PFT: Washington may be in the Mariota business

McD5 said:
Boone, Gruden may turn out to be a total bust as an NFL HC. That's certainly possible. Especially in areas of controlling his own emotions. It's possible that he might make a better QB coach or offensive coordinator.

"Hired under fraudulent terms" was the shocking comment from Fan. Here are the terms by which he was hired:

1. Prior to his arrival, it was decided that RG3 needed to become a more traditional pocket-passer.

2. After an interview process, Gruden was thought to be the best choice for that role due to past success with QBs both in the NFL and before.

How are those "fraudulent terms?"

If WRs weren't open all over the field, I'd question his play calling. If McCoy and Cousins weren't able to step in immediately and move the ball, I'd wonder if his offense was too difficult to pick up. It's still early....but I'm not thinking that's the problem.
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the reason....McD5...is that we have been informed...incessantly since abt early to mid-season LAST SEASON...that gruden did not want RGIII as his QB. we hear incessantly that he privately prefers McCoy. WT heck over?! he was brought in...so we were told....to move Griffin forward. my deal is that I believe he knew before he ever accepted a contract that Griffin wasn't his kinda QB and never would be. I believe he never had such interest and decided very early on he was ready to test other waters. that he thinks "his" team is ready to move on is fine - that he waffled, never developed ANY of the QBs....and...as Boone points out...publicly mismanaged the entire situation is what draws into question my character charge. Boone is being charitable...providing an out as it were...in offering up that Gruden was over his head the first year and has time to recover. I, on the other hand, believe gruden deliberately decided very early that he was "stuck" and wasn't going to give it everything he had to make it better. controversial perhaps. but most of his actions suggested a petulance of the "I don't have what I want to work with it....so I'm just going to fake it."
 
Thanks Fan. Although contoversial, it explains your comment.

I believe you might be in a little bit of denial as to the ability/inability of a certain player's skillset. For visual evidence, see below.

Now what else can a HC/OC possibly do? Are 5 WRs wide open, plus a clean pocket not enough? Does he need 6 WRs wide open?

imrs.jpg
 
Good lord fan. If you're stuck on your premises you never draw a different conclusion. I don't happen to agree with your premise. I am willing to give some little bit of credit to Gruden, all his rookie mistakes notwithstanding. He was willing to pull the trigger on QB's that aren't performing, or at least not executing his game plan. That took some guts. We know a lot more about him as a head coach, good or bad, going into this season. Don't expect him to put up with what's not working. I don't call that faking it.
 
Just for clarity's sake, I had zero issue with Gruden pulling Griffin. I only have issue with undermining your own starter (or supposed starter) in public. Totally unnecessary, selfish, and counter-productive. I hope Gruden realizes it was a mistake.
 
Griffin has made a TON of mistakes since coming here in 2012. It would seem unfair to start firing guys right away after they make an error.

Gruden should have the opportunity to succeed with players he helps choose.

You don't see Kelly sticking with guys he inherited.

Elway went out and signed Manning in his first move.

The Seahawks cut Matt Flynn despite the investment when he looked lost and was outplayed by rookie Russell Wilson.

So Gruden came here and said he would work with Griffin?

That didn't mean that after working with him and determining he wasn't NFL caliber he had to be saddled with the guy for his entire 5 year term as coach.
 
Comparing Jay Gruden, coming from Cincinnati, to Chip Kelly, coming from Oregon, is like comparing a Ford Taurus to a Mercedes.
 
McD5 said:
Thanks Fan. Although contoversial, it explains your comment.

I believe you might be in a little bit of denial as to the ability/inability of a certain player's skillset. For visual evidence, see below.

Now what else can a HC/OC possibly do? Are 5 WRs wide open, plus a clean pocket not enough? Does he need 6 WRs wide open?

View attachment 2247
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nope. I hope we can realize full value from Griffin. but if McL decides Mariota or someone else is the guy...I'm good with that. I'm not in the Griffin "do or die" camp. there's enough floating around about Griffin to produce some concerns - though it all has to be viewed in the context of a dysfunctional team and endless coaching snafus. I happen to believe that gruden, well, was never onboard and didn't do everything possible to turn a questionable situation into a success story. that's what i look for in best of breed sorts.
 
Bulldog's Twin said:
Griffin has made a TON of mistakes since coming here in 2012. It would seem unfair to start firing guys right away after they make an error.

Gruden should have the opportunity to succeed with players he helps choose.

You don't see Kelly sticking with guys he inherited.

Elway went out and signed Manning in his first move.

The Seahawks cut Matt Flynn despite the investment when he looked lost and was outplayed by rookie Russell Wilson.

So Gruden came here and said he would work with Griffin?

