Official Game Thread - Week 4 - Commanders @ Falcons

[SkinsNumberOne]

You get the benefit of the doubt when you don’t take delusional actions that potentially hurt and distract the team, it’s as simple as that. There’s no way to know if this would’ve happened anyways. But you open yourself up to the questions when you become a “me” guy. It is what it is, I still want him to score a million TD’s for us.

I don't really look at it so much as a "me" guy as some of the things are just not as smart, big picture. I try not to fault him finally for trying to maximize his money potential but —

I was (and am) a huge Terry fan, as it pertains to things like catching the oblong ball, being a Commander, things like that. From all reports, he is respected in the locker room, and he still seems like he is a good dude. He is talked about as being one of the main guys for the Commanders' various good guy awards. I mean, that stuff matters to me.

However, as it pertains to a couple of other things, whoooo boy has my opinion changed!

1) His contract negotiation ability is pretty low. I won't say "0" but... yikes. It was not just poorly strategized, it was really poorly executed. This is really the main point because it feeds #2.
2) He really made poor choices on his own health, in spite of a pretty good understanding on the impacts of holding out. This isn't particularly new news; yes, it probably doesn't get enough press but I think this concept has been out there. Maybe I can't fully blame him in the sense that there still seems to be a lot of guys doing this - but man. It's just a lack of understanding on something that affects you, so much. He really needed to understand that staying out of preseason and camp is NOT merely a statement on wanting a contract; players have to come to grips with the idea that hitting the gym hard and doing even a lot of prep work (different for different positions) just isn't a substitute for the gradual entry camp and preseason gives your body into the physical tolls it needs to meet. Especially on teams that actually bother to employ good strength and conditioning regimens (the Commanders seem to). I am sure that it absolutely DOES matter. The rigors of the NFL are substantial, and for WRs, I am sure that these soft tissue injuries are pretty high risk. They need every defense available, including preparing their bodies fully.

Both of these items... how he handled them was pretty foolish. Still love the way he catches that oblong ball though.

 

[skinsinparadise]

Media is mixed on making the point about Terry's holdout -- Grant-Danny seem to think its fair to at least pose the question as does Standig. Finlay (who i like) and Tischler seem indignant that fans are foolish to attribute the injury to the lack of camp. While I am a fan of his podcast and radio show, i think Finlay's point about how this or that player got hurt and didn't hold out is silly as to making the case for Terry.

His other point which is about how Terry landed when he fell down, I think is stronger. But still...heck yeah its possible that it had nothing to do with the holdout. But its also possible that it did. And regardless of context, Terry with his contract negotiation made the point publicly that he doesn't miss games. So to me it doesn't even matter why he might miss games now -- it deflates his argument regardless of the why.

Yeah no one claims that doing camp makes you invulnerable to injury. It's football, people get hurt. So whether so and so player played every preseason game and missed zero practices and got hurt anyway -- doesn't correlate one whit with the odds of a player who didn't so the same being more prone to injury.

It's like saying you are more likely to be healthy if you eat salads versus burgers for lunch. And some dude who eats salads gets sick, and the guy who ate the burger didn't as that refutes the point. It doesn't refute anything. It's about the odds. It's about large numbers. The odds are greater for soft tissue injury when you hold out -- that's not in dispute. The point isn't if you do camp you have no injuries. It's not a binary debate -- camp no injuries -- no camp means injuries. You can get injuries even after a full camp. You can avoid injuries even if you skip camp. But the odds are different for both scenarios. It's not about 100% absolutes. Simple as that.

So Rappoport just now said he heard its more of a hip flexor injury in all likelihood

This is what AI says about that type of injury:
Yes, a lack of practice or a break from regular exercise can significantly increase vulnerability to a hip flexor injury. This happens because muscles weaken and tighten without a consistent training stimulus, making them less resilient to sudden or intense movements. The risk is especially high when returning to a sport or activity at a pre-break intensity without proper conditioning.

