to compare him to without over extending any unwarranted praise

Probably gained some ups with McLuv with that too.

 

[fansince62]

I'm sure that play calling can be critiqued along with all of the other stuff including player execution, nothing guarantees success but most of the photos shown appeared to have available options that worked.

I'm not too worried about Gruden's demeanor and don't have much in the way of angst as far as his public dressing down of the players other than 'old school' minions feel that it should be kept in house, I agree with the old school line but remember that with all of this social media available it's easy for distraught players to go quite public with their own commentary and past indicators show
that Griff in particular, used this tool to put out his own narrative. That Gruden should be 'above' some of these things, yep, point taken.


I think we'll all agree that last year did not go quite the way we all wanted, rookie coaches do learn, new players can buy in and the incumbent players that are Redskins appear to be getting re-signed

On the positive side, Gruden should have a better handle on his players capabilities, he's already acknowledged that he bit-off more than he could chew and made adjustments to his staff. As far as his accountability, yeah, he's protecting himself, maybe a little too much but it's still a bit early to totally fall on the sword without some explanation and we all know that it's kinda fun hearing some of this stuff..... inappropriate as it might seem

Not attacking you either my friend, just exchanging thoughts.

I know you aren't attacking. we can all disagree, argue forcefully for our views - and realize it's just a game and not life!

Tom...you ignorant bastage! Just kidding!

1) Folks act like Lewis had nothing to do with what unfolded in Cincy.

2) I didn't find that offense so spectacular. per previous, it routinely fell on its face in the playoffs. why would that be? the talent? or coaches being out thought and out-strategized by opposing coaches?

not you...but the meme here has to be consistent: either we hired this guy who was wonderfully successful at professional football or not. we can't say he's a proven winner BUUUUUUUUT he's a rookie coach and so is granted special dispensation for all his bad decisions...he's just "learning".

let's call it what it was: because of recent history the Skins were never in contention for best of breed among coaching candidates. Allen used the brothahood of the ya ya bucs to rope in his Tampa bud. not unusual in the NFL - but let's be honest about what transpired.

I don't favor Gruden as a coach - I don't see the elements of a real leader in him and I think he will be out-smarted by the Chip Kelleys of the world on a regular basis. that's why I have elevated hopes that McL's skills at finding top tier talent can overcome Gruden's limitations.

sure, here's hoping OJT eventually enables our project HC to become the success he was always meant to be!