That didn't mean that after working with him and determining he wasn't NFL caliber he had to be saddled with the guy for his entire 5 year term as coach.
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not the proper comparison. kelley has control over personnel....his job jar includes roster management. McL was brought in for that role. his job is not to answer the mail for gruden. his job is to build the best roster he can consonant with the formula and eye for talent he has previously proven successful at. should he and gruden share the same vision for the surest path to championships...great! but gruden is not his choice of coach and he is not here to build a team that jay gruden wants - not as I see it. he is here to reprise a previously successful strategy and sustain it. his hiring is as sure a signal as there can be that gruden is not a prime time coach. McL is in control of this roster and, by role, the ultimate arbiter on where and how this team structures its core strengths. ironically, gruden made McL's job somewhat more difficult by not being a better coach.

we hven't seen the best of McL yet! his core strength has been his drafting skills. it'll be interesting, to say the least, where he places emphasis with a full slate of picks. so far...without benefit of seeing anything on the field...I think we have the right guy. let us all hope that in 2-3 years we are arguing intemperately (at times) over who is more responsible for a resurgent redskin team moving deep into the playoffs...gruden or McL.
 
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Chris said:
I have never believed that leadership is learned quality, especially in a grown man. First rule of being a leader: discipline in house and never publicly embarrass your charges.
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While that is the general rule it doesn't always work. Some people that public airing of problems seem to work and while it's a small sample of games to decide Griffen did look better those last 3 games
 
fansince62 said:
not the proper comparison. kelley has control over personnel....his job jar includes roster management. McL was brought in for that role. his job is not to answer the mail for gruden. his job is to build the best roster he can consonant with the formula and eye for talent he has previously proven successful at. should he and gruden share the same vision for the surest path to championships...great! but gruden is not his choice of coach and he is not here to build a team that jay gruden wants - not as I see it. he is here to reprise a previously successful strategy and sustain it. his hiring is as sure a signal as there can be that gruden is not a prime time coach. McL is in control of this roster and, by role, the ultimate arbiter on where and how this team structures its core strengths. ironically, gruden made McL's job somewhat more difficult by not being a better coach.

we hven't seen the best of McL yet! his core strength has been his drafting skills. it'll be interesting, to say the least, where he places emphasis with a full slate of picks. so far...without benefit of seeing anything on the field...I think we have the right guy. let us all hope that in 2-3 years we are arguing intemperately (at times) over who is more responsible for a resurgent redskin team moving deep into the playoffs...gruden or McL.
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While mclovin has control over the roster he has said he has to bring in people that Gruden wants or else they both will fail
 
Yeah, I'd like to see those 3rd down call photos too, to actually see who was beyond the sticks and open.
 
During his introductory press conference, Scot said his job is to bring in the best players he can find that fit the requirements of the systems/schemes the head coach and coordinators are running.

So, to me that indicates his view of the GM role is to work in concert with the coaches, not go out and acquire players he thinks would be better NFLers IF the Redskins were running other offensive and defensive systems.

Gruden clearly wants to run a traditional offense with a drop back qb and a power rushing game with a good between the tackles rusher. Bigger wide receivers that can open up the middle game down the field and in the red zone.

That's what I expect to see Scot go out and get in the draft.

On defense, Barry and Gruden decided they were going to continue to run the 3-4 so the Redskins signed Knighton and Paea with their first couple of offseason moves to bolster the line.

If Scot doesn't think Griffin can be productive in the Redskins' offense long-term Griffin is going to be gone.

The days of the PLAYER determining who stays and goes and what role he is going to fill are OVER.
 
Bulldog's Twin said:
The days of the PLAYER determining who stays and goes and what role he is going to fill are OVER.
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We'll see how long that lasts. Start winning some games and there is no doubt in my mind that Snyder will covet a player and demand his acquisition. Not trying to jump on the "Snyder is da debil" band wagon, but I just don't see a lifetime micro manager staying on the sidelines for long.
 
I found three articles that provide what I think are three interesting analyses of questions either explicitly asked or at least hinted at-with photos of examples.

The first involves poor play calling on third down by Gruden with Cousins under center.

Link:Redskins 3rd Down Analysis - Hail22.com




The second is a breakdown of Griffin's poor play at QB.

Link:The Test: The areas Robert Griffin III most needs to fix heading into the 49ers game - The Washington Post


The third is a similar look at his seeming improvement in the last game against the Eagles which both might give reason to think Gruden's statement of him being the starting QB this year may have merit and/or accuracy but also raises questions about how that plays against Gruden's play calling and the liklihood of such improvement continuing.


Link:Robert Griffin III took encouraging steps forward against Eagles - The Washington Post


Granted, this is a bit divergent from the requests for pics of third down screwups but, IMO, feeds into the greater discussion of whether grabbing a QB in the draft-either Mariota or somebody else-might make sense or not. I'm not really drawing any conclusions here, just trying to provide what I think may be useful information.
 
Serv, that Mark Bullock is a great follow on twitter. I've been trying to get him to join here for a long time.
 
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