 

[skinsinparadise]

I don't really look at it so much as a "me" guy as some of the things are just not as smart, big picture. I try not to fault him finally for trying to maximize his money potential but —

I was (and am) a huge Terry fan, as it pertains to things like catching the oblong ball, being a Commander, things like that. From all reports, he is respected in the locker room, and he still seems like he is a good dude. He is talked about as being one of the main guys for the Commanders' various good guy awards. I mean, that stuff matters to me.

However, as it pertains to a couple of other things, whoooo boy has my opinion changed!

1) His contract negotiation ability is pretty low. I won't say "0" but... yikes. It was not just poorly strategized, it was really poorly executed. This is really the main point because it feeds #2.
2) He really made poor choices on his own health, in spite of a pretty good understanding on the impacts of holding out. This isn't particularly new news; yes, it probably doesn't get enough press but I think this concept has been out there. Maybe I can't fully blame him in the sense that there still seems to be a lot of guys doing this - but man. It's just a lack of understanding on something that affects you, so much. He really needed to understand that staying out of preseason and camp is NOT merely a statement on wanting a contract; players have to come to grips with the idea that hitting the gym hard and doing even a lot of prep work (different for different positions) just isn't a substitute for the gradual entry camp and preseason gives your body into the physical tolls it needs to meet. Especially on teams that actually bother to employ good strength and conditioning regimens (the Commanders seem to). I am sure that it absolutely DOES matter. The rigors of the NFL are substantial, and for WRs, I am sure that these soft tissue injuries are pretty high risk. They need every defense available, including preparing their bodies fully.

Both of these items... how he handled them was pretty foolish. Still love the way he catches that oblong ball though.

Digesting the Terry narrative. There is no doubt Terry is a good dude. I've met him his rookie season at an event. Super gracious with my kids, super nice guy. I've seen him in camp many times. And super cool with fans. There is a lot to love about him.

But this contract negotiation, he came off very self-centric over the team. Not every player who wants a new contract misses camp let alone all of it including minicamp. No every player decides to hold out and not honor their current contract. Not every player looks moody and aloof on the sidelines during preseason (look at Hendrickson for example, who was working on the sidelines with young players and was fired up in that preseason game). Not every player takes shots at the FO. Not every player asked for an absurd amount -- its pretty clear over time that they were asking for close to 40 million. Not every player asks for a trade.

But I think of all things about Terry, the idea that he puts a price tag on being a good guy is what puts me off the most. Be a good guy because you are a good guy -- if you want to get paid for it, then to me it comes off phony. And don't get me wrong, I don't think Terry is a phony. But for me it came off poorly when he started talking about himself in third person and imply that there should be a Terry tax for being a good guy and suffering through the Synder era.

And it was hard not to miss why he thought he deserved the big bag. A. He's as good as any WR in the league. B. He's going to be a different kind of 30 plus year old WR -- including his speed and avoiding injury. C. And he's a good dude who went though a lot.

So to me a lot of that is in question. I don't recall even once him saying wanting to win a championship and lets go do it -- and talk about the contract in that context compared to other WRs who in similar scenarios including the Tampa guys did talk about winning a SB. So the idea of him being vulnerable to injury without camp and that in turn might derail a SB window -- I don't think was on his mind because I don't think he came off that he cared a heck of a lot about that.

In real time, I am sure he wants to play and win. But big picture thinking about his career and the team globally he didn't come off like a dude who cared a heck of a lot about the SB window. He came off as someone who would go to another team even a bad one in a heartbeat if they paid him more.

 

[heisenberg]

Here's how i feel about whether or not Terry's holdout contributed to his injury.

It has no bearing on the present or future.

 

[skinsinparadise]

Here's how i feel about whether or not Terry's holdout contributed to his injury.

It has no bearing on the present or future.

To each their own. But I think it has relevance.

Present: we got so little depth behind Terry at outside WR that I think of all potential injuries aside from Jayden -- that's the one that could keep us out of the playoffs. So his holdout if that contributed to it. "Could" matter. Now if the injury is minor and his misses no time -- then agree it doesn't pertain to the present.

Future: If the furture means this season and making a run. It all depends on whether he misses a lot of time. But yeah i got my doubts that Luke McCaffrey and Chris Moore and Noah whenever he can play at outside WR take us to the promised land. That does't feel like a playoff team or a team that can the giant NFC teams in the playoffs. Lions, GB, Rams, Eagles, Tampa -- look at their rosters.

It's not like this is an out of leftfield conversation. It was the concern of the hold out -- does it make him more vulnerable to injury and to a slow start? So shocker, he has less catches than any year in his career so far and he gets hurt in game 3.

 

[heisenberg]

To each their own. But I think it has relevance.

Present: we got so little depth behind Terry at outside WR that I think of all potential injuries aside from Jayden -- that's the one that could keep us out of the playoffs. So his holdout if that contributed to it. "Could" matter. Now if the injury is minor and his misses no time -- then agree it doesn't pertain to the present.

Future: If the furture means this season and making a run. It all depends on whether he misses a lot of time. But yeah i got my doubts that Luke McCaffrey and Chris Moore and Noah whenever he can play at outside WR take us to the promised land. That does't feel like a playoff team or a team that can the giant NFC teams in the playoffs. Lions, GB, Rams, Eagles, Tampa -- look at their rosters.

It's not like this is an out of leftfield conversation. It was the concern of the hold out -- does it make him more vulnerable to injury and to a slow start? So shocker, he has less catches than any year in his career so far and he gets hurt in game 3.

You can debate it all you want, im just giving my personal feelings on the matter.

And yes his injury and even his new contract have great bearing on the present and future but the manner in which his injury occurred does not and that was the only point i raised with my post.

I personally dont care anymore what caused his injury i only care about getting him healthy and back on the field.

 

[skinsinparadise]

If its a hip flexor, this is the timeline. lol, i can't recall such a range of injury possibilities. Maybe they luck out and it turns to nothing, fingers crossed.



Interesting to hear the fantasy football types, Josh Norris is big on that front, say they in the future will knock down any dude that sits out in camp.

 

[Die Hard]

Media is mixed on making the point about Terry's holdout -- Grant-Danny seem to think its fair to at least pose the question as does Standig. Finlay (who i like) and Tischler seem indignant that fans are foolish to attribute the injury to the lack of camp. While I am a fan of his podcast and radio show, i think Finlay's point about how this or that player got hurt and didn't hold out is silly as to making the case for Terry.

His other point which is about how Terry landed when he fell down, I think is stronger. But still...heck yeah its possible that it had nothing to do with the holdout. But its also possible that it did. And regardless of context, Terry with his contract negotiation made the point publicly that he doesn't miss games. So to me it doesn't even matter why he might miss games now -- it deflates his argument regardless of the why.

Yeah no one claims that doing camp makes you invulnerable to injury. It's football, people get hurt. So whether so and so player played every preseason game and missed zero practices and got hurt anyway -- doesn't correlate one whit with the odds of a player who didn't so the same being more prone to injury.

It's like saying you are more likely to be healthy if you eat salads versus burgers for lunch. And some dude who eats salads gets sick, and the guy who ate the burger didn't as that refutes the point. It doesn't refute anything. It's about the odds. It's about large numbers. The odds are greater for soft tissue injury when you hold out -- that's not in dispute. The point isn't if you do camp you have no injuries. It's not a binary debate -- camp no injuries -- no camp means injuries. You can get injuries even after a full camp. You can avoid injuries even if you skip camp. But the odds are different for both scenarios. It's not about 100% absolutes. Simple as that.

So Rappoport just now said he heard its more of a hip flexor injury in all likelihood

This is what AI says about that type of injury:
Yes, a lack of practice or a break from regular exercise can significantly increase vulnerability to a hip flexor injury. This happens because muscles weaken and tighten without a consistent training stimulus, making them less resilient to sudden or intense movements. The risk is especially high when returning to a sport or activity at a pre-break intensity without proper conditioning.

In my professional opinion, a hip flexor strain is the most likely diagnosis.

A quad injury and a (sports) hernia are pretty distinct conditions. It shouidnt be that hard to differential diagnose. The fact that Terry and the team are seeking multiple opinions suggests some uncertainty and overlap.

A hip flexor strain (iliopsoas muscle) - which is located in the abdomen - would explain it.

 

[skinsinparadise]

In my professional opinion, a hip flexor strain is the most likely diagnosis.

A quad injury and a (sports) hernia are pretty distinct conditions. It shouidnt be that hard to differential diagnose. The fact that Terry and the team are seeking multiple opinions suggests some uncertainty and overlap.

A hip flexor strain (iliopsoas muscle) - which is located in the abdomen - would explain it.

If so hope the debate from the doctors isn't whether its grade 2 versus 3. Because if that tweet i posted is accurate, a 3, while rare is season ending.

 

[skinsinparadise]

 

[Die Hard]

If so hope the debate from the doctors isn't whether its grade 2 versus 3. Because if that tweet i posted is accurate, a 3, while rare is season ending.

A grade 3 muscle strain is a significant/full tear. I’ve never even heard of that happening for a hip flexor. Besides, he’d be having surgery already. We wouldnt be discussing his availability for this week or even a diagnosis.

From the media quotes, it’s sounding like grade 1. It sounds nagging… but more to do with his pain threshold and risk of further injury.

 

[Chris 44]

Great return but #20s attempt at a tackle was pretty bad, like he half assed it.

 

[skinsinparadise]

A grade 3 muscle strain is a significant/full tear. I’ve never even heard of that happening for a hip flexor. Besides, he’d be having surgery already. We wouldnt be discussing his availability for this week or even a diagnosis.

From the media quotes, it’s sounding like grade 1. It sounds nagging… but more to do with his pain threshold and risk of further injury.

Thanks, that's good to hear. I can deal with Terry missing a few weeks. I just hate the depth at outside WR where if he's out for a long time, they can succeed, especially versus this tough schedule.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Sabah, the Heinicke fanatic, but also doctor who calls into talk radio, text'd Sheehan that she knows one of the doctors who checked out Terry and his niche is sports hernias. And if that's what he's got he's out about 6 weeks.

How did she find out which doctor Terry is seeing? Because unless it was reported somewhere, her knowing seems awfully close to a privacy or Doctor/Patient confidentiality violation. I know she's not reporting anything on diagnosis, but if one of her friends said "hey, guess who visited me today" and then she told other people, I still think that's an ethically grey area...

Again, unless either Terry or the team said, "Terry is seeking an opinion from Dr. X." Which does happen a lot, I just haven't seen it.

 

[skinsinparadise]

How did she find out which doctor Terry is seeing? Because unless it was reported somewhere, her knowing seems awfully close to a privacy or Doctor/Patient confidentiality violation. I know she's not reporting anything on diagnosis, but if one of her friends said "hey, guess who visited me today" and then she told other people, I still think that's an ethically grey area...

Again, unless either Terry or the team said, "Terry is seeking an opinion from Dr. X." Which does happen a lot, I just haven't seen it.

The doctors name was part of the story, it was public.

 

[skinsinparadise]

 

[Die Hard]

His footwork with the bags is slow and terrible compared to previous videos Ive seen of him doing that drill.

 

[CuredFromBatteredFanSyndrome]

His footwork with the bags is slow and terrible compared to previous videos Ive seen of him doing that drill.

Right.

I’ve seen some “doesn’t look bad” takes and I’m like sure - it’s nice to see him on 2 feet without wincing. But those clips are in no way convincing me he’s not very limited.

 

[Dah-Dee]

June 2024 clip that includes same bag drill, for comparison:

 

[RedWolf]

Row